When the Hell is this team going to be sold?!?!

[Qman]

Two things. I'm not going to push the panic button because attendance was announced under 19K on a Thursday night early in the season. Winning, exciting football can cure some of the ills and should get it back to respectable numbers. I also don't want to speak ill of someone in poor health, especially when David Braley stepped up when no one else would. But it should also be noted that Braley approves the marketing budget for this football club and, dollar for dollar, I think the Whitecaps spend a hell of lot more to market themselves in this city than the Lions.

I think they may have over-estimated the "Buono effect" - that we would magically return to 2011 levels in fan interest because Wally was returning to the sideline. They also dithered on selling Jennings as the face of the franchise. It started out that way until contract demands changed the narrative to, "we'll just get to training camp and see who emerges then."


DH

I don't know enough about the Lions' marketing plans and budget to make comparisons. I know the club has significantly ramped up social media coverage with more videos, photos and articles on the team's website and on social media, in particular Twitter and Instagram. I know they're also distributing a lot more free and discounted tickets. For the preseason game, thousands of freebies were offered to season ticketholders. For the home opener, the team offered $5 kids tickets and seemed to heavily promote the offer through traditional and social media. For the Argo game, the team distributed hundreds, if not thousands, of tickets to Canadian Armed Forces members and first responders. The next game is being marketed as bobblehead night, which is usually a strong promotion. The team seems to be offering a lot more free and discounted tickets and promotional giveaways this year to get people in the stands.

Fan support seems to remain strong. Polls continue to show the Lions are a strong second to the Canucks in fan support among the general public in B.C., and TV viewership seems to back that up. I believe Skulsky has said recently that corporate sponsorship has never been stronger, and the Blitz section in The Province has been greatly expanded this year, with strong advertising support.

The problem, as I've maintained for several years, is that more fans are choosing to stay home and watch games on their own HD screens, without dealing with the cost and congestion of public transit, traffic and parking. This is a broader issue for sports teams in general but the Lions may be at the leading edge of the trend because of their unfavourable recent schedule, the fact that their core fan base is outside of the city of Vancouver and the generally high cost of living on the Lower Mainland, which leaves the average sports fan with much less disposable income than their counterparts in most Canadian cities.

thumbs up to this comment

- Lions have to recognize that the live event market is different from their 250,000 or so fans that watch their games every week on TV. I think they are starting to realize that they have to heavy market to the people around the stadium and skytrain route that want a good live event experience. It will take a few years for this to start to gain traction.

- like to see the $5 kids thing happen for hamilton and calgary. This group is very very hard to sell season tickets too (logistics of having kids & schedules,etc), but you still must develop them into fans and future season ticket holders. I know i'm in this group and its hard to make games.

- happy as a season ticket holder this year with all the sweeteners i get ... MUST continue for me to continue to be a season ticket holder at $720 or i will just watch on TV. Plus, most of the sweetners (free tickets, jerseys, discounts, etc) aren't really costing them anything.

- ticket pricing is not the issue for the lions -- $720 season ticket is reasonable, especially compared to canucks. Considering most of the high priced seats sell every game and the ones left are all the cheap $35 endzone tickets. $25 tickets didn't sell out. Ticket prices are not the issue. If they had a $199 season ticket --- it wouldn't sell out -- people don't like sitting in the endzone vs watching on TV

[David]

There is, IMO, a reluctance to implement a cohesive, unified and effective marketing plan.

If I was to poll a group Lower Mainland sports fans in an effort to have them name each club's marketing slogan, I am sure most know the Canucks' "We Are All Canucks," many could name the Whitecaps' "Be A Part Of The Best Sporting Atmosphere In Vancouver" (perhaps not verbatim as it's a little long winded; but the overall message is effective). The Lions? Really, how many could name "Pride Lives Here"? Yawn.


DH

[TheLionKing]

The $5.00 ticket for kids should be for the whole season rather than just the home opener. You don't rebuild your fan base on one game. It's an ongoing process. Lions fail to see the long term.

[Qman]

The $5.00 ticket for kids should be for the whole season rather than just the home opener. You don't rebuild your fan base on one game. It's an ongoing process. Lions fail to see the long term.

then some people won't buy season tickets. I agree the 4 summer game is ok, those seats will be unused. As well, we all know the fall games have 5000+ more fans than the summer games. Other issue is Edmonton and SSK games will likely be very close to sell outs unless we are worst than 4-10 by that stage in the season.

[Qman]

as well, the lions have to engage the local community in the false creek area. The bars, businesses, residents etc.
it too bad they their practice facility wasn't at Andy Livingstone park


Thats being said I think its the responsibility of all lionbackers out in vancouver to spread the message with in our personal network and work networks.
I know braley is credited to keeping this club afloat, but i think it was the 10,000-or-so season ticket holders that put down $500-700 every year that are they "real owners" of this team.

[jcalhoun]

The problem, as I've maintained for several years, is that more fans are choosing to stay home and watch games on their own HD screens, without dealing with the cost and congestion of public transit, traffic and parking. This is a broader issue for sports teams in general but the Lions may be at the leading edge of the trend because of their unfavourable recent schedule, the fact that their core fan base is outside of the city of Vancouver and the generally high cost of living on the Lower Mainland, which leaves the average sports fan with much less disposable income than their counterparts in most Canadian cities.

Some random rambles on a Saturday afternoon:

There have been several articles online of late noting the "fear of missing out" trend is being replaced by a desire to stay in. I know that when I look around at my neighbours/peers they all appear to be hunkering down. Even those who have disposable income (at least in theory) are using it to renovate their homes or put that much more against their mortgages. Obviously, I'm only viewing a select slice of suburbia, but I don't see a lot of people spending much on the entertainment budget.

* * * * *

Now let's be honest about a few things: everything, and I mean everything (outside of the actual players playing football) about a Lions game is awful. The "game day experience". Pffft. "What could we do to make the experience more engaging?" is not the question being asked. Skulsky asks, "how little can we spend, and how much can we squeeze out of the public." In fairness, that's what fellows like Skulsky, or corporate CEOs, or politicians ask. And they've squeezed the public right out of the stadium. But don't worry. He'll still get his bonus.

* * * * *

Nobody in the Lions organization has understood how the public thinks/behaves since Ackles.

* * * * *

It has got to be really concerning for the team that so many ST holders skipped the game the other night. That should tell you how tenuous the Lions' place is in the fans' estimation. Hundreds of fans were willing to throw away a product they'd paid handsomely for because it's so unpleasant to actually get to the stadium. And the production inside is so lackluster.

* * * * *

Disposable income and finances only explain so much. I've spent several times the value of prime seasons' tickets on books this year. I have the disposable income. What I don't have is a sense that the Lions offer value for money, so I don't go. There are lots of things the Lions could do to get people to view them differently, (and we've talked/written that to death here), but they never do any of them. So, whatever.

* * * * *

Maybe some positives will come out of an ever shrinking crowd, but I doubt it. The value of the franchise is certainly being driven down to the point where potential buyers are seeing room for growth. That didn't exist here before Skulsky took the helm.

* * * * *

Being a pessimist, I think things are only going to get worse. The only reason to have a TV and cable package is to watch news and live sports. But as more and more people drop cable, they're finding other things to do with their time. The challenge for the Lions is not the disparity between those who attend and those to watch on TV. The challenge is the growing chasm between those who are engaged and those who are indifferent.

Cheers,

James

[maxlion]

A winning team and better atmosphere may help attendance bounce back some but, barring major social changes, the days of Lions sellouts are gone forever. TV/streaming is too convenient, and the world financial and environmental outlook is too uncertain. The Canucks are more resistant to these pressures, but will be affected as well. Too bad the Lions are stuck in a facility built ina completely different social and economic environment. BC Place is a dinosaur. The province was crazy to sink so much money into it when they did.

[LakeLions]

The TSN money has been a big factor. Skulsky told 1040 before the season started that he wasn't too concerned about attendance because the TV money made the gate revenue are far smaller concern. I'm paraphrasing, but I was shocked. How do you say that?

But beyond that, I truly believe the great TV numbers have convinced the Lions people that they truly are a very popular team locally...and the result is they don't put the work in promoting the team. "We're big. Look at our TV numbers. People will come".

[David]

Skulsky told 1040 before the season started that he wasn't too concerned about attendance because the TV money made the gate revenue are far smaller concern.

But if I am the President of this football club, I am busting a nut to get as many butts in the seats as possible. You all remember what it was like here in 2008 with 37,000 orange clad fans in the stands. BC Place was an intimidating place to play. The Leos were basically up 7-0 before kick-off. There is virtually no home field advantage now, other than the Pacific time zone for Eastern clubs.

I'd take slightly less revenue on 35,000 tickets than 20,000 if I had to, if it meant giving the club a distinct 'home dome' advantage. I really believe the players feed off the energy of the crowd more so in football than other sports.


DH

[Sir Purrcival]

The problem, as I've maintained for several years, is that more fans are choosing to stay home and watch games on their own HD screens, without dealing with the cost and congestion of public transit, traffic and parking. This is a broader issue for sports teams in general but the Lions may be at the leading edge of the trend because of their unfavourable recent schedule, the fact that their core fan base is outside of the city of Vancouver and the generally high cost of living on the Lower Mainland, which leaves the average sports fan with much less disposable income than their counterparts in most Canadian cities.

Bing, Bing, Bing, We have a winner. Getting to and from games is a right, royal pain and a dammed expensive proposition as well. I like the game experience but as I get older, I find it tougher and tougher to psych myself up for it because of the extraneous factors. Navigating the congestion to get downtown (I seldom touch transit but having used it a few times after games, I found little to recommend it). Paying your suddenly inflated event parking rates where the cost goes from $10.00 all night suddenly to $25.00. Simply put and I think that many fit into this category, I don't really dig downtown at the best of times. It's stressful to get there, expensive to park, hard to get out after the event and basically impossible to find anyplace close to eat before the game that isn't chocked full of people. It just isn't my thing. I like the game, but the extras detract. While there are those that dig the downtown experience, I really believe that most don't. Most fans I believe would much rather be able to drive to the game in a reasonable amount of time, park relatively cheaply and walk to the game without passing the legions of people asking for money or feeling like they have just been extorted by Impark et al. At the end of the game, they want to get out and get home. Again, not easy depending on traffic, which parking lot you might have chosen (Vancouver Library anyone?) etc. Cost, inconvenience and time are major factors. When the competition is a Large Screen, high def TV with a Lazyboy and all the beer and pretzels you can chug while never have to burn a ml of fuel, you are going to have lots who opt for choice B, especially when 3 or 4 people can watch for the same price. Why would many do otherwise? The great street party atmosphere? The tailgates? I go for the games and as mostly a non drinker, the other stuff just doesn't matter in a positive way. I was never on board with the downtown placement of the stadium even way back when and the factors that I found to be negatives then have only increased with the population. It is a great stadium but when it is placed in the most expensive part of the city, well, $$$ speak volumes with many. There is no changing it, I'm resolved to it being what it is but with it being so, I only attend 2 or 3 games per year because anything more than that just feels like too much work.

[footballtom]

I don't think David Braley is the problem as much as Dennis Skulsky.

I agree Dennis has go to when this team is sold start fresh like when ackles came here.

[footballtom]

I don't necessarily think that they're "not getting it done."

It almost seems like this organization is in a holding pattern until it does sell, unfortunately in Vancouver the best way to get fans back is to put a winning product on the field. You can market and market and market the team, but until the results on the field improve, the attendance won't.

Does anyone know who some of the BC groups are that are interested in buying the team? I heard the name Aquilini tossed around(no thanks).

I disagree with that the lions were 2-0 beating two very good teams and they could not even break 20,000 thousand on Thursday . Please do not give me this excuse that it was a Thursday night crap . I remember years ago when the lions played the Calgary stampeders in a Thursday in the hot weather and had 34,000 .

People are not buying into the CFL and lions right now . They have not been given a good reason to support this team it is not about only winning look at the Vancouver Canadians the most profitable organization in town .

[footballtom]

Braley is the owner and as such, ultimately responsible for the performance of the team on and off the field. The buck stops with him.

This situation with the Lions attendence continuously dropping is edging dangerously closer and closer to what the Argos dealt with during Braley's ownership. You can argue his role with the Argos was simply to keep the team afloat until a better situation could be "arranged" for the team. But Braley dithered and overpriced the team; therefore keeping suitors at bay and exacerbating the tenuous relationship the Argos had with Toronto. Plus he kept even the most basic of supports from the team in a completely parsimonious and cynical manoeuvre to puff up his profits before ultimately departing the scene.

This holding pattern has got to progress to a sale. And I am becoming increasingly concerned Braley is simply going to wait and wait; holding the health of the BC Lions hostage and forcing the league to step in and sweeten the pot in order to get him to relinquish the team to new owners.

I agree the team will benefit immensely from local ownership and not some form of absentee landlord. The Argos had MLSE on hand as saviour; either for good or bad depending on your view but at least they are a Toronto-based brand working with a Toronto product in their home market.

Let's get this done before the team rots on the vine.

I totally agree Ackles is probably turning over in his Grave ( God Bless his soul) if you look at the Argos before the sale they had some excellent teams but there were still empty seats . this is going to become almost like it was in the mid 90's were this organization will be pushed to the limit again were it could fold or move . it would not surprise me if either happened.

[footballtom]

Didn't I read that Skulsky stated the season ticket sales are up this year ? If so, are the new ticket holders masquerading as empty seats ?

at least 1/3 of the season ticket holders didn't show up for thursday night game, just watched it on TV ... stop scheduling thursday night games or they will do it permanently .. its too hard to fight traffic now.

the traffic can be just as bad on a Saturday or Friday night ( which Friday night games have been in the 30,000 before. ) . no excuses on the day of the week .

[footballtom]

Two things. I'm not going to push the panic button because attendance was announced under 19K on a Thursday night early in the season. Winning, exciting football can cure some of the ills and should get it back to respectable numbers. I also don't want to speak ill of someone in poor health, especially when David Braley stepped up when no one else would. But it should also be noted that Braley approves the marketing budget for this football club and, dollar for dollar, I think the Whitecaps spend a hell of lot more to market themselves in this city than the Lions.

I think they may have over-estimated the "Buono effect" - that we would magically return to 2011 levels in fan interest because Wally was returning to the sideline. They also dithered on selling Jennings as the face of the franchise. It started out that way until contract demands changed the narrative to, "we'll just get to training camp and see who emerges then."


DH

I don't know enough about the Lions' marketing plans and budget to make comparisons. I know the club has significantly ramped up social media coverage with more videos, photos and articles on the team's website and on social media, in particular Twitter and Instagram. I know they're also distributing a lot more free and discounted tickets. For the preseason game, thousands of freebies were offered to season ticketholders. For the home opener, the team offered $5 kids tickets and seemed to heavily promote the offer through traditional and social media. For the Argo game, the team distributed hundreds, if not thousands, of tickets to Canadian Armed Forces members and first responders. The next game is being marketed as bobblehead night, which is usually a strong promotion. The team seems to be offering a lot more free and discounted tickets and promotional giveaways this year to get people in the stands.

Fan support seems to remain strong. Polls continue to show the Lions are a strong second to the Canucks in fan support among the general public in B.C., and TV viewership seems to back that up. I believe Skulsky has said recently that corporate sponsorship has never been stronger, and the Blitz section in The Province has been greatly expanded this year, with strong advertising support.

The problem, as I've maintained for several years, is that more fans are choosing to stay home and watch games on their own HD screens, without dealing with the cost and congestion of public transit, traffic and parking. This is a broader issue for sports teams in general but the Lions may be at the leading edge of the trend because of their unfavourable recent schedule, the fact that their core fan base is outside of the city of Vancouver and the generally high cost of living on the Lower Mainland, which leaves the average sports fan with much less disposable income than their counterparts in most Canadian cities.

thumbs up to this comment

- Lions have to recognize that the live event market is different from their 250,000 or so fans that watch their games every week on TV. I think they are starting to realize that they have to heavy market to the people around the stadium and skytrain route that want a good live event experience. It will take a few years for this to start to gain traction.

- like to see the $5 kids thing happen for hamilton and calgary. This group is very very hard to sell season tickets too (logistics of having kids & schedules,etc), but you still must develop them into fans and future season ticket holders. I know i'm in this group and its hard to make games.

- happy as a season ticket holder this year with all the sweeteners i get ... MUST continue for me to continue to be a season ticket holder at $720 or i will just watch on TV. Plus, most of the sweetners (free tickets, jerseys, discounts, etc) aren't really costing them anything.

- ticket pricing is not the issue for the lions -- $720 season ticket is reasonable, especially compared to canucks. Considering most of the high priced seats sell every game and the ones left are all the cheap $35 endzone tickets. $25 tickets didn't sell out. Ticket prices are not the issue. If they had a $199 season ticket --- it wouldn't sell out -- people don't like sitting in the endzone vs watching on TV

The only way to fix it is black out games again unless they have 90 percent filled. Ackles would still be doing it . the only thing is HD does not allow black outs. they are having some troubles with this in the NFL too with some teams . CFL is not the only league taking a hit on this.