2016 All Things Lions Marketing & Promotions

[Alputt]

NEWS1130SPORTS #BCLions have only sold 18,000 tickets for the Blue Bombers game tomorrow night. Owner David Braley admits he's concerned.

But apparently not concerned enough to make any changes to the business side of the operations or make any significant changes to the 2017 ticket pricing except a small increase for premium seats.

So potentially one of the smallest crowds of the season tomorrow night for one of the biggest games. It's getting depressing going to BC Place and seeing so many empty seats game after game.

It has been depressing for some time. The time for action (never mind actually expressing concern) should have been weeks ago when it was glaringly obvious to everyone on this forum the excellent form of the team isn't enough to get people in BC Place.

Personally, I have written off the attendance improving this year. I would be ecstatic to be shown otherwise but it has gone far beyond the tipping point for this current operational regime to rectify.

I am also on hiatus on griping about attendance, we have 3 games left, hopefully 4, the time to right the ship this year has passed. I was optimistic early on about the team and the fanbase, the team has been greatly improved, the casual fanbase has let me down.

Who knows the last couple games of the year with playoff implications could provide an uptick but we will have a 20,000 attendance average this year so Braley better wake up and either sell or clean house and bring in fresh blood and ideas in the office this off-season.

For now I just hope the team does well in the crucial final weeks and going to focus on the positive.

[Alputt]

Any chance tonight's "Blackout event" is to launch a new Adidas 3rd jersey in grey or black like they did with the gun metals a few years back?

I doubt it, but it would be awesome if that happened and they were just holding out until now...

[jcalhoun]

Hey all,

So I've recently begun a new job in Vancouver and have to commute every day from Port Coquitlam. Whining about traffic is an over-indulged Vancouver past time, but twice this week my drive in was in excess of two hours because of accidents on the No.1 Hwy (--on a good day it's 45 mins). With Friday's storm, it took me 2 hours and fifty minutes to drive from Poco to my girlfriend's workplace on Georgia near Stanley Park, then to my job just across the Burrard Street Bridge. At normal highway speeds, I can get between the overpasses at Brunette and Galardi in 2 minutes or so; yesterday it took 37 and I never got out of first gear. All day I had cancelled appointments/meetings as people decided to cut work early to "get ahead of traffic."

I've said this before here: there's an old adage that goes "amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk logistics."

The Lions' dwindling attendance is due to a host of interconnected factors that have been discussed here at length. But the logistics of getting people in/out of town is, I believe, the single biggest obstacle.

The Lions cannot change Vancouver traffic, but if they want to increase attendance they need to make the logistics of moving people into/out of Vancouver a primary consideration. I don't think it's even on their radar.

They're stuck with the schedule for this year, but if they want more of the 1.8 million people that live in the GVRD outside of Vancouver proper to attend next year, they need to make it easier for us to get to games. And the only thing that will make that easier is playing on weekend afternoons. The drive into Vancouver is a breeze on weekends. Parking is cheaper. Transit is less crowded. It's win-win-win in terms of ease of moving people, and yet.....we have Friday night games where you have to battle rush hour. Saturday night games where you have to compete with every other event for parking. It just doesn't make sense.

As to the TV contract, I'm sure TSN would rather see the Lions playing consistently at 4 Pacific (7 Eastern) on Saturdays than on Fridays at 10pm Eastern. As to the FNF franchise, I'm sure a compelling argument could made that it just doesn't work for games on the West Coast.

Finally, there is another critical reason for the Lions to address this issue: it's only going to get worse. Real estate prices are going to continue to push many families into the suburbs further and further away from the stadium. If the team doesn't begin to seriously address the logistical elements of game attendance that are under their control then the team will continue it's downward slide.

Cheers,

James

[Matt Baker]

Hey all,

So I've recently begun a new job in Vancouver and have to commute every day from Port Coquitlam. Whining about traffic is an over-indulged Vancouver past time, but twice this week my drive in was in excess of two hours because of accidents on the No.1 Hwy (--on a good day it's 45 mins). With Friday's storm, it took me 2 hours and fifty minutes to drive from Poco to my girlfriend's workplace on Georgia near Stanley Park, then to my job just across the Burrard Street Bridge. At normal highway speeds, I can get between the overpasses at Brunette and Galardi in 2 minutes or so; yesterday it took 37 and I never got out of first gear. All day I had cancelled appointments/meetings as people decided to cut work early to "get ahead of traffic."

I've said this before here: there's an old adage that goes "amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk logistics."

The Lions' dwindling attendance is due to a host of interconnected factors that have been discussed here at length. But the logistics of getting people in/out of town is, I believe, the single biggest obstacle.

The Lions cannot change Vancouver traffic, but if they want to increase attendance they need to make the logistics of moving people into/out of Vancouver a primary consideration. I don't think it's even on their radar.

They're stuck with the schedule for this year, but if they want more of the 1.8 million people that live in the GVRD outside of Vancouver proper to attend next year, they need to make it easier for us to get to games. And the only thing that will make that easier is playing on weekend afternoons. The drive into Vancouver is a breeze on weekends. Parking is cheaper. Transit is less crowded. It's win-win-win in terms of ease of moving people, and yet.....we have Friday night games where you have to battle rush hour. Saturday night games where you have to compete with every other event for parking. It just doesn't make sense.

As to the TV contract, I'm sure TSN would rather see the Lions playing consistently at 4 Pacific (7 Eastern) on Saturdays than on Fridays at 10pm Eastern. As to the FNF franchise, I'm sure a compelling argument could made that it just doesn't work for games on the West Coast.

Finally, there is another critical reason for the Lions to address this issue: it's only going to get worse. Real estate prices are going to continue to push many families into the suburbs further and further away from the stadium. If the team doesn't begin to seriously address the logistical elements of game attendance that are under their control then the team will continue it's downward slide.

Cheers,

James

Jcalhoun, this is a very well summarized description. Traffic/transit is probably the number one thing I hear from people as the reason they don't come out to our games.. This has to be the only major city in the world that doesn't have a freeway connect to it's downtown core.. Mind boggling

When you combine the fact TSN has done a great job with the brand and packaging their broadcasts, that adds a whole lot more appeal to staying at home.. And then nights like last night where you have the Blue Jays in the ALCS. My dad was initially excited to come to the football game, but once the Jays advanced he opted to stay home and watch both games.. No doubt an attractive option for many others as well..

Agree with the fact more afternoon games might be the cure for what ails attendance problems.. A big issue, in my opinion, is the fact we are the only team that plays in the Pacific Time Zone automatically makes us the go to option for the second half of doubleheaders.. We were in Edmonton three weeks ago and the 8:00 local start there I think hurt the Eskimos' walk up.. They announced 26,000 and change in attendance, but I would venture a guess it was less than that..

[Ravi]

While all of that may be true, the Canucks are not winning (at least not yet) and entertaining like the Lions are. Yet the Leos are playing to 73% capacity of the Lower Bowl (assuming their announced attendance is accurate). That would be the equivalent 13,000-14,000 in Rogers Arena. Things haven't fallen anywhere near that far for the hockey club.

Braley is concerned now? He should have been concerned over a month ago, when the club came home to face the Als post Labour Day (with a record of 7-3) to an announced crowd of 18,107.

That's when I knew things were not just trending in the wrong direction, they were dire. I can't recall a BC Lions win-loss record having virtually no impact at the gate, with the possible exception of that 1999 Greg Mohns mirage team that went 13-5. They averaged 22,432, with a high of 28,431 (at that time both upper and lower bowls were open).


DH

And who was the owner back in 1999? That would be the same David Braley. Bob Ackles saved Braley's bacon for several years but there is ample proof that Braley has no idea how to grow any CFL franchise without a Bob Ackles at his disposal. Braley needs to sell this franchise and it needed to happen yesterday!

[JohnHenry]

Hey all,

So I've recently begun a new job in Vancouver and have to commute every day from Port Coquitlam. Whining about traffic is an over-indulged Vancouver past time, but twice this week my drive in was in excess of two hours because of accidents on the No.1 Hwy (--on a good day it's 45 mins). With Friday's storm, it took me 2 hours and fifty minutes to drive from Poco to my girlfriend's workplace on Georgia near Stanley Park, then to my job just across the Burrard Street Bridge. At normal highway speeds, I can get between the overpasses at Brunette and Galardi in 2 minutes or so; yesterday it took 37 and I never got out of first gear. All day I had cancelled appointments/meetings as people decided to cut work early to "get ahead of traffic."

I've said this before here: there's an old adage that goes "amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk logistics."

The Lions' dwindling attendance is due to a host of interconnected factors that have been discussed here at length. But the logistics of getting people in/out of town is, I believe, the single biggest obstacle.

The Lions cannot change Vancouver traffic, but if they want to increase attendance they need to make the logistics of moving people into/out of Vancouver a primary consideration. I don't think it's even on their radar.

They're stuck with the schedule for this year, but if they want more of the 1.8 million people that live in the GVRD outside of Vancouver proper to attend next year, they need to make it easier for us to get to games. And the only thing that will make that easier is playing on weekend afternoons. The drive into Vancouver is a breeze on weekends. Parking is cheaper. Transit is less crowded. It's win-win-win in terms of ease of moving people, and yet.....we have Friday night games where you have to battle rush hour. Saturday night games where you have to compete with every other event for parking. It just doesn't make sense.

As to the TV contract, I'm sure TSN would rather see the Lions playing consistently at 4 Pacific (7 Eastern) on Saturdays than on Fridays at 10pm Eastern. As to the FNF franchise, I'm sure a compelling argument could made that it just doesn't work for games on the West Coast.

Finally, there is another critical reason for the Lions to address this issue: it's only going to get worse. Real estate prices are going to continue to push many families into the suburbs further and further away from the stadium. If the team doesn't begin to seriously address the logistical elements of game attendance that are under their control then the team will continue it's downward slide.

Cheers,

James

Vancouver made the decision not to become another L.A. back in the sixties, unfortunately they have about the same road system today, despite the area population more than doubling. I think the city's braintrust was hoping cars would eventually go away and everyone would just stay on their kibbutz and grow flowers. But the economy kept growing (largely through government spending of borrowed money which they've never paid back.) With the coming of electric and driverless cars, private vehicles seem here to stay but we're still stuck with our 1950's road network.

To survive with a stadium in downtown Vancouver, the Lions need to cater to fans who can walk, cycle, cab or take transit to their games. Unfortunately that eliminates many fans from south of the Fraser, unless they can organize a "Fast Bus" network to ferry fans to the games...but even busses will meet the same obstructed roadways when entering Vancouver (or Burnaby, PoCo, New West, North Van, Langley and now White Rock too.)

There have been many proposals to improve Vancouver's traffic. In 1968 the transportation committee proposed a tunnel under False Creek and Burrard Inlet, linking Kingsway/Main St. with the Hwy 1 in North Van. If this link was built it would have drastically reduced the carbon output from billions and billions of vehicles idling at stoplights at Georgia/Burrard trying to get to North Van, Horseshoe Bay and Whister. The projected cost of this tunnel and hwy was a whopping $100 million in 1968...which accounting for inflation would pay for about 5 km's of Skytrain track today.

[David]

Traffic, schedule, Blue Jays, cost of living, stadium configuration.....these are all "symptoms" (better known as excuses) for challenges at the gate. The "cause" or reason is a failure to connect with the fan base; to make each game a "must see" live event.

How is it that thousands of football fans don't mind lining up at the Peace Arch border crossing and driving 2 hours south to catch a Seahawks game in the pouring rain? Or that the Vanouver Canadians can get regularly get 6,000+ people through the turnstiles despite playing single A baseball, having a :500 record, and most of those 6,000 fans hard-pressed to name a single player?!? I believe the Lions have conditioned themselves into buying into the excuses, instead of tackling the underlying issues.

How the Lions make this connection is on them. With the team they have and the population in the Lower Mainland, they should regularly be drawing 24,000 - 25,000 - even factoring in the above mentioned symptoms. I keep reading that the Lions fan base is moving further out, being replaced by immigrants with no connection to the sport. Bullcrap. There are hundreds of thousands of Canadian born residents living in Vancouver proper. If fans are moving further away, then the club has to find a way to cultivate new fans in Yaletown, Kitsilano, Main St., Gastown etc. The people are there; hell, the Whitecaps are even outdrawing the Lions. It's on the Lions' brain trust to figure out a way reach out to new fans (they're not going to do it with the current ticket pricing structure, I'll give you that much).


DH

[Matt Baker]

Traffic, schedule, Blue Jays, cost of living, stadium configuration.....these are all "symptoms" (better known as excuses) for challenges at the gate. The "cause" or reason is a failure to connect with the fan base; to make each game a "must see" live event.

How is it that thousands of football fans don't mind lining up at the Peace Arch border crossing and driving 2 hours south to catch a Seahawks game in the pouring rain? Or that the Vanouver Canadians can get regularly get 6,000+ people through the turnstiles despite playing single A baseball, having a :500 record, and most of those 6,000 fans hard-pressed to name a single player?!? I believe the Lions have conditioned themselves into buying into the excuses, instead of tackling the underlying issues.

How the Lions make this connection is on them. With the team they have and the population in the Lower Mainland, they should regularly be drawing 24,000 - 25,000 - even factoring in the above mentioned symptoms. I keep reading that the Lions fan base is moving further out, being replaced by immigrants with no connection to the sport. Bullcrap. There are hundreds of thousands of Canadian born residents living in Vancouver proper. If fans are moving further away, then the club has to find a way to cultivate new fans in Yaletown, Kitsilano, Main St., Gastown etc. The people are there; hell, the Whitecaps are even outdrawing the Lions. It's on the Lions' brain trust to figure out a way reach out to new fans (they're not going to do it with the current ticket pricing structure, I'll give you that much).


DH

The NFL experience is an event. Not just the game. In Seattle, and other good NFL markets, it typically starts at 7 or 8am with tailgating right outside or gatherings inside the nearby bars and restaurants. I go down once a year to see my 49ers get smacked and I am always amazed about how well people make a day of it. Three weeks ago, we left my buddy's brother's house ( where we were staying in nearby Mountlake Terrace), parked the car and was at Henry's Tavern across the street before the early 10am games even started. And it was already packed. Now they even open Safeco Field's "The Pen" bar on Seahawk game days which gives fans another option to pre-drink. And there is also the pre-game tailgate itself at the Exhibition Centre. Plenty of options outside of the game itself. I could be wrong, but I think it may now even be at the point where a few even go down without game tickets and just party.. To answer your question, that, along with the fact Seahawks games
have become more "trendy" in recent years is the reason many are willing to drive down and wait in lines etc..

The Canadians are an interesting study.. They really benefit from the fact it is "Short Season" and starts in late June and wraps up by Labour Day. The best weather this city gets is in that 2.5 month span.. When they started winning championships and becoming a hotter ticket, the inevitable questions of "Could we ever get Triple A back?" started to be asked, but the fact of the matter is what they have right now is purrfect. It's kind of a "less is more" type thing. As long as they stay in short season and don't go back to dealing with rainouts/cold weather in April and May, they should continue to do well. They have also really sold the experience, and as far as I know, have not raised their ticket prices at all in the last 6 or 7 years. Cheap, affordable and the short season are big selling points. It's a credit to Jake Kerr/Jeff Mooney/Andy Dunn/Rob Fai et all..

[louharris74]

Long time viewer of the site, probably daily. Had to post on this thread after going to the game last Friday. My son, my brother, myself and a good buddy usually go to 2 or 3 games each year. Last Friday was our first game this year, unfortunately. Lots of family stuff got in the way up till now.

I agree with many of the other posters as to reasons why attendance is lagging. No doubt the experience at home in front of the TV is probably No. 1. No doubt that ticket prices, especially for the endzones and the prime Goal line to 20 yard line seats not taken by season ticket holders, are way over priced.

However, for me there is 1 other BIG problem. I cannot stand watching games from the lower deck from behind the goal lines. Luckily for the Winnipeg game we were able to move after half time to some prime seats near the 40 yard line, about 20 rows up. Awesome. Made us realize how much we missed our previous favourite place to sit ... anywhere in the upper deck between the 20 yard lines.

I (and all of my friends) think it is a SERIOUS mistake not have at least one side of BC Place open in the upper deck, say between the 20 yard lines, even if just the first 15 rows or so. Those are some of the best seats in the house and they are not even available to buy. Football is not soccer. It is meant to be viewed from above. I would gladly pay $50 to $55 per seat to sit up there. Great view points of the field, of the big screen, nice and bright, sound carries up there. And I don't buy the lack of atmosphere crap if you don't limit the seating to the lower bowl. If having those seats available gets another 3 or 4 k folks in the stands the atmosphere will be way better.

I sure hope Skulsky and company monitor this site. They are screwing up big time.

And a question ... what happened to Matt Baker doing the in-house play-by-play ? He did a really good job compared to whoever is doing it now.

[David]

Saturday's game should provide a good barometer to see where the Vancouver sporting public lines up with the Lions. Irrespective of the fact the club has lost 3 of 4 (even though they've been exciting games) and leaving aside ticket prices, it's a 100% "excuse free" game. Consider this:

* Saturday is supposed to be a decent day - a mixture of sun and clouds, so no one can say the weather is holding them back; that they'd rather stay in.
* Blue Jays have been eliminated, so they don't have to go head-to-head. One less talking point in the media as well, so they can talk more football.
* Canucks are on the road (they play that evening in Los Angeles).
* Whitecaps play Sunday.
* For everyone that complains about traffic, this game is on Saturday afternoon - a 4:00pm start time. Traffic should not be an issue.
* This is a pivotal game against a Western rival with playoff implications.
* Saturday afternoon also allows Island fans to make the trip over - and make it back 'same day' if they choose.
* The game also features 5,000 Solly bobbleheads. Game sponsor Save-On Foods will also be handing out 499 $5 gift cards & ONE $500 gift card.

Just looking at the Ticketmaster seating chart, it would appear that this game has the makings of our biggest gate of the season thus far (which isn't say much, I know). Leos games continue to be strong on TSN - last Friday's game against the Bombers led all CFL games with 565,000 viewers. At least interest in the club is there.


DH

[Honour Dewalt]

I agree with David that many of these "reasons" are just excuses.
How many people always said the stadium was the problem?

The stadium gets an awesome upgrade, and now it's the traffic.

Excuses and reasons for not going will always be said by someone, but we weren't hearing those in the days when Ackles was turning things around.

The Lions consistently raised ticket prices year after year over the past five years. I was a season ticket holder from 2011-14 or so, and couldn't understand why my only incentive to renew early was to maintain the price I paid that year, and not have my prices go up. I found that insulting and inquired about it, but was not satisfied with their response, so I cancelled.

I've been a never die Lions fan since the late 80's, either watching or going to every game. They had me as a ST holder, but with bad judgment the lost even me. Now I go to games when I can find friends who are interested.

I don't ever use the excuse of the traffic or stadium. When the stadium is packed and lively, there's not much better.

[CardiacKid]

Or that the Vanouver Canadians can get regularly get 6,000+ people through the turnstiles despite playing single A baseball, having a :500 record, and most of those 6,000 fans hard-pressed to name a single player?!? I believe the Lions have conditioned themselves into buying into the excuses, instead of tackling the underlying issues.

DH

I strongly believe the Leo's would be very well served to examine how the Vancouver Canadians market themselves; I think there are numerous lessons to be learned there.

But unfortunately, the operational side of the team seems ridiculously thin skinned when it comes to hearing about flagging attendance. BC Lions Den pawdcast gets blackballed and Lowell Ullrich, hardly a firebrand when it comes to offering his opinion, gets frozen out because he wrote about dipping attendance. Do they wish to cut off their nose to spite their face?

[J5V]

Hard to believe that guarantee win night against the Riders was only three years ago in 2013 and over 37000 were at BC Place and it was considered a bit of a disappointment. Now the Lions are down to about half of that crowd. The sad thing is so much of this has been self-inflicted with a crazy ticket structure that has done a lot of damage. So much of what it's going to take to get people back would not have been necessary if a little common sense had been exercised.

[CardiacKid]

I don't know what the general consensus is amongst the Lionbackers who live on the lower mainland but this Vancouver Island fan loves the weekend afternoon kickoffs. And based on the the number of Lions hats, jerseys, shirts and hoodies I am seeing on the ferry, a lot of island fans feel the same.
Maybe the Lions brain trust needs to lobby for more Saturday afternoon games?!?!

[almo89]

I don't know what the general consensus is amongst the Lionbackers who live on the lower mainland but this Vancouver Island fan loves the weekend afternoon kickoffs. And based on the the number of Lions hats, jerseys, shirts and hoodies I am seeing on the ferry, a lot of island fans feel the same.
Maybe the Lions brain trust needs to lobby for more Saturday afternoon games?!?!

Seems to work today. Crowd looks good. Surprisingly I saw a lot of ppl wearing Lions gear at Coquitlam centre today. Hasn't been the case all season long