2016 All Things Lions Marketing & Promotions

[Hambone]

If you close it they will leave? I loved my upper bowl front row tix. On the cheap. Not saying they could reopen now that the damage is done... But how? And why?

I talked to a lady in Kamloops during TC this year. She now works for Rocky Mountaineer but was with BCPlace last year. She indicated BCP was pushing for the Lions to go lower bowl only due to the costs associate with staffing security, concessions and post game cleanup. According to my Lions account rep closing the upper bowl displaced only 150 season ticket holders.

[MikeAK]

I was given the same survey and for the question, "On a scale from 0-10 where 0 is not at all satisfied and 10 is very satisfied how would you rate your overall experience with this game?" I rated the experience a "6" out of 10, with the comment:

I am a DIEHARD Lions fan, but from the opening whistle, the team didn't seem as hyped about this game as I was. Seeing half the seats empty at the start must have been demoralizing for the players; this could have been why they were so flat. I also took points away for the team being out-coached and not making adjustments, and poor refereeing (again). That should NOT have been "roughing the passer" on the fake punt.

"And please rate this event in terms of overall value for the money. Was it excellent, very good, good, fair or poor value for your money?" I said "Good." Hard to offer anything higher after that pasting, as they didn't ask games in general, they asked about that event (game) in particular. Still, I have Coaches Sideline seats and believe it's good value and don't think concession prices are out of line.

I do think there is a very large chasm though between what value a Lions hardcore like me places on my ticket versus what value a casual fan in this town places on it.


DH

The Lions don't seem to be able to make the distinction between casual and hard core fans and don't seem to have a plan to deal with it.

Bingo. The die hards have always supported the team and will continue to do so. They haven't been able to convert casuals to die hards or at least convice the casuals to come in more often for a good night out at BC Place. Instead we've seen a downward trend where the casuals are spending money on other things. Like I've been saying all week. Last game was a first place show down and there has been barely any hype and promo from the team. It's still the winning team will sell tickets attitude. Well we have a winning team, but the attendance is still poor.

Die hards will always support the team, I agree. But just because A person isn't able to go to every game doesn't make them a casual. I consider myself a diehard and have been following and supporting the team since I was a child. The issue is that I can no longer realistically afford to go to as many games as I use to because I'm not a local. I have to travel into games which adds to the cost. I know that isn't a Lion's problem but They use to have that in mind but have lost it. No longer are the Lions B.C's team and have very much become Vancouver's team. Closing the upper bowl didn't help. I could swallow my frustration when the upper was open because I could get good seats and make it worth my while. Now I have to sit in the corner and watch half the game on the big screen or pay $200 for me and my partner to sit where we'd like. No Thanks. I would rather watch it in HD than spend $400 going to a game.

[Hambone]

For me every season is an investment of approximately $5000 to $6000; $720 for my season seat and the rest in travel and accommodations. I make most of the games but no all. Usually fluctuates between 6 and 8. This year I will make 7 plus hopefully a playoff game. Quite honestly out of all the cost factors the price of my Coaches Sideline seat provides the best value. Whenever I hear the complaint about ticket prices being too high it sounds like there is an expectation that the
Lions should be subsidizing fans to make up for just about everything from high costs of concessions, parking, transit, tolls, fuel and just the general cost of living in Canada's most expensive city that leaves Lower Mainlanders with the least amount of disposable income in the country.

[maxlion]

They have an aging absentee owner and a president with one foot in retirement. Is it any surprise that their marketing efforts seem half-hearted or out of touch?

Add to this changing demographics, cost of living, HDTV, competition from more global brands/sports, and you get low attendance and a failing brand. It's going to take a lot to fix this mess. The future is very uncertain for the Lions and potentially the league if the Lions and Argos (not to mention the Als who are also in trouble) continue to falter.

Edit: And for more doom and gloom, illegal streaming is going to decimate cable channels like TSN. C'est la vie!

[CardiacKid]

They have an aging absentee owner and a president with one foot in retirement. Is it any surprise that their marketing efforts seem half-hearted or out of touch?!

I must have missed something in regards to Braley selling the team. Last year we heard from Braley the team was on the market (after much conjecture if it was or wasn't) and that a number of potential number of serious suitors had been lined up, ready to make the team theirs.

Now the team is apparently off the market? But there is still a short list of active buyers ready to jump in when Braley does pull the trigger. I am no business man but this seems to be a really weird way to attract a committed buyer.

So for sale or not for sale?

Regardless, I totally appreciate what Braley has done for the Leo's but the time has come for new owners. The unique set challenges the team faces I feel are best dealt with by local ownership with fresh ideas.

[B.C.FAN]

The team has never been on the market according to Braley and Skulsky, and won't be put on the market during this season.

[SammyGreene]

They have an aging absentee owner and a president with one foot in retirement. Is it any surprise that their marketing efforts seem half-hearted or out of touch?

Add to this changing demographics, cost of living, HDTV, competition from more global brands/sports, and you get low attendance and a failing brand. It's going to take a lot to fix this mess. The future is very uncertain for the Lions and potentially the league if the Lions and Argos (not to mention the Als who are also in trouble) continue to falter.

Edit: And for more doom and gloom, illegal streaming is going to decimate cable channels like TSN. C'est la vie!

Great post maxlion. You nailed all the Lions problems in a nutshell. If the team is not for sale and Braley is back to full health as he suggested this past week then it's time to send Skulsky on his way. After all, he resigned back on April 1. Sadly that likely won't happen anytime soon.

The Lions business model is broken. They actually think winning is going to fix everything. It won't be filling those hundreds of empty $83 seats around the 20-25 yard line that the 25-35 age demographic trying to make ends meet in the Lower Mainland will never shell out for.

[JohnHenry]

They have an aging absentee owner and a president with one foot in retirement. Is it any surprise that their marketing efforts seem half-hearted or out of touch?!

I must have missed something in regards to Braley selling the team. Last year we heard from Braley the team was on the market (after much conjecture if it was or wasn't) and that a number of potential number of serious suitors had been lined up, ready to make the team theirs.

Now the team is apparently off the market? But there is still a short list of active buyers ready to jump in when Braley does pull the trigger. I am no business man but this seems to be a really weird way to attract a committed buyer.

So for sale or not for sale?

Regardless, I totally appreciate what Braley has done for the Leo's but the time has come for new owners. The unique set challenges the team faces I feel are best dealt with by local ownership with fresh ideas.

For starters, Braley would never sell the team during the season or even speculate about it in the media. He isn't desperate for the money and may not sell the Lions at all. It was recently mentioned that Braley's son is a big football fan and may have interest in the team. The trend is for joint hockey/football sports/entertainment operations...like in Calgary, Ottawa & Toronto. Would the Lions generate some summer income for the Aquilini's, co-marketed with the Canucks? Despite most CFL teams being profitable or at least break-even propositions, they aren't that sexy as an investment. For example, the league is ignored by Forbes franchise valuations because they are Canadian only, I guess?

[CardiacKid]

The team has never been on the market according to Braley and Skulsky, and won't be put on the market during this season.

Is that what Braley says now? Because his memory seems awfully selective. Either that or the Globe and Mail reporter who wrote the following piece last year was extremely mistaken.....

"With B.C. Lions for sale, long-time owner starts assessing potential buyers"

"The process to sell the B.C. Lions is under way, with 19 parties having expressed interest and long-time owner David Braley beginning to assess potential buyers.mBraley, 74, wants to sell to someone who will take at least a majority stake in the team and will be a steward for the club in British Columbia. He doesn’t want to sell to a group in which each member holds a small fraction. “The most important thing is they look after the club as part of the community,” Braley said in an interview on Wednesday, from his office at his auto-parts company Orlick Industries Ltd. in Hamilton.

Of the 19 parties interested in the Lions, 14 are local, with others located in Calgary, Edmonton, California, Las Vegas and Florida. Braley will first focus on the local 14. Braley said he didn’t know how long the process would extend. “That may take all this year. It may take next year. Who knows? We will just start to sort it now, with the interested parties.” Braley has owned the Lions since early 1997. He had previously owned the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, from 1987 to 1990. As Braley approaches his 75th birthday next May, he is stepping away from his direct stake in the CFL. Earlier this year, Braley sold the Toronto Argonauts to Bell Canada and Larry Tanenbaum’s Kilmer Group, a deal that is set to close at the end of this year. Braley has been a key backer of the Canadian football and his acquisition of the Argos in early 2010 was a financial rescue job. Valuation will be a key question in the sale of the Lions. In 2014, Braley floated a figure of $40-million for the club, which is considered by some observers to be high. The CFL is on stronger financial footing these days, buoyed especially by a five-year television deal with TSN worth about $40-million, running through to 2018. New Argos co-owner Bell Media owns TSN. The Lions have also benefited from holding the Grey Cup twice in recent years, 2011 and 2014, at BC Place, with a capacity of 50,000-plus. The Lions, however, are a team in transition. B.C. has made the playoffs in each of the 19 seasons Braley has owned the team but this year’s 7-11 record is the worst of Braley’s tenure. The Lions were beaten up by the Calgary Stampeders in the West semi-final last Sunday. B.C. last won a Grey Cup in 2011 and had the league’s best record in 2012, but lost in the West final – and has slid each year since. Attendance has also slid. The recent peak at BC Place was about 30,000 a game in 2012 and has fallen each year. This season was the worse, falling to about 21,000 from 28,000.
Braley’s early years as owner, in the late 1990s, saw average attendance below 20,000. It began to turn higher when Wally Buono took over as coach in 2003 and sparked a run of success. Buono’s future as the Lions general manager, through this past difficult season, has been debated by fans. He retired as coach after the Grey Cup win in 2011 and this year’s 7-11 is his second-worst season as a CFL coach or GM, ahead of only his last year in Calgary in 2002 when his team went 6-12.
Buono, 65, has one year left on his contract. Braley on Wednesday expressed confidence in Buono. “We understand each other,” Braley said. “He’s still as good a football man as I know. There’s four or five coaches or general managers in the league I really think are superb – and he’s one of them.” On Wednesday at Lions headquarters in the Vancouver suburbs, Buono spoke to reporters, to reflect on the past year and to look ahead. Pressed about his future and the future of coach Jeff Tedford, Buono said nothing has been decided yet. He plans to sit down with Braley and team president Dennis Skulsky soon.
“You don’t think we’re frustrated with all of this?” said Buono near the end of a half-hour session.
The Lions, despite their record, had as many divisional all-stars as the Stampeders, eight. The Lions also have a promising young quarterback, Jonathon Jennings. “The distance between being a good club and being an outstanding club isn’t all that much,” said Buono, wearing the Order of Canada pin, which he was awarded earlier this fall, on his suit jacket lapel.
Skulsky, like Buono, has one year left on his contract. As the sale process begins, Skulsky likely will step aside from his role as team president, as he is widely expected to help lead one of the potential buyers groups. “At that time the decision will have to be made, whether I’m interested in staying or being part of an ownership group,” said Skulsky on Wednesday, after Buono spoke. Like his management team, Braley wasn’t happy with the Lions 2015 season. “I’ve very disappointed – 7-11 is not very good.” Asked whether he’d be at the helm when the CFL’s 2016 season kicks off next June, Braley smiled.
“Who knows,” he said, chuckling. “Who knows.”"

[footballtom]

if This team does not sell next year to new owners the lions will not be in Vancouver .

[JohnHenry]

if This team does not sell next year to new owners the lions will not be in Vancouver .

I realize you're a soccer troll "tom" and only post repeated cryptic comments about the lack of Lions fan support but it's only wishful thinking on your part that the Lions "will not be in Vancouver" (just check out "tom's" last 10 posts). That would leave BC Place for your beloved "Bells" only. Dream on "tom". Eliminating the Lions will not help the Whitecaps in any way, only to crow "we're No. 2" and sinking fast.

[BC 1988]

if This team does not sell next year to new owners the lions will not be in Vancouver .

I realize you're a soccer troll "tom" and only post repeated cryptic comments about the lack of Lions fan support but it's only wishful thinking on your part that the Lions "will not be in Vancouver" (just check out "tom's" last 10 posts). That would leave BC Place for your beloved "Bells" only. Dream on "tom". Eliminating the Lions will not help the Whitecaps in any way, only to crow "we're No. 2" and sinking fast.

I suspect it's more his beloved Seahawks. The posting pattern is exactly like dupsdell1 (and a previous incarnation years before). dupsdell1's last post was

"Re: Lions 9 @ Calgary 35 -- Post Game Comments
Ha ha ha. Told you guys so lilns suck here in Seattle were the place is packed and loud . watch the attendance go down to 15 k. Next year what a joke of a team league and franchise . good bye suvkets I am watching the real league"

before he was banned Nov 15, 2015.

footballtom hasn't posted anything bannable yet though.

[B.C.FAN]

The team has never been on the market according to Braley and Skulsky, and won't be put on the market during this season.

Is that what Braley says now? Because his memory seems awfully selective. Either that or the Globe and Mail reporter who wrote the following piece last year was extremely mistaken.....

"With B.C. Lions for sale, long-time owner starts assessing potential buyers"

"The process to sell the B.C. Lions is under way, with 19 parties having expressed interest and long-time owner David Braley beginning to assess potential buyers.mBraley, 74, wants to sell to someone who will take at least a majority stake in the team and will be a steward for the club in British Columbia. He doesn’t want to sell to a group in which each member holds a small fraction. “The most important thing is they look after the club as part of the community,” Braley said in an interview on Wednesday, from his office at his auto-parts company Orlick Industries Ltd. in Hamilton.

Of the 19 parties interested in the Lions, 14 are local, with others located in Calgary, Edmonton, California, Las Vegas and Florida. Braley will first focus on the local 14. Braley said he didn’t know how long the process would extend. “That may take all this year. It may take next year. Who knows? We will just start to sort it now, with the interested parties.”

Braley has never been in a rush to sell. He has always said he has a list of interested parties. His health issues probably set the sale process back. Skulsky has since said that nothing will happen before 2017. This is from Mike Beamish in April:

'CLUB NOT FOR SALE'

Still recovering from a foot infection, complicated by diabetes, Braley spent a number of weeks in a Vancouver hospital before being well enough to fly home to southern Ontario. At the family's request, his condition is being kept confidential. The Lions' owner turns 75 on May 31. He has talked before about divesting himself of the football club before he reaches his diamond birthday. That objective, if indeed it was his intention, is in a state of suspension, too.

"The club is not for sale - today," Skulsky says. "When that will change, who knows? Talk of that is in the rear-view mirror. David wants us to focus on football, the team and the coming season. Don't focus on the sale or who's in the boardroom."

[Hambone]

2 years ago we played Ottawa on October 11, 2014 up against the Canucks home opener and had 31,217 fans. I remember because it was such a nightmare to get home. At that time Ottawa was a novelty but...

A couple weeks later we played Calgary in week 20 for a playoff preview and broke 33,000. They even opened up the visitors side of the upper bowl. I sat there. It wasn't that long ago... Am I wrong? What gives?

Something just came back to mind on your question Alputt. Remember that was the season of Skulsky's guarantee win night. They had to open up more of the upper bowl if anything just to make good on Skulsky's guarantee. In 2014 BC averaged 24746 in the first 4 games. That's approximately 3000 under lower bowl capacity. Then Skulsky put out the guarantee win and 33196 showed up to see the Riders. With the loss that was a potential for the house to be papered with up to 33196 free tickets over the balance of the season. As it was they drew 119761 over the final 4 games; 20777 more than they drew over the first 4 games. Of the top of my head I don't recall what percentage of fans cashed in on the freebies but suffice it to say most of the attendance boost over the final 4 games can be directly attributable to that. Had BC beat the Riders that fateful night they likely don't average much more than 26000 coming down the stretch.

[B.C.FAN]

2 years ago we played Ottawa on October 11, 2014 up against the Canucks home opener and had 31,217 fans. I remember because it was such a nightmare to get home. At that time Ottawa was a novelty but...

A couple weeks later we played Calgary in week 20 for a playoff preview and broke 33,000. They even opened up the visitors side of the upper bowl. I sat there. It wasn't that long ago... Am I wrong? What gives?

Something just came back to mind on your question Alputt. Remember that was the season of Skulsky's guarantee win night. They had to open up more of the upper bowl if anything just to make good on Skulsky's guarantee. In 2014 BC averaged 24746 in the first 4 games. That's approximately 3000 under lower bowl capacity. Then Skulsky put out the guarantee win and 33196 showed up to see the Riders. With the loss that was a potential for the house to be papered with up to 33196 free tickets over the balance of the season. As it was they drew 119761 over the final 4 games; 20777 more than they drew over the first 4 games. Of the top of my head I don't recall what percentage of fans cashed in on the freebies but suffice it to say most of the attendance boost over the final 4 games can be directly attributable to that. Had BC beat the Riders that fateful night they likely don't average much more than 26000 coming down the stretch.

Good point. A lot of those extra fans were cashing in freebies. I used mine. I think Skulsky was quoted as saying that more than 60% of the allowed freebies from guaranteed win night were used, so that would account for the 20,000 extra fans in the final 4 games.