Wally signed Bryant Turner to add to DT competition at camp
He provides lots of flexibility with the rotation
Might move him to DE like they did keron.
At least it improves depth on the DLine, that was sorely lacking last few years.
Are we every going to find a pure rush end?
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We don't need a pure rush end in a 3-4 if that's what we are actually going to run. Maybe our three starters would be Westerman/Minter/Brooks with Turner and Menard as backups. But you can't really talk DL in a 3-4 without bringing up the LB's. 2 of Elimimian, Bighill and Lokombo for sure would be 3/4 of our starters, what if they moved Bazzie to OLB with Mrabure as his backup. Both are kinda small for 3-4 lineman. Our three DL lineup inside the tackles, normally with a biggest and strongest over the center, the other two over the guards, with 2 OLB outside the tackles, but who knows how they intend to lineup, could have all four LB's 4-5 yards off the los
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When has a 3-4 ever been routinely successful in the CFL? I guess it has but maybe I just haven't recognized it. It just seems that having 3 DLinemen facing a 5 man O and trying to stunt a big sized LB positional player works only sporadically. If it is such a good system why isn't everyone doing it? To me, it seem the result of such a system is more often than not having the opposing QB having enough time in the backfield unmolested to have a light lunch before throwing the ball. Or... conversely making it much easier for the O Line to punch holes for the RB to penetrate to the second level which is the linebacker. Am I way off base? I don't like the 3-4 even with the talent we appear to have at linebacker.
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Agree.Sir Purrcival wrote:When has a 3-4 ever been routinely successful in the CFL? I guess it has but maybe I just haven't recognized it. It just seems that having 3 DLinemen facing a 5 man O and trying to stunt a big sized LB positional player works only sporadically. If it is such a good system why isn't everyone doing it? To me, it seem the result of such a system is more often than not having the opposing QB having enough time in the backfield unmolested to have a light lunch before throwing the ball. Or... conversely making it much easier for the O Line to punch holes for the RB to penetrate to the second level which is the linebacker. Am I way off base? I don't like the 3-4 even with the talent we appear to have at linebacker.
3-4 is not attacking the LOS, by definition. 3 DL. Wally might like the conservative aspect of it, but he has not gone with it in his time here.
My opinion ... Get a rush end. Bazzie has not shown anything like all star level. Draft a top DL for depth and rotation. Top, not far fetched project. Go with 4-3. Wally and Mark will no doubt be conservative once again. Mehh
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Agree.Sir Purrcival wrote:When has a 3-4 ever been routinely successful in the CFL? I guess it has but maybe I just haven't recognized it. It just seems that having 3 DLinemen facing a 5 man O and trying to stunt a big sized LB positional player works only sporadically. If it is such a good system why isn't everyone doing it? To me, it seem the result of such a system is more often than not having the opposing QB having enough time in the backfield unmolested to have a light lunch before throwing the ball. Or... conversely making it much easier for the O Line to punch holes for the RB to penetrate to the second level which is the linebacker. Am I way off base? I don't like the 3-4 even with the talent we appear to have at linebacker.
3-4 is not attacking the LOS, by definition. 3 DL. Wally might like the conservative aspect of it, but he has not gone with it in his time here.
My opinion ... Get a rush end. Bazzie has not shown anything like all star level. Draft a top DL for depth and rotation. Top, not far fetched project. Go with 4-3. Wally and Mark will no doubt be conservative once again. Mehh
The Powerhouse Blue Bombers teams of the early 80's (coached by Cal Murphy) used a 3-4 defense with some very good results. Of course it was dependent on a large and very fast (and very good) Linebacking Corps.
I think it can be very effective in some scenario's where you have a very good rush from your front 3 and getting into backfield quickly and it can be effective in limiting gains on screen passes/draw plays. If pressure isn't constant on the QB, it can cause some headaches for the defensive secondary.
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This sentence says it all right here. IF you get good pressure from your front line with 3, then maybe it can work but 3 against 5 is seldom good odds and if you have a blocking/RB, it can quickly be 3 against 6. Might as well build a small vacation properly while you are progressing through your 5th and 6th reads as a QB. Feels too much like a prevent D-fence and we all know how well those tend to work when you are trying to hold a lead at the end the game. Get 4 big hoggies up front and own the LOS. Get after the QB early and don't let him get a rhythm. Make em punt, keep the ball away from their O and win the game.squishy35 wrote:
I think it can be very effective in some scenario's where you have a very good rush from your front 3 and getting into backfield quickly and it can be effective in limiting gains on screen passes/draw plays. If pressure isn't constant on the QB, it can cause some headaches for the defensive secondary.
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The Argos GC winning team of 04 - with Stubler as DC - played a mostly 3-4 defence.
Somebody might be able to explain to me why a sharp defensive coaching staff could not have the personnel and the imagination/guts to be able to deploy both a 4-3 AND a 3-4 defence - depending on the offence they are facing or in game situations ???
Somebody might be able to explain to me why a sharp defensive coaching staff could not have the personnel and the imagination/guts to be able to deploy both a 4-3 AND a 3-4 defence - depending on the offence they are facing or in game situations ???
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Rodu wrote:did we not have a 3-4 in '94 when we won?
Yes - and as I pointed out in that recent thread abouut Andrew Stewart's problems - that BC 30 front that featured Canadians - Stewart, Dave Chaytors & Doug Petersen - threw the supposedly oh so superior Stallions all import O-line around or out-played them for much of that big game.
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You're forgetting Glen Scrivener who was a big part of that DL which was backed by a very good group of import LBs in Angelo Snipes, Henry Newby an Virgil Robertson.OV - 54:40 wrote:Rodu wrote:did we not have a 3-4 in '94 when we won?
Yes - and as I pointed out in that recent thread abouut Andrew Stewart's problems - that BC 30 front that featured Canadians - Stewart, Dave Chaytors & Doug Petersen - threw the supposedly oh so superior Stallions all import O-line around or out-played them for much of that big game.
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Hey Hambone - are you forgetting the 4th member of that Lions' LB crew - Chatman i think ? I don't recall Scrivener playing much that game but I do remember him as a petty tough & solid D-lineman in his CFL playing time.Hambone wrote:You're forgetting Glen Scrivener who was a big part of that DL which was backed by a very good group of import LBs in Angelo Snipes, Henry Newby an Virgil Robertson.OV - 54:40 wrote:Rodu wrote:did we not have a 3-4 in '94 when we won?
Yes - and as I pointed out in that recent thread abouut Andrew Stewart's problems - that BC 30 front that featured Canadians - Stewart, Dave Chaytors & Doug Petersen - threw the supposedly oh so superior Stallions all import O-line around or out-played them for much of that big game.
Some Lions' D of the past featured a lot of good and local Canadian talent: guys like Konar, Hebler, Klassen, Jackson, Martin
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squishy35 wrote:WestCoastJoe wrote:Agree.Sir Purrcival wrote:When has a 3-4 ever been routinely successful in the CFL? I guess it has but maybe I just haven't recognized it. It just seems that having 3 DLinemen facing a 5 man O and trying to stunt a big sized LB positional player works only sporadically. If it is such a good system why isn't everyone doing it? To me, it seem the result of such a system is more often than not having the opposing QB having enough time in the backfield unmolested to have a light lunch before throwing the ball. Or... conversely making it much easier for the O Line to punch holes for the RB to penetrate to the second level which is the linebacker. Am I way off base? I don't like the 3-4 even with the talent we appear to have at linebacker.
3-4 is not attacking the LOS, by definition. 3 DL. Wally might like the conservative aspect of it, but he has not gone with it in his time here.
My opinion ... Get a rush end. Bazzie has not shown anything like all star level. Draft a top DL for depth and rotation. Top, not far fetched project. Go with 4-3. Wally and Mark will no doubt be conservative once again. Mehh
The Powerhouse Blue Bombers teams of the early 80's (coached by Cal Murphy) used a 3-4 defense with some very good results. Of course it was dependent on a large and very fast (and very good) Linebacking Corps.
I think it can be very effective in some scenario's where you have a very good rush from your front 3 and getting into backfield quickly and it can be effective in limiting gains on screen passes/draw plays. If pressure isn't constant on the QB, it can cause some headaches for the defensive secondary.
Bombers had an outstanding linebacker corp of Greg Battle, Tyrone Jones
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Doh! My bad. Bigtime my bad given I have Chatman's game worn jersey hanging in my closet. Scrivener didn't play in that game. Might've been injured. CFLDB lists him as playing 15 games in 1994 compared to Peterson's 7 in his rookie season. Kent Warnock also spent time on the BC DL in 1994. I can't remember the exact roster and ratio numbers from back then but am thinking it was more than the current 7 Nationals. Was it 9 NIs were required to start in 1994?OV - 54:40 wrote: Hey Hambone - are you forgetting the 4th member of that Lions' LB crew - Chatman i think ? I don't recall Scrivener playing much that game but I do remember him as a petty tough & solid D-lineman in his CFL playing time.
Some Lions' D of the past featured a lot of good and local Canadian talent: guys like Konar, Hebler, Klassen, Jackson, Martin
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The combo for the Bombers in the mid 80's was Tyrone Jones and James (Wild )West. They had a couple of other Lbs that were on the same team , Delbert Fowler and Aron Brown I believe . Battle played there a couple of years later in the late 80's and early 90's .TheLionKing wrote: Bombers had an outstanding linebacker corp of Greg Battle, Tyrone Jones
James West came to BC for a couple of seasons when Dave Ritchie was HC here and ended his career here , I think , on our 94 Grey Cup team .
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Not sure how many NIs had to start at that time. A lot more NIs seemed to get to play on D compared to standard CFL thinking now though. That was like a coming out game for Doug Petersen IMO - went on to a fine CFL career playing for the Als & Esks later - one of the toughest and most under-rated CFL DTs IMO.Hambone wrote:Doh! My bad. Bigtime my bad given I have Chatman's game worn jersey hanging in my closet. Scrivener didn't play in that game. Might've been injured. CFLDB lists him as playing 15 games in 1994 compared to Peterson's 7 in his rookie season. Kent Warnock also spent time on the BC DL in 1994. I can't remember the exact roster and ratio numbers from back then but am thinking it was more than the current 7 Nationals. Was it 9 NIs were required to start in 1994?OV - 54:40 wrote: Hey Hambone - are you forgetting the 4th member of that Lions' LB crew - Chatman i think ? I don't recall Scrivener playing much that game but I do remember him as a petty tough & solid D-lineman in his CFL playing time.
Some Lions' D of the past featured a lot of good and local Canadian talent: guys like Konar, Hebler, Klassen, Jackson, Martin