Als 23 @ Leos 13 - Post Game Stats and Comments

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MexicoLionFan
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Well, what can I say that I haven't said already? Its Groundhog Day every week with the Lions. I think that Joe has made a number of brilliant observations regarding the Lion's problems and how they relate to Buono. In fact, I agree completely with Joe's assertion that Tedford suddenly appears to be nothing more than just a more qualified Mike Benevides 2.0 and who would have thought that before training camp???

Blitz, Joe, Toppy, Dano and others have all laid out exactly what the problems are, and if you believe that they are being last in most Defensive and Offensive categories, you would only be partly correct...these are merely the SYMPTOMS of a much, much larger problem that has gone VIRAL with the Lions. Wally Buono has cast some magical spell over everyone within the organization that saps the energy and aggressiveness out of them. As Toppy has said, Jeff Tedford has become a LAME DUCK Head Coach in RECORD time...he's doing NOTHING to live up to the culture he promised at the time of his hiring of a strong mental and physical TEAM...this isn't a team, its an array of passive, misguided kids that are disconnected from each other and the coaching staff!!!

Alex Hoffman-Ellis made 10 tackles in the game and not one of them was in the MTL backfield...he has quickly morphed into the new Solomon Elimimian 2.0, a relatively passive runner, that makes tackles all over the field (just 10 yards from the LOS). What kind of defence gives up 250+ yards on the ground and then allows two ROOKIE QBs to go 22 out of 25 in the passing game??? WE DON'T DEFEND AGAINST ANYTHING except the "big play", and we still lead the league in giving up big play TDs!!! We don't generate turnovers and we rarely get pressure from our front 7...we simply allow teams to DICTATE THEIR GAME TO US, and then respond. This is NOT what EVERY SINGLE GREAT TEAM DEFENCE IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL HAS DONE!!! This defence is a JOKE and it reflects not only the DC, but the HC as well.

Lulay has not thrown for over 200 yards since his big game vs. SSK in the early part of the season and NO CFL TEAM can win with this lack of production in the passing game! Fans are starting to blame the OLine which came out strong at the beginning of the season, but its NOT THEIR FAULT. Cortez is simply doing the SAME THING in the SAME SITUATIONS again and again and again. Defences have begun cheating on mass against Cortez and we are simply outmanned at the LOS, rarely have the woes in our running game, or the increase in QB pressure fallen upon the OLine! George Cortez has created mismatches AGAINST US, in particular his OLine that they simply cannot handle, especially when they have backups playing and guys out of position!

Sorry if some don't like to hear this, but its TRUE nonetheless...BC's coaching is almost NON EXISTENT and it starts with Jeff "I'm Only Here for a Good Time" Tedford! He has ZERO control over this football team, its either that or he's a total incompetent because our Offence, Defence and Special Teams are the WORST in the league!

I have said this for the last few weeks, the Lions mediocre/poor record is NOT truly reflective of this team, we are a LOT WORSE than a 3-5 group...we are the "bottom of the barrel" in the CFL and as Blitz noted this downward slide started back in 2008! We are heading into a bye week with NFL cuts right around the corner, NOW IS THE TIME for Jeff Tedford to do something drastic to turn around the fortunes of this team. The first move he should make is to DEMAND the trading or outright release of Arceneaux, followed by the firing of both Mark Washington and Chuck McMann. Second, he must force a complete overhaul of the Offence that plays to the strengths of Travis Lulay and incorporates some of the unique talents that this Offence possesses. Third, he must place personnel WHERE THEY BELONG on both sides of the ball, and bring in NEW AGGRESSIVE players that want to succeed. Now, having to do this at the season's half way point (which I predicted would happen back in training camp) is INSANE, but necessary...and why? Because as Blitz said Wally has NEGLECTED to address these problems for essentially SEVEN YEARS!

The problems with the Lions are very serious and the consequences are going to be dire to the franchise should nothing change, because on top of being the GM of a horsesh$t football team, Buono is also the architect of an incredibly BORING one as well! Congratulations Wally, you have got exactly what you have earned...a massive mess in Lotusland!
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WestCoastJoe
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What MLF said :thup:

Not easy medicine. But reality.

How did we get to this point? We seemed so solid at times during Wally's time here.

The huge loss of Bobby Ackles.

Absentee owner.

Lifetime contract for Wally Buono.

Early success hiding problems.

Easier competition prior to the arrival of Austin, Hufnagel and Trestman. Now we have Chris Jones and Scott Milanovich to deal with.

Sense of security for Wally. Keeping the old guard. Staying with what once worked. Same old, same old. Favoritism for certain players and coaches. Stubbornness. Arrogance. Head in the sand lack of vision. Dinosaur thinking. Pie in the sky thinking. Interference with coaching. Players can sense when this is happening, and it destroys team resolve. And of course, Wally has charisma. He has a focus on the community. He is a father figure. He is a good and decent man. He has a large Teflon shield. And he has a history of success. The media treats him with reverence. He has extreme loyalty from his employer and his loyal fan base.

As noted by MLF, and suggested by me, it seems that Jeff Tedford has quickly slipped into the comfort zone of just doing things Wally's way. He seems like one of Wally's boys. Consevative to the max.

And that would do it.

Interest down. Attendance down. Results down. In the botton third of the league, on a downward slide, much closer to the bottom than the top.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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Sir Purrcival
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Watching the Ottawa, Toronto game today, I was inclined to think about a few things mostly spurred by the performance of Earnest Jackson. Here was a player that was on our team, could still have been on our team and looking very good on a struggling Ottawa squad. Why did we not make a better effort to keep him? Yesterday, I was watching as Tim Brown was excellent on the special teams for the Stamps. He always got positive yardage on the teams and even managed to get a Rider player ejected (not sure that he was all that happy about it but there it is). Then against Montreal, we saw Stefan Logan also do well on the teams and had to wonder once again, what possesses a team to let proven performers go? The latter two didn't even get a chance to compete for their jobs and have certainly not been replaced by anyone more competent.

This team simply baffles me. I don't care that St. Wally seems to think our DLine is fine and dandy. I watched 3 other games this weekend where strong pressure from the front 4 had major impacts on the offensive side of the ball. They may not all have be sacks but we saw, forced fumbles, knock downs, hurries and all the rest.
I saw how other teams D's penetrate through blocking schemes to disrupt plays often resulting in small gains or losses, not us.
I saw a former Canadian QB play receiver today with greater heart and determination that our "all-star" receiver. Making clutch catches, fighting for extra yards and giving it his all.
I saw a Toronto team playing with essentially 3 rookie receivers who were making great plays, adjusting to throws and performing at a far higher level than our experienced receivers.

Our team is sick. Little heart, cohesion, teamwork to name a few things. It is like watching someone you care about slowly going downhill and feeling completely powerless to do anything about it. The doctors in this case (coaching) don't seem to know what to do about it and more frustrating seem to be indifferent to the whole thing. After watching all the games this weekend, it is very clear that this team is far below most of the others and lucky to even have 3 wins. At this point, I would consider the Riders with their O,fer record superior to us. At least they are in games most of the time and whats more they seem to care more. I would say they have just been unlucky not to have notched a win or two by now.
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Toppy Vann
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If you look closely at the Stamps and the Als - those two players Brown and Logan are leaders and tone setters. Listen to interviews and their teams is fired up when these guys go back to return kicks. They give their teams hope. We know that Brown was in and out of the line up and the stories were what a good team mate this guy was. Stamps players AND coaches seem to think so.

I remember - even a few on this site when good performers got cut who couldn't find teams - Antonio Warren - who could still play and posters would actually type on here "Wally knows best." While two teams called his BS on these two and its coming back to haunt them EVERY game they play and last time I checked the Stamps were up in the standings vs BC.

When the Riders lined up for the 65 yard FG it was TSN's Suitor I think who said 'this could be interesting with Tim Brown back there.' You aren't hearing anything like that when BC is being kicked to.

That was an 11 pt turnaround as Messam for two runs then a FG would be 3 - instead Tim Brown got a super return as he was deep in the end zone the kick was 65 yards with the cover team coming a long, long way. The penalty and ejection and the Hail Mary from Bo Levi 8 pt TD. That was TSN's and the fans turning point.
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David
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A little late to the party on this but one thing that really bugged me last game was this:

Right before the half, we had 8 seconds left on 2nd down. We were all the way over at the right hashmark. I was screaming for the club to run another play just to get the ball to the middle of the field for Leone, then call a timeout. Instead, Leone shanks a 48 attempt and the half ends. :dizzy:


DH :cool:
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DanoT
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One thing that I noticed is that what is helping Brown and Logan look so good this year is that they have better blocking in front of them. :shock:
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sj-roc
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David wrote:A little late to the party on this but one thing that really bugged me last game was this:

Right before the half, we had 8 seconds left on 2nd down. We were all the way over at the right hashmark. I was screaming for the club to run another play just to get the ball to the middle of the field for Leone, then call a timeout. Instead, Leone shanks a 48 attempt and the half ends. :dizzy:


DH :cool:
I wasn't all that concerned with the hashmark business as IIRC in the home opener vs Ssk he booted his 56yder from that side, too. I've also noticed teams have become reluctant to call timeouts in the 1st half since they made the rule change allowing you to bank the first one all the way up to just before the 3MW of Q4, plus you need one in hand anyway if you want to issue your 2nd coach's challenge of the game. But as long as we're talking coulda/woulda/shouldas, the sequence that really irked me which I don't recall anyone here bringing up so far was on our series right before that MFG.

Trailing 9-7 with about 2mins left in Q2, we were 1st & 10 on the Mtl40 and I'm thinking, "Okay, into FG range now, good chance we come out of this series at least with the lead." Aaron Lavarias bats down Lulay's pass almost soon as he releases it. 2nd & 10. "No big deal, even if we don't gain the ten, we can still try for 3 as long as we don't take the sack." Well, whaddaya know. Even though we keep Leonard & Harris back in for added protection, outnumbering Mtl who are sending six, the Als still get three guys including Hebert and Elsworth who converge on Lulay to bring him down for a nine yard loss and force a punting situation. I was yelling out loud at this point. "Arrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!! You had ONE job: DON'T TAKE THE SACK!"

Who knows, that sack might the reason why they chose the FGA on the next series, which was snapped only 7yds up from the spot of that 2nd down play. The attempt actually came from the 40, not from the 48. You might be thinking of the 48yds the ball travelled from the LOS to where Logan caught it 15yds deep in goal.
Last edited by sj-roc on Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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WestCoastJoe
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The Lions since 2003 are an excellent case study in sports management.

With football, one can see success or failure on the field. One fan see the results of good leadership, management, coaching and personnel work. It is all there on display.

And bad examples are on display also.

What has worked in Calgary, Hamilton and Toronto?

What has led to poor results in B.C.?

One can see the results, and since so much of football is public, in the media, on film, through interviews, et cetera, one can figure out what has been going on with teams.

It is IMO very well documented on this site. It is not always comfortable. Fans are loyal to their team, its players, and its staff. Praise and recognition are given, and criticism is also given. I expect any criticism given on this site is mild compared to some "savage" cities. Manure on the lawn? Throwing snowballs (ice balls) at Santa Claus at an Eagles game in Philadelphia years ago? LOL

So we are in for some humble times, it seems.

Jeff Tedford gave us hope. Is that hope fading? It seems so. At this time he does not look to be on a level with Hufnagel, Austin or Milanovich. And it is early, but there are some bad signs.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Toppy Vann
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DanoT wrote:One thing that I noticed is that what is helping Brown and Logan look so good this year is that they have better blocking in front of them. :shock:
It's twofold in a sport like football. It's the blocking and that explosive guy.

Teams that believe in the return game will crank it up a few more notches to make sure they do their part. You hear in their voices and that of their coaches and see it in their body language.

Unfortunately for these star returners the kicking it up ends up bringing back the 50-60 yarders as blockers sometimes lose that discipline in that split milli-second and end up taking a penalty.

___
Coaches can over coach in those situations with the 8 sec up on the board. If you really need that FG - yeah run it towards the middle to show your Kicker you got his back versus making him make a hard kick just because a game ago he got a 56 yarder.

Same when Esks make Shaw punt and not go for the FG due to Banks the returner when the kick for their guy was doable. Then he misses the convert I think it was not long after. Got to show sound judgment and sound confidence - at the right times. Shaw looked confused after that punt and I bet it hung on him when he made that next miss.
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maxlion
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WestCoastJoe wrote:The Lions since 2003 are an excellent case study in sports management.

Jeff Tedford gave us hope. Is that hope fading? It seems so. At this time he does not look to be on a level with Hufnagel, Austin or Milanovich. And it is early, but there are some bad signs.

Just IMO ...
In Austin's first year with the Ticats, they started 1-4, which included a 37-0 loss to Sask, before squeeking into the playoffs. Last year, they started 1-7 before again squeeking in. Not saying that all is well here, just that it is still early and other teams have struggles too.
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MexicoLionFan
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maxlion wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:The Lions since 2003 are an excellent case study in sports management.

Jeff Tedford gave us hope. Is that hope fading? It seems so. At this time he does not look to be on a level with Hufnagel, Austin or Milanovich. And it is early, but there are some bad signs.

Just IMO ...
In Austin's first year with the Ticats, they started 1-4, which included a 37-0 loss to Sask, before squeeking into the playoffs. Last year, they started 1-7 before again squeeking in. Not saying that all is well here, just that it is still early and other teams have struggles too.

Austin took both teams to the Grey Cup!!! In coaching its all about being honest with where your team is at in any moment. Austin took aggressive steps to change the course of his team and it paid off. In his 2nd season, he made more changes (to an already myriad of changes) and it took time for things to come together. They are now the best team in the CFL at this point in the season. Now, that's leadership and coaching!

As Joe has long said, look at what the Wally led Lions are up against in the CFL today...Hufnagel, Dickenson and Stubler in CGY, Chris Jones in EDM, Kent Austin in HAM, Scott Milanovich in TOR, a very smart Jim Popp in MTL who won't tolerate losing and even Rick Campbell in OTT. There are few "gimme" wins in the CFL anymore, you have to be your best week in and week out to get wins and we simply are not...and we are NOT even close to these other organizations when it comes to coaching and it shows.
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WestCoastJoe
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MexicoLionFan wrote:
maxlion wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:The Lions since 2003 are an excellent case study in sports management.

Jeff Tedford gave us hope. Is that hope fading? It seems so. At this time he does not look to be on a level with Hufnagel, Austin or Milanovich. And it is early, but there are some bad signs.

Just IMO ...
In Austin's first year with the Ticats, they started 1-4, which included a 37-0 loss to Sask, before squeeking into the playoffs. Last year, they started 1-7 before again squeeking in. Not saying that all is well here, just that it is still early and other teams have struggles too.

Austin took both teams to the Grey Cup!!! In coaching its all about being honest with where your team is at in any moment. Austin took aggressive steps to change the course of his team and it paid off. In his 2nd season, he made more changes (to an already myriad of changes) and it took time for things to come together. They are now the best team in the CFL at this point in the season. Now, that's leadership and coaching!

As Joe has long said, look at what the Wally led Lions are up against in the CFL today...Hufnagel, Dickenson and Stubler in CGY, Chris Jones in EDM, Kent Austin in HAM, Scott Milanovich in TOR, a very smart Jim Popp in MTL who won't tolerate losing and even Rick Campbell in OTT. There are few "gimme" wins in the CFL anymore, you have to be your best week in and week out to get wins and we simply are not...and we are NOT even close to these other organizations when it comes to coaching and it shows.
Yes, it is early in Tedford's time here.

And Kent Austin has taken his team to the Grey Cup in each of his seasons as Head Coach.

Troubling signs for us though ...

Where is the diverse offence we came to expect with Tedford and Cortez? As detailed by Blitz and MLF and others, the offence looks predictable. Same patterns, defence jumping routes. Most importantly, no preparation or adjustments to combat the blitz and overloads.

Where is the defence that is needed in this league? No pressure on the QB aside from the front four. That is a dinosaur system. Focus on a backing-off, backpedaling zone pass defence. Also a dinosaur system.

And very pedestrian STs, to put it mildly and politely.
.............

And then there are other issues: morale, team spirit, competitiveness, never give up, confidence. All missing in action, at times. Lulay never quits. Harris never quits. Bighill. Sollie. But many do quit.

And this issue: Personnel. Canadian draft this year for us was beyond amateurish. Gambling. And some kind of pie in the sky thinking. Wasted picks in the most important aspect of CFL football. And with the Internationals. D Line. Out of position. Lack of youth busting at the seams ready to break in to the starting lineup. Undersized. Aging. A bad mix.

And this issue: Esteemed veterans leaving on nasty terms. That greatly damages a team in the eyes of players throughout the league. It puts us greatly behind the 8 ball in trying to sign free agents.

And this issue: Safety. Mark W is a former DB. And yet, in his time here, we have not developed a Safety on our own. The most recent guys were picked up as free agents: LaRose and Rwabukamba. And they have been far from satisfactory.

And this issue: Overly conservative philosophy on all units. Even STs. No tricks planned. No tricks anticipated by the opposition. Offence: vanilla or pablum. Dry as toast. Defence: a shockingly conservative approach. 8 or 9 men back in zone. Safety sometimes 30 yards deep, way, way out of any possible play on the ball.
..........

So here we are. On the downslope. There is always hope. Teams can change players. Systems? It has been done before, by us. Can we change the way we play defence? I doubt it. Mark W is doing what he finds comfortable, and what Wally wants.

Worst of all, we see some bad signs with the players. Bad feelings. Bad statements to the press. The kind of careless attitudes that show up on losing teams. That is pretty much incurable rot.

Can we salvage this season? Yes. Likely? No.

Bigger picture. Can we salvage the franchise? That is up to Braley, and he has farmed it out to people, who are probably part of the problem.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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David
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Wow. You nailed it WestCoastJoe. As sobering and depressing as your post was, it was a very thoughtful, informed read and I can't disagree with a single thing you wrote.

Reading your post started out as :rockin: then I felt :bang: and finally :sigh:



DH :cool:
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WestCoastJoe
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David wrote:Wow. You nailed it WestCoastJoe. As sobering and depressing as your post was, it was a very thoughtful, informed read and I can't disagree with a single thing you wrote.

Reading your post was combination of :rockin: and :bang: and :sigh:

Great job.


DH :cool:
Thanks, David.

Harbinger of bad news = WCJ. LOL

I would be happier singing the praises of our team. Not much to praise at this time.

And at my age, I try to see things as clearly as possible. Fortunately for myself, I do not suffer as much with each loss. Was a time I suffered greatly as a fan. Plus I enjoy the CFL in the bigger picture. Great games. Much to digest and enjoy.

We will rise up again. Might take a while ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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David
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I just haven't felt this pessimistic about things since about 2001 when Buratto and Rita were running the team (into the ground), and we drafted a LB (Ian Williams) in the 1st round with a metal plate in his head. Damon Allen was the leader but displayed all the passion and fire of a wet match, and there was a noticeable absence of a plan or a blueprint for success. Just guys showing up for games. And fans not.

While we're not at that point, we're definitely trending in that direction. And yet, a team like the Eskimos have an identity: an attacking defense (last week notwithstanding), and have new recruits that look like they could be stars in this league one day: WR Derel Walker, RB Shakir Bell, QB James Franklin....


DH :cool:
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