Lions 26 - Eskimos 23, Blog, Post Game Stats and Comments

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

zeppo
Starter
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:24 pm

almo89 wrote:The successful 2 point conversion was huge. Had we missed on it, Jones might have went for the FG to win the game.

I think that, if he was down by only one point instead of three, Jones would have gone for the field goal for sure. As it was, IMO, he should have gone for the FG anyways.

But that two point conversion was barely successful. The pass was a floater that forced Gore to slow down and wait for it. The Lions
were fortunate that the Edmonton defender did not break up the play.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

DanoT wrote:I didn't notice Valli playing instead of Fabien until the 4th Q and the TSN guys never mentioned it.
And that is a good thing. Means he's not being called for illegal procedure or holding. :wink:
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

almo89 wrote:The successful 2 point conversion was huge. Had we missed on it, Jones might have went for the FG to win the game.
The punt by Leone that went for a rouge was also huge although I'm sure his intent was to pin the Esks deep in their zone. Sets up the scenario that with a successful 2 pt. conversion would force Edmonton to at least kick a field goal.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

TheLionKing wrote:
almo89 wrote:The successful 2 point conversion was huge. Had we missed on it, Jones might have went for the FG to win the game.
The punt by Leone that went for a rouge was also huge although I'm sure his intent was to pin the Esks deep in their zone. Sets up the scenario that with a successful 2 pt. conversion would force Edmonton to at least kick a field goal.
"Force"?

Image


EDIT: my intent with the above was to clown CJ, not you, TLK, hope you didn't take it that way. But I think what you meant to say was that our successful 2PC set up the scenario whereby an Edm FG would not be FTW but rather only to tie. Whether we made the 2PC or not, the FG (provided they got into range although it seems CJ didn't feel they did) was always going to be a viable option for Edm with time winding down.

I discussed this earlier here today so won't bother repeating but there were probably a number of factors that went into the no-FGA decision.
Last edited by sj-roc on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

http://www.cfl.ca/video/index/id/114073

This is beautiful. Tommie Draheim and Kirby Fabien cave in the right side of Edmonton's D Line on the early run for 33 yards by Andrew Harris. Many guys locked on.

Against nine men in the box for the Schmos.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
yukonlion
All Star
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:02 pm

Granted Gore's drop was a huge brain cramp but i find in his reduced role as the wide side reciever, hes made most of the catches thrown to him (including the 2 point convert), Collie doesnt seem to fight for balls , i feel gore would be better inside rec, they've never run schems to make gore an moreimportant receiver....
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

I don't really think any of the BC receivers fight for the ball on a consistent basis.
User avatar
MexicoLionFan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

So many great and detailed comments that I will just go over a few things...

First, can the OLine be given the game MVP award? One fan actually thought that because we got stopped on short yardage situations a couple of times, that our OLine struggled...WRONG...beyond belief WRONG! Right now the MVP for the Lions is Andrew Harris, but if we were still using last year's coaches we would be 0-6 with Andrew Harris frustrated beyond description, perhaps injured as well. Harris had almost 200 yards from scrimmage last night IN SPITE of Chris Jones doing EVERYTHING he could to take him out of the game. In fact, I was shocked at how much the EDM Defence CHEATED last night, and in fact, it cost them the win. So, how were the Esks cheating, and why? They cheated to stop Andrew Harris by keeping at least 7 in the box at all times and sometimes 8 or 9. Jones did this because his line stunts were being picked up and his gap blitzes, while effective at times (LIKE ON OUR SHORT YARDAGE GAMBLES) did not consistently work. And at what cost did Jones cheat? He left the EDM secondary WIDE OPEN, all it took for any of our receivers to get open deep, even Collie, was to simply juke 10 yards down field, and most came open. Travis Lulay was ABYSMAL with his deep ball once again, but perhaps the worst I have ever seen. The Lions could have, would have, should have won by FIFTY points last night because of this EDM cheat and Lulay simply couldn't make them pay until late...and how we were still in the game for a "last second" comeback is a small miracle, especially with the disgraceful Defensive display in the first half (Nichols had 200 yards passing), but they tightened things up in the 2nd half, Sol E. spent much more time in the box, and Nichols went cold.

But two things really, really stood out for me (beyond Andrew Harris being a GREAT football player), one Lulay's accuracy has become atrocious, certainly it is not all on him, but he LITERALLY missed at least EIGHT wide open WRs downfield that would have either resulted in TDs or FG tries. He's a PROFESSIONAL QB and there are no excuses for this, he has to start hitting these guys at least 90% of the time. One of the things I noticed with Lulay on many of his deep throws, he is throwing them sooner than he needs to with a "ton of umfh" on the ball, which is why most are sailing past his receivers, and why many of you don't think he has an issue with his arm strength...clearly he does! When QBs cheat into their deep throws like this, 100% of the time it relates to a fear that they can't get the ball down field to the receiver. Its clear to me now that Lulay is worried about this, and thus cheating on most of his long balls, which is why he has no accuracy on them. Its hard to explain, but even when you are throwing a 60 yard pass to a receiver, most QBs put a touch on the throw...its almost an instinctual thing...you see where the receiver is and you just KNOW how much to put on the throw...because I will let you in on a little secret, most QBs don't use all of their arm strength on deep balls. That "touch" on the deep ball is a skill that allows great QBs to hit receivers in stride, which creates TDs instead of just long gains, or incompletions. Secondly, our OLine controlled the LOS and it greatly bothered Jones and affected his game calls. He didn't have confidence that his front four could contain Harris or generate pressure on Lulay, so he ran stunts and blitzes most of the game to artificially generate stops. And again, he was successful quite a bit with limiting Harris from a 200 yard night, but he did this at a price...a price that Lulay wasn't able to reap. Lulay was quite possibly 2 out of 20 on his deep throws last night, so why attempt so many deep passes? Because that's where the open receivers were and a professional QB has to hit those open receivers at least 90% of the time...Lulay's performance was truly awful and far from professional. Yes, he did lead a TD drive at the end of the game for the win, but he did that, as Blitz described, with a "playground" style of play...Harris made it work.

If the Lions are going to do anything this season, then the Defence MUST play like they did in the 2nd half, where they actually challenged EDM to make plays, and Lulay has got to start hitting those deep routes, because if he can't then he shouldn't be the starter. Teams are looking at the Lions offence (Harris and the OLine) and are blatantly defying Lulay to beat them by the deep ball. Jones did it ALL GAME LONG last night, until it finally bit him in the butt...thanks to Andrew Harris yes, but also thanks to an OLine that is playing OUTSTANDING FOOTBALL courtesy of their excellent coach!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Great insight, MLF. Enjoyable read.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
MexicoLionFan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:Great insight, MLF. Enjoyable read.

Thanks Joe, your analysis of last night was on the mark and outstanding as usual!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9364
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

I am absolutely thrilled at the win, but I hope the club has the foresight and good sense to recognize its mistakes (and Edmonton's!) and not think that game will result in a "W" against other top-tier teams. Not saying we were completely undeserving - I loved the tenacity of the defense in the 2nd half and the effort of the O-line against the league's best front 7, but we did catch a lot of breaks.

* we completely fell asleep on the onside kick. I could see it a mile away and could not believe Special Teams did not react. Thank God it was botched.
* what was with having the league's strongest leg kick-off after Edmonton field goals?? Instead of scrimmaging from the 35 late in the half, we had them kick. Not only did the return go nowhere, we took an illegal block penalty which put us back on the 10 yard line and led to Eskimo points.
* we also had a lot of drives (namely our last) continue thanks to Eskimo penalties, be it roughing the passer, or illegal contact.
* 99 times out of 100 a coach (not named Matthews) will put the game in the hands of his red-hot kicker to tie the game and force OT.

Above all, it's not very often a team can knock off the league's top-ranked club with a QB that throws for under 200 yards and a 52% completion percentage. I really like Travis but I don't 'get' the reluctance or fear in inserting Beck for a series or two. Beck has a wonderful touch on the ball. Yes, he had a lousy completion % last year, but he also tossed 5 TD's in only 41 attempts in his first year behind an O-line that really struggled. If drive after drive is stalling, then next man up! This is about winning football games, not stroking egos. The fact that Travis tossed a beautiful pass to Harris on a double move to win the game, should not mask all the errant throws and INTs that preceded it. But we're not likely to see a change in coaching strategy anytime soon. Ironically, I used to worry about Travis taking an early season ending hit. I now worry more about the wear and tear on that right shoulder by playing him every down of every game.



DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12581
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

David wrote:* we completely fell asleep on the onside kick. I could see it a mile away and could not believe Special Teams did not react. Thank God it was botched.
* what was with having the league's strongest leg kick-off after Edmonton field goals?? Instead of scrimmaging from the 35 late in the half, we had them kick. Not only did the return go nowhere, we took an illegal block penalty which put us back on the 10 yard line and led to Eskimo points.
I was surprised to see in the Lions' post-game video from the victorious locker room that they gave the special teams game ball to Chuck McMann.
BC. Lions video link
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

David wrote:...we did catch a lot of breaks.

* we completely fell asleep on the onside kick. I could see it a mile away and could not believe Special Teams did not react. Thank God it was botched.
* what was with having the league's strongest leg kick-off after Edmonton field goals?? Instead of scrimmaging from the 35 late in the half, we had them kick. Not only did the return go nowhere, we took an illegal block penalty which put us back on the 10 yard line and led to Eskimo points.
* we also had a lot of drives (namely our last) continue thanks to Eskimo penalties, be it roughing the passer, or illegal contact.
* 99 times out of 100 a coach (not named Matthews) will put the game in the hands of his red-hot kicker to tie the game and force OT.
We also caught a bit of break in Q3 when Leone punted just over the goal line and Kendial Lawrence decided to bring it out only to get stuffed inside his 5YL. Edm's ensuing drive stalled just shy of midfield but all else being equal that was going to be a very makeable <40yd FGA instead of a punt had he taken a knee and ceded the rouge (which would have made it 26-18 Edm to this point).

Esks were called for "Interference on a Loose Ball" on that botched onside kick; Bo Lokombo was pursuing the live ball while it was still airborne and Edm special teamer Mike Dubuisson got the flag for obstructing his path. It doesn't happen very often but I recall a game a couple years ago in Wpg (I think it was the "Call in the Military!" blowout game) where we recovered a fumble only to have the same call go against us; the ruling in this sort of situation is that the non-interfering team is automatically awarded possession, so Wpg got the ball. The call went our way this time but it didn't really matter as Pascal Lochard ended up recovering it for us anyway, but if Edm had gained possession, it would have reverted to us on the Dubuisson penalty.

Here's an article Tom Higgins wrote for cfl.ca in 2011 in his capacity as then-Director of Officiating in which he describes a similar interference call in a Tor/Wpg game that impacted the outcome.

http://cfl.ca/article/higgins-two-big-p ... rect-calls

Excerpt:
Higgins: Two big plays, two correct calls
September 26, 2011 03:00EDT

... Last Saturday's game in Toronto not only produced an upset, with the Argos upending the first-place Winnipeg Blue Bombers, it also produced several unusual plays.

One of those unusual plays produced a pivotal moment and a rare call that had fans talking. On the said play, Toronto returner Chad Owens mishandled a punt, the loose ball bounced into the end zone, and the Bombers appeared to recover it for a huge touchdown.

However, Owens had been unable to attempt to recover his fumble because a member of the Winnipeg cover team tackled him well after the ball came loose. The Bombers were penalized for "interference on a loose ball", their touchdown was nullified, and Toronto was awarded possession of the ball.

The rule book clearly states: "A player shall not deliberately interfere with an opponent attempting to recover a loose ball following a blocked kick, a dribbled ball, a fumble or a wild snap from the centre, an offside pass, an onside kick and a kick that does not cross the line of scrimmage."

Typically, a ball carrier fumbles as he is tackled, the ball comes loose, and the tackler finishes his tackle. There is also the case of incidental contact as players from opposing teams scramble to recover a loose ball.

In these circumstances, it is tough for an official to conclude that deliberate interference took place. But on the play Saturday night, the Bomber player made no attempt whatsoever to recover the ball as he instead grabbed Owens and pulled him to the ground, preventing Owens from making a play on the ball.

There is no doubt that it was a huge call in the game, but it was such a clear case of "interference on a loose ball". I also have no doubt Andre Proulx's crew made the right call.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
Alputt
Champion
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:34 am
Location: Vancouver

This thread is a little stale now but I was just reviewing and had some final thoughts...

I called Lulay "dodgy" which in retrospect was pretty unfair. Edmonton was a big test for this team and they passed the test, largely thanks to Lulay's late game heroics. I still have faith and respect for him at QB, just gives me nerves some of his inconsistent throws I guess I am worried about the shoulder.

The truly amazing thing to see this year is the break-out of Andrew Harris. If he avoids injury this could be a career season for Andrew and I would say he brings the most on field excitement. (A little plug for a favourite player - the sandwich shop in the West End is awesome. Damn fine eats. "Meat City" Davie @ Thurlow)

D has been a weak point so far, obviously good talent and I am not one of these Mark Washington bashers it just needs to gel in a way that has eluded them, but a few clutch plays when it counted.

I agree with some of the other posters this is a young team and there is a lot of hope for the future. If we can hand Hamilton a loss at THF I will be a true believer.

Just bought tix for Montreal, I hope some of you others in the Lower Mainland do as well, these 20,000 gates are weak. We are better than that.
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9364
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

Alputt wrote:I called Lulay "dodgy" which in retrospect was pretty unfair. Edmonton was a big test for this team and they passed the test, largely thanks to Lulay's late game heroics. I still have faith and respect for him at QB, just gives me nerves some of his inconsistent throws I guess I am worried about the shoulder.
Good point. That's a very good Edmonton defense that gave up considerably more yards and points than their season average. I was somewhat critical of Lulay in my above post, but make no mistake. Travis is the leader of this team. I was surprised to read the narrative in the media this week that the fan base "was looking for a change at quarterback." Critical, yes. But nobody here to the best of my knowledge was advocating that. Per my post, I just think platooning Beck when Lulay gets bogged down may not be a bad strategy. Travis is typically sharp very early and off target later on, which tells me it could be due to shoulder fatigue.


DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
Post Reply