Lions 26 - Eskimos 23, Blog, Post Game Stats and Comments

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Spud387
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Much better game (penalty wise) from the Lions, only giving up 55yds on penalties.
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BC 1988
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B.C.FAN wrote:As for the game itself, that was a tremendous character win. I hoped the Lions would establish Andrew Harris and score early, and they did. What a performance, with 175 yards from scrimmage and two TDs! Harris is worth the price of admission and is the best player on the team, offence or defence, national or international. That's eight times in nine games against the Esks since 2012 and five straight games this year in which Harris has gained at least 100 yards from scrimmage, even with defences keying on him.

What I didn't expect was for the Lions to overcome three turnovers, several poorly thrown passes, one key drop and a number of broken plays on defence and outscore the Eskimos 16-0 in the second half. I know that Matt Nichols isn't a great quarterback and the Esks haven't really beaten anyone of substance, but to shut them out for 30 minutes is a tremendous achievement. The defence allowed the Lions to hang around until the end, when Lulay and Harris came through with the game on the line. Then the defence capped it with a pick to clinch the victory. This young team can build on that.
Agree completely. It's a shame Harris' performances vs TOR and WPG were wasted--with that kind of output it should mean a win.

I haven't watched the game again yet on PVR, but this game showed EDM (and particularly Nichols) shortcomings. I expect they will be leaning towards giving Franklin his first start soon.

Travis (apart from 3 big plays) was just about as bad as Nichols in this game, it looked like neither side was capable of actually taking the win. Very boring for the non hard-core fan in the stands. I couldn't believe how many got up and left right after the last BC INT, and missed the final EDM collapse. (The Esks literally threw the win away.)

The result was positive in several ways--fans should be encouraged to come back, but at the same time Tedford is an astute enough coach to see that the Lions have a lot of work to do to remain competitive in this league.
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Major improvement in discipline. :thup: :thup:
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sj-roc
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KnowItAll wrote:I hate people whose support of a team is dependant on winning.
I'm going to disagree with that sentiment. Your point, taken to its reductio ad absurdum extreme would be that BCP should be packed no matter how bad the Lions' play. But if that were the case you'd have the Toronto Maple Leafs: a team that routinely sells out all/most of its games each year and makes money hand over fist, so therefore (a) has little incentive to improve the gameday product and (b) has little reluctance to keep jacking up ticket prices for the privilege of witnessing the train wreck in person. We already have (b) even with the crowds on a downward trend the last several years; imagine how quickly ticket prices would be increasing if ticket demand actually surpassed supply.

For the long-term good of the team's performance, a team actually needs a mix of diehards (who can keep the team financially viable in the lean years) and fairweathers (who serve as a check on product quality).

Looked at another way, should Coca-Cola fans just keep buying it if the cola product quality suddenly degrades and no longer meets their needs?

OR

Should they find other ways to address their beverage needs and then consider coming back at another time, once CC has worked on restoring the quality of their product that attracted their market's interest in the first place?

There's really little reason why pro sports teams should be exempt from the vote-with-your-wallet dynamics that largely governs the rest of private enterprise.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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DanoT
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I didn't notice Valli playing instead of Fabien until the 4th Q and the TSN guys never mentioned it. Does anyone know if Fabien was injured?

I liked what Dunigan said when Lulay's horrible game stats were shown just before the final game winning drive. It was something to the tune of ignore the stats, this is where Lulay earns his pay, with a game winning drive. It is great that that is exactly what Lulay did along with the crucial 2 point convert, but Blitz is right when he says the inaccurate throws by Lulay can't be allowed to continue long term.

It did seem like Lulay had time in the pocket but couldn't find anyone open a lot of the time. Hopefully some day Tedford and Cortez will look at game film and discover that Lulay is a better QB and better passer when he moves around outside the pocket. I'm willing to accept that Tedford is still getting comfortable with the present day CFL game, but Cortez isn't really helping him.

The H back O is MIA. The short passing possession type crossing routes to Taylor/Collie are MIA.

The TSN guys said that the Esks D looked gassed in the 4th Q. I ask why? There were no long drives by the Lions in the second half other than at the end and Esks D forced lots of 2 and outs. OTOH Esks O didn't do much in the second half and really seemed to miss Bowman. It might have been a different outcome if he had remained in the game.

It might have been a different outcome if Chris Jones had made some different coaching decisions but like one guy on Riderfans posted: After the game Jones checked in to rehab for a gambling addition. :rotf:
zeppo
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WestCoastJoe wrote:



Our defence? Whatever ... But the guys absolutely play their brains out. Out of position. Soft, backpedaling.
Were you watching the same game that I was? Please provide an example of a defensive player who was "out of position".
In the same sentence you state that the defence played "their brains out", and then call them "soft". What do you mean?
What is your problem with "backpedaling" to get into coverage?

You have been saying the same things about this defence for weeks now, and not noticing (or admitting) that they, as a group
and as individual players, have shown steady improvement since the start of the season.


Character win spearheaded by Andrew Harris and the remarkable Travis Lulay. Why so many overthrows? Physical? Trying too hard? Dunno, but the man is a winner.
Travis was brutal last night. It was one of the worst performances from a Lion quarterback that I have seen in decades. IMO the Lions won the game despite him.

God bless Doug Malone. The O Line pounds the D.
Hardly! They couldn't push the Esk defence back far enough to get a half a yard in the second quarter, and Harris was repeatedly held to short rushing gains in the second half. Yes,
the Lions offensive line is improved, but they were far from dominant last night.


...............
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WestCoastJoe
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zeppo wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:

Our defence? Whatever ... But the guys absolutely play their brains out. Out of position. Soft, backpedaling.
Were you watching the same game that I was? Please provide an example of a defensive player who was "out of position".
In the same sentence you state that the defence played "their brains out", and then call them "soft". What do you mean?
What is your problem with "backpedaling" to get into coverage?
Not going to argue. Will make just one response. Everyone can have different opinions. Some may actually like this defence.
In the same sentence you state that the defence played "their brains out", and then call them "soft". What do you mean?
Yes. I will repeat: They played their brains out. Hustle all over the field. In a system that I, and others, would call soft.

Soft. By my definition means not tight cover. Loose cover. Area cover. As distinct from man to man. Soft means not blitzing as much as aggressive defences. It means not overloading the LOS. It means not moving players around at the LOS. No more than 6 in the box. It means rarely stunting. It means reacting, rather than attacking.

I certainly do not call the players soft. This fan calls that system soft defence. (Not going to argue it or debate it.)
Were you watching the same game that I was? Please provide an example of a defensive player who was "out of position".
I would contend that Bighill is out of position when he plays 20 or 25 yards deep. I would contend that both Bighill and Sollie are out of position very often when they are 5 yards deep before the snap. I would contend that the undersized defensive end Roh playing inside is out of position. I would contend that defensive tackle Westerman playing defensive end is out of position.

In tight coverage, the defender runs with the receiver, together. Backpedaling, with large drop, is soft cover.

My problem with backpedaling? Biggie or Sollie backpedaling in a zone -- This fan does not like it.
You have been saying the same things about this defence for weeks now, and not noticing (or admitting) that they, as a group
and as individual players, have shown steady improvement since the start of the season.


Not noticing? Your opinion. Improvement as a system? I don't see it. Individual players? Lots of credit to go around.
Character win spearheaded by Andrew Harris and the remarkable Travis Lulay. Why so many overthrows? Physical? Trying too hard? Dunno, but the man is a winner. -- WCJ
Travis was brutal last night. It was one of the worst performances from a Lion quarterback that I have seen in decades. IMO the Lions won the game despite him.
Your opinion. I did comment that it might have been time to give Beck some reps in the game.

Lulay brutal? I recall the days of Rick Cassata, and many others. All Lulay did was keep on slinging, dodging a very good pass rush, make a ton of mistakes, then pull out a victory from defeat.

Win despite Lulay? Lulay threw two TD passes and one 2 point convert pass. With him at QB we scored 3 TDs. Previously Edmonton had given up 5 points and 3 points in its two previous games.
God bless Doug Malone. The O Line pounds the D. -- WCJ
Hardly! They couldn't push the Esk defence back far enough to get a half a yard in the second quarter, and Harris was repeatedly held to short rushing gains in the second half. Yes,
the Lions offensive line is improved, but they were far from dominant last night.
Our O is large and strong. On the short yardage Dunigan showed how blocks were missed. One by the receiver. Harris gained 120 yards on the ground against the best run defence in the league behind solid, powerful blocking. I will stand by my praise of Doug Malone and the O Line.

End of discussion for me.

Fans can see things differently.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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B.C.FAN
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DanoT wrote:I didn't notice Valli playing instead of Fabien until the 4th Q and the TSN guys never mentioned it. Does anyone know if Fabien was injured?
According to LU, Fabien injured his shoulder on the Lions' second possession of the third quarter and did not return. He was replaced by Dean Valli.
Blitz wrote:As for Bighill being used as a safety so often, we'd be better off to insert a dime back on second down longer pass plays. Its also such a waste of Bighill's talents.
It is bizarre that the Lions use a lot of situational substitutions on the DL and at linebacker but not in the secondary. This is the first time that I can recall the Lions not using a dimeback. Alex Tillman and T.J. Lee were not dressed. The Lions had only four international DBs in the lineup (five if you count Josh Johnson), with Keynan Parker and Eric Fraser dressed as nationals who are used on special teams. Mark Washington has gone all in on using Adam Bighill as an extra DB in passing situations. When Dave Ritchie was defensive coordinator and also coached the DBs, he would sometimes dress as many as 9 or 10 DBs.
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sj-roc
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DanoT wrote:I didn't notice Valli playing instead of Fabien until the 4th Q and the TSN guys never mentioned it. Does anyone know if Fabien was injured?
I was listening to the 1040 broadcast during the game and they said at one point, don't recall when exactly, that Fabien was injured and was done for the night.
I liked what Dunigan said when Lulay's horrible game stats were shown just before the final game winning drive. It was something to the tune of ignore the stats, this is where Lulay earns his pay, with a game winning drive. It is great that that is exactly what Lulay did along with the crucial 2 point convert, but Blitz is right when he says the inaccurate throws by Lulay can't be allowed to continue long term.
Agreed with your final point. Frustrating from the stands to watch him overthrow so many balls.

I don't normally pay attention to this sort of thing, so I'm not sure how common it is but I noticed a few times that Edm used their 3rd string QB Jordan Lynch, who had taken a couple of snaps early in the game, in punt formation as an upback. Can't help but think there's a direct snap waiting to happen there, or that they at least want to distract the receiving team with the possibility, to keep them from cheating too much in setting up the return.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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B.C.FAN
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sj-roc wrote:I don't normally pay attention to this sort of thing, so I'm not sure how common it is but I noticed a few times that Edm used their 3rd string QB Jordan Lynch, who had taken a couple of snaps early in the game, in punt formation as an upback. Can't help but think there's a direct snap waiting to happen there, or that they at least want to distract the receiving team with the possibility, to keep them from cheating too much in setting up the return.
Good eye. The Esks ran a fake punt with a direct snap to Lynch on third and 2 last week against Saskatchewan and he picked up the first down, but just barely. Teams always have to be aware of his running ability, but he was not brought in just for that play. He also had a special-teams tackle on the punt cover team last week and had two special teams tackles the previous week against Winnipeg.
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DanoT
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RE: Bighill dropping into DB coverage,
Part of the strategy according to what Bighill has said to the media is that putting in a dimeback tips the Ds hand as to the coverage, but leaving him in provides a great disguise as to what they are doing on D. I would add that taking Bighill off the field is just what the opposition wants to see. He is too good of a player to not be out there making plays and being a leader.
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almo89
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The successful 2 point conversion was huge. Had we missed on it, Jones might have went for the FG to win the game.
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yukonlion wrote:esks were ranked #1 but if you look at their sked, they beat the red blacks twice, a willyless bomber tem, and the riders. and lost big time to TO... it is a great year when any team can beat another.... tough one against the cats next week.
I've been tracking the field position and outcome of every offensive series this season and here's an interesting little tidbit I've discovered from this statistical project.

Edm is the only CFL team so far in 2015 who have failed to mount a TD drive from inside their own 30, and it's not from lack of opportunity as their league-leading best avg field position at their own 40 might suggest (by my count I have it at 29 drives starting <30YL with no TDs). Their longest TD drive came from their own 34 (a 76yd drive), which they've done twice, while everyone else has at least one 85yd TD drive (i.e., from their own 25 or worse).

Ham has 1 TD from 27 drives <30YL, Toronto has 2 from 19 (the lowest base in this category), Wpg has 2 from 28 and everyone else has either 3 or 4 TDs starting <30YL.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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sj-roc
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almo89 wrote:The successful 2 point conversion was huge. Had we missed on it, Jones might have went for the FG to win the game.
Even if that had happened we would still have had plenty of time with more than 0:40 left to answer with another FG to re-take the lead, and still likely win in that event — at least on paper anyway, even if you want to be critical of our chances of doing so based on how many stalled drives we had in that half. Even as it was, Harris's run that got us our final first down moved us to the Edm52 with about 29sec remaining, a carry which he could have easily taken OOB to stop the clock instead of hook sliding near the sideline. Even allowing for the extra 11yds of FP Yell's INT gave us over where we would have started after a go-ahead Edm FG, that would have taken less time off the clock than the pick, so we could have run 3, 4, maybe even 5 more plays before putting it on Leone's foot.

Of course there's also the matter that we scored a punt rouge on the series just before Lulay's 2nd INT, which is what gave us the chance in the first place to go up 3 with a 2PC. At the time of that punt, scrimmaged from the Edm44 when it was 23-17 with about 5-1/2mins left, I thought we would have been better off pinning them deep, rather than taking the rouge to make it 23-18 at the fairly high cost of a mere nine yards of deeper field position on the exchange, but fortunately it all worked out in the end.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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DanoT wrote:RE: Bighill dropping into DB coverage,
Part of the strategy according to what Bighill has said to the media is that putting in a dimeback tips the Ds hand as to the coverage, but leaving him in provides a great disguise as to what they are doing on D. I would add that taking Bighill off the field is just what the opposition wants to see. He is too good of a player to not be out there making plays and being a leader.

When the Lions are on defence, I will often check on Bighill in order to get a feel for how often he drops into zone coverage, and how deep he is playing. I personally
have no difficulty with how he is being used. During last night's game, he was either rushing the quarterback, or playing within ten yards of the LOS, far more often than
sprinting into deep zone coverage just prior to the snap. Other defensive coordinators around the league use their middle linebackers in such a manner. For example,
Orlando Steinauer, who is a very well respected DC in this league, frequently drops Taylor Reed into pass coverage.

IMO the Lions' defence has shown steady improvement as the younger players have become more comfortable in their roles, and more familiar with the system. Mistakes are
still being made, but not nearly as often.
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