Argos 30 - Lions 27 -- Game Blog, Post Game Stats, Comments

[sj-roc]

Wally says he fines as the GM for dead ball fines. HC for other things. Also, if u get a fine for a dead ball foul I think he said something like 'don't come to my office and see me' -

I thought that Wally said something like "you are welcome to come to my office and see me". Yup a player with a fine for a dead ball foul wants to go explain to Wally why he shouldn't have got the foul and try to convince Wally to not fine him...that visit will never happen.

I may have misheard that but knowing Wally I can see him taking the view you better not come and see me for a dumb dead ball penalty.

Listening live, admittedly not that closely at that point, I initially heard it [paraphrasing] as they could come see him and never thought that much about it at the time, but then I read how Toppy heard it and went back to listen again. It comes up around 11:00 of the 15m14s file. To my ear he's not fully intelligible at that crucial moment of do or don't.

My best transcription of it, including any incidental stumbling over words, is thusly: "...anything that happens in a game that's a dead ball foul like unnecessary roughness, I, I will fine the players and if they got an issue with it [Brief Moment Of Unintelligibility] come see me." That BMOU sounds like it might be the word "come" that he could then have repeated in a stammer — just as he had already done with the word "I" only a couple seconds before that. It doesn't sound like he was saying "don't".

Who knows, he might have intended to be either deliberately ambiguous in how he put it, or perhaps sarcastic in saying that you could come see him (which is how I read DanoT's take that I've quoted above). But the next sounds out of WB's mouth after that comment were simply laughter. So I'm inclined to agree with the interpretation that he views such visits from players as a distraction and wouldn't entertain them, regardless of how he happened to word it in a live speaking environment.

[WestCoastJoe]

First, again, a huge thanks to Blitz, Joe, David, et al for all their BRILLIANT analyses of the Lions! Thanks to Toppy for so much useful and interesting info...it is all greatly appreciated.

As are your comments appreciated, MLF, with your usual passion and insight.

With all that is asked of Biggie and Sollie, they will run out of gas for sure. They play like supermen, but of course, there are physical limits on the demands one can make of players. Plus we do not take advantage of them as hunters, as predators, in attack mode. We make them play back. We make them react, rather than attack.

I agree that Tedford will get it turned around. It won't be easy to adjust the defence, it seems to me. But I think Wally will ultimately have to allow Tedford to do it his way. It seems to me the fans will insist on it.

It is the old versus the new right now. Conservative philosophy versus attack philosophy. Attack style is taking over in the CFL. We see it with Scott Milanovich, Kent Austin and Chris Jones. And maybe some others.

Just seeing the few changes so far is enough for me right now. Breath of fresh air with the O Line. Common sense, down to earth approach. Use the size and strength of these guys. Keep things simple and clear. Keep them motivated. We are seeing it. Evidence of effective ground game blocking. Evidence of effective pass protection. (One cannot help but notice Kevin Glenn getting pounded in Saskatchewan.)

Defence? That will take time, it seems.

There is much evidence of Wally's loyalty to his long time coaches. And that plays both ways. Loyalty obviously is key in an organization, up and down loyalty. But, as we have seen, loyalty also prevents change or adaptation. It causes overly conservative approaches. It causes stagnation and backsliding.

Just IMO ...

[TheLionKing]

What has worked 10 years ago isn't working now. Time for Buono to retire. We need a new skipper at the helm.

[leo4life]

Agree LionKing Bouno is way too old school in his thinking.Lions need a progressive thinker GM.Glen Suiter on the Team today said Tedford has the smarts to eventaully take that role,much like Huff in Cowtown.Oh and take Mcmann and Mark Washington with you Wally

[sj-roc]

Agree LionKing Bouno is way too old school in his thinking.Lions need a progressive thinker GM.Glen Suiter on the Team today said Tedford has the smarts to eventaully take that role,much like Huff in Cowtown.Oh and take Mcmann and Mark Washington with you Wally

Didn't catch the Suits segment but let's not take it for granted that Tedford will be here beyond the end of the 2016 season as per the expiry of his current contract. He might end up back in the big bucks of the NCAA if he gets some results here.

Braley is supposed to divest by next year, by his own self-imposed deadline. Buono's and Skulsky's contracts will also be up after the 2016 season (which is partly why JT was only given 2yrs; makes no sense to sign your subordinate to a longer contract than your own). We could see a fair bit of change here by the time all that grist goes through the mill. Hopefully it will be all to the good.

[Blitz]

First, again, a huge thanks to Blitz, Joe, David, et al for all their BRILLIANT analyses of the Lions! Thanks to Toppy for so much useful and interesting info...it is all greatly appreciated. MLF

WCJ, Blitz, MLF, you guys really make this board special. I've learned so much about the game just by reading these post game threads for the past few years. We are a lot smaller compared to Riderfans, but it's quality over quantity. You guys are awesome. Almo89

Positive comments that reflect the quality of this website are appreciated. There are many other posters that deserve recognition for their contributions..lots of very knowledgeable posters on Lionbackers.

Fans WANT an exciting product! Steve Burrato and Dave Ritchie coached effective, attacking, exciting products...much more of either Benevides or Washington and the fans will all be driving motorized wheelchairs to the games wearing brown and green polyester slacks!

In Jeff Tedford lies the answers to the downward slide of this franchise, through Wally lies "more of the same"...something has to give, and let's hope its sooner than later! MLF

I didn't quote your entire post MLF but completely agreed with your analysis and theme. Certainly a prominent theme is the difference between the thinking of the two men. For example, Tedford immediately knew he had to drop Khari Jones as OC and that our offensive line coaching was not good enough - goodbye Dorazio and hello Cortez and Malone. I wonder whether Tedford stayed with Washington because he was not given the option to go in a different direction or sold a bill of goods or whether Tedford thought it was too many changes for his first season.

But you can see the disconnect. Tedford got rid of Poblah after Wally had signed him. Tedford demoted Wally favorite Marco Iannuzzi to a backup. Wally said we would go with four Nationals on the offensive line and Tedford went with 3 Internationals. Wally had signed Norman to a salary as our starting center and Valli as our starting guard. By the end of training camp Tedford relegated both of them as backups.

Wally says he fines as the GM for dead ball fines. HC for other things. Also, if u get a fine for a dead ball foul I think he said something like 'don't come to my office and see me' Toppy Vann

If this is true and it apparently is....this drives me crazy. It's not Wally's job to fine players for infractions. That is almost always the domain of the Head Coach. Wally interfering again where he shouldn't.

Wally also said he won't comment on the HC decisions (gamble at 3 an 4 yds) - makes the parallel to keeping what goes on his bedroom private.But Wally did note the 5 or plays including the gamble that led to the change in the score so clearly he was not a fan of the gamble.

The second part of this quote made me even crazier. I can't think of any CFL coach who made more bizarre in-game decisions than Buono, when he was a Head Coach.

But instead of just venting I'm going to write a parody that reflect's my angst. It goes back in time when Wally was making those in-game decisions, in the alternate universe he seemed to inhabit in the context of game pressure.

Its second and 10 on the Bombers 30 yard line in the third quarter and our Lions are down by 3. Wally walks up to Chap and says "Huff...get Garcia to throw it to Pittsy". Chapdelaine says "Huh""I'm Jaques and Dickenson is our quarterback and Simon is our go to guy- do you want me to primary it Simon?" "Definitely" says Wally. Dickenson hits Simon on an out but the measurement shows we are short a foot.

"Punt team" yells Buono. "Kick it through the end zone for a point " Buono adds. "Are you sure," asks McCallum and adds "Its only a chip shot field goal". "Of course I'm sure" retorts Buono. "We'll only be down by 2 points and there will be no chance for a return" he adds smugly.

The single goes through the end zone with ease and the Bombers offence takes the football and our defense shuts them down. Our offence takes over again and marches down to the Bombers 23 yard line, where they are stopped once again a foot short of a first down, setting up another third down attempt. Our offence prepares to run the quarterback sneak but Wally signals the offence off the field. McCallum grabs his tee again for a 30 yard field goal attempt but Buono yells out again "Punt team!" McCallum responds "Its only a 30 yard attempt and I'm very accurate from 30 yardsin". "We'll only be down by 1,with no chance of a return if you coffin corner the punt into the end zone" says Wally, imitating the look of a genius. McCallum kicks another single and our Leos are down by 1 point. Benny, our special teams coordinator, runs down the sidelines like a mad man, thrilled with the second single point in a row.

The Bombers offence, relieved at these two reprieves, run onto the field excited. Ritchie sends in a signal to Barrin Miles to run the disguised halfback blitz, with Miles ready to rotate over at the snap of the football to ball hawk the antipated pass. Wally sees Banks sneaking up and yells at Banks "Get back, get back, get back into zone". Banks sneaks a look at Ritchie, feeling very confused. Miles signals Banks to blitz and the pressure forces the Bombers to throw quickly deep downfield, where Miles is anticipating the interception and picks it off on our 25 yard line.

"Run the god dammed football" Buono yells at Chap. Chap responds"Do you want me to run "Orange Right 34 Pull Trap?". "Huh? Get our offensive lineman to outhit their offensive lineman" demands Wally. On first down we gain 4 yards. "Run the football again" yells Wally. "How about Black Left, 32 Blast?" asks Chap. "Huh? Get the line to hit harder" charges Wally. The Bombers stack the box, knowing that we can only run inside with the spead offence. Our offence gains 2 yards on second down", leaving us with 3 and 3 on our own 33 yard line.

"Jumbo team" yells Wally. "You realize we're on our own 33 yard line" Chap whispers into Wally's ear. Wally looks confused for a brief second and says "Of course I know that". Wally calls for another running play and the Bombers stuff our offence and takes over on downs. Our Lions defence blitzes twice, knocks the Bombers out of field goal range and we go on to win a close game that shouldn't have been close.

It's now time for the press conference. The assistants know their mute orders. "The assistant coaches need to do a better job with our short yardage run offence" emphasizes Wally to the press and adds "Our players need to execute our short yardage offence better". The press eats it up as they prepare their headline "Wally Says Assistant Coaches and Players Need to Coach and Execute Short Yardage Offence Better"! Of course they all think its Chap's fault. Wally never mentions that he is the one who coaches the Jumbo short yardage offence that each season is horrible.

Wally meets with his coaches after the game. "Who should we cut? We need to send a message". Uh, we cut an offensive lineman last week Wally...we're getting short on depth" the coaches respond. "They'll hit harder next game if we cut a vet" emphasizes Wally. "I'm not happy with you either" adds Wally, staring at Chap.

"Can I do something to make up for it" adds Chap, even though he knows Wally coaches the short yardage offence and Dorazio coaches the running game, at Wally's insistence.Denial, blame, projection are embedded in these after game discussions and responsibility has to be deflected.

"Nope" says Wally. Benny cuts the lawn on Saturday mornings, Dan does the whipper snippering, and Chuck waters the plants". Chap says "I always feel that I'm not in the inner circle". "Those guys revere me" Wally responds and you are never as complimentary. Tomorrow I'm telling the press that I'm going to have to mentor you!"

"Can I coach the short yardage team being as I always take the blame when we don't make it?" asks Chap. "Nope" answers Wally, and adds "Chap , you just will never be able to make the right call as to whether to punt or go for it on third down like me or know how to coach short yardage offence. Just like I'm guiding Ritchie on defense, you are born with it or you're not!!

[Toppy Vann]

SJROC: thanks for the clarification but my sense with Wally calling dead ball fouls that in this interview said were helping to lead to losses and his comment that you can come to his office and see him was just that sarcastic! I interpreted that as Wally would be very annoyed that you could be so stupid to question him on your dumb play. I know I won't as a mens' coach listen to any excuses from a player for dumb fouls or yellow cards and I refused to let the club pay their fines - just pay mine. One year we had 4 yellows and 1 red and that player never played again for us and he paid the $50 fine. It works.


Great parody, Blitz, but it's almost too believable for fake!!!!

GAMBLE:

I heard Lulay on TSN 1040 and Pratt asked about the gamble. While it was right at the start of the interview and Lulay didn't sound warmed up - I kind of thought that his explanation of the HC's reasoning of the 3rd and 4 at their 49 yd line was not the strongest I'd want if I were the HC making what LU calls "a Bart Andrus moment." He said that Tedford addressed it with the team but let me say this - when a coach has to address an entire team for an in-game decision that backfires you know it's not a good one. Travis at the time wasn't aware of the yardage as they had to wait for the spot so wasn't sure exactly how long and that their job has to be confident and just do it - or it will fail.

There are two schools of thought on this:

1. The school that says the HC wanted to give a spark to his failing offence by showing confidence

2. The group that says WTF - we're winning and our OFF hasn't moved the ball and we've got a great kicker and good ST that hasn't let one all the way in this game - so kick and defend. But to fail here means the DEF that is starting to break might break.

The no 1 group are forgetting this team hadn't moved the ball for so long it was inevitable they'd fail. The trend was not the Lions friend there.
This group is ignoring the DEF and ST players who had to account for the coach's decision.

If I were Tedford I'd have apologized for a dumb move and let the team it won't happen again. I too had a moment like in soccer years earlier where we were winning 4 - 0- in a quarter final cup game and the opponent had basically quit. So I subbed in an older player who I felt couldn't hurt and it was then 4-1 -then 4-2 and finally 4-4. Two periods of OT later and penalty shots we win. That was my Bart Andrus moment and I apologized for it... not in front of this older guy who was at the time the Club President!!

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/foot ... story.html

From Mike Beamish ...

“He’s frustrated,” acknowledged Khreem Smith, the 36-year-old warhorse who is the godfather of the Lions’ defensive line. “He can’t do what he wants to now. It’s all about team now. Coach (Jeff Tedford) has been emphasizing team since Day One. ‘Do your job and do it great.’”

“You’re trying to do everything you can to accelerate and get at the quarterback,” Bazzie says. “Now, when you get there, you have to shut it down. It’s hard. You want to smack his arm. But, if the throw’s away, you get a penalty. The penalty I got the other night, quite frankly, slowed me down, because I didn’t want to frustrate and upset the coach (Tedford) any more.”

Bazzie’s roughing the passer penalty on Trevor Harris Friday night at BC Place gave the Argonaut offence a second life on their first touchdown, a 54-yard pass from Harris to Kevin Elliott, just before the first half ended. It was a momentum shifter, Bazzie believes. The Argos, down by 21-0 before the penalty, went on to win, 30-27.

"Momentum shifter." That is how I saw it.

“Honestly, I’m so competitive, I would have gone for it, too,” Bazzie said. “We were excited when he made that call. We looked on it as a vote of confidence in our offence.”

And that too. I had no criticism of the call. Don Matthews went for it. Chris Jones goes for it. Play to win. Rather than play to protect. Did they look sharp on the play? No. More practice and detailed work as time goes on. Teams never get as much practice with everything as they would like. You go with what you have.

In conversation, Tedford reveals a deep and sure belief that his decision was the right one, just as he is secure in the knowledge that his defensive line, with only three sacks in four games (the Lions, as a team, have five), is sound, despite the lack of production.

“Sacks are a measure of the defence, the whole package,” Tedford says. “It’s not just on the defensive line. If the quarterback’s going to get rid of the ball quick, the sacks aren’t there. It’s a collective issue that we’d like to improve on -- getting to the quarterback.”