About our defence - Wally is sounding like the Lions DC

[Toppy Vann]

Get over to tsn 1040 as farhan moj and burns are on the DEF

[WestCoastJoe]

We have heard about Mark W over-coaching his charges.

That would not be a surprise. The desperate coach loads it on, but it is in an ineffective system.

They are showing more confusion as time goes on. More dysfunction as a group. Loss of confidence.

Mark W runs a soft zone. He is trying desperately to "trick it up," to fool offences, so that it can be effective. Ain't working. Ain't gonna work. Generating publicity about putting Adam Bighill 25 yards deep as an extra Safety? State of the art thinking, or ahead of the curve? A nonsense move. Take your top LB way out of the play. Gonna fool some OCs? No. They are going to privately laugh a bit, and then draw up plays to take advantage of it.

Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. WILLY 17/25 269 2 0

Decent passing production. A better offence, of which there are many in the CFL, would have sliced us up even more.

Receiving Rec YDS TD LG
J. VELTUNG 5 58 1 25
D. ADAMS 4 127 1 56
J. FEOLI GUDINO 2 28 0 18
R. KOHLERT 2 21 0 14
C. DENMARK 2 8 0 4
P. COTTON 1 16 0 16
C. MARSHALL 1 11 0 11
T. SHERMAN 1 6 0 6

Take your pick. They are all open. Even without Nick Moore.

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
C. MARSHALL 10 50 0 17
D. WILLY 5 72 0 30

Were we prepared for Willy running QB draw plays? Umm ... Nope. Simple, creative thinking by O'Shea's crew. Sitting duck thinking by Mark W in his game planning.
...................

Playing pressure defence. Not every coach can do it. It takes a leap of faith. Seen it in football. Seen it in basketball.

Full court basketball press? Nah, we don't have the speed. Baloney.

Blitz the QB into submission?

Nah, we will play back in a zone. Make them complete 10 excellent plays in order to score. Baloney.

Or, we don't have the personnel to run it. Baloney.

A coach might not have the stomach to run it. That might be true, as it is for most coaches. A coach might not know how to run it. It can be uncomfortable to play pressure defence, but IMO, it is almost essential in the modern CFL.

Just IMO, as a fan of the CFL ...

[WestCoastJoe]

Team defence stats ...

Top defences at stopping the run.

Chris Jones, Edmonton

Orlando Steinhauer, Hamilton

Rich Stubler, Calgary

Edmonton and Hamilton also at the top in stopping the pass, along with Ottawa.

We look like bottom dwellers, along with Saskatchewan, and I guess that is what we are.

[B.C.FAN]

We have heard about Mark W over-coaching his charges.

That would not be a surprise. The desperate coach loads it on, but it is in an ineffective system.

Over-coaching. We heard that for years about a certain O-line coach. Making players think too much instead of reacting instinctively and using their athleticism. Where did that guy go? Oops, he's behind me.

It takes great speed and athleticism to play DB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. In man coverage, you run with your man and occasionally switch. In zone, you drop into your zone and don't jump the first route that comes your way, lest someone sneak behind you. Yet the Lions have given up a league-high 12 passes of 30 yards or more. The B.C. offence has completed only four such passes. The B.C. defence is on pace to give up twice as many big pass plays as they did last year under Mark Washington, with J.R. LaRose at safety. The big plays this year have been back-breakers. Some of them were against man coverage. That will happen with good execution between a QB and receiver, especially if matched against a slower or smaller defender. Most of the big plays have been given up by the Lions when they were in zone coverage. Players got mixed up or jumped shorter routes and left receivers open behind them. Inexperience is a factor. But the inexperienced players often look confused, and that's a deadly combination.

[WestCoastJoe]

We have heard about Mark W over-coaching his charges.

That would not be a surprise. The desperate coach loads it on, but it is in an ineffective system.

Over-coaching. We heard that for years about a certain O-line coach. Making players think too much instead of reacting instinctively and using their athleticism. Where did that guy go? Oops, he's behind me.

It takes great speed and athleticism to play DB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. In man coverage, you run with your man and occasionally switch. In zone, you drop into your zone and don't jump the first route that comes your way, lest someone sneak behind you. Yet the Lions have given up a league-high 12 passes of 30 yards or more. The B.C. offence has completed only four such passes. The B.C. defence is on pace to give up twice as many big pass plays as they did last year under Mark Washington, with J.R. LaRose at safety. The big plays this year have been back-breakers. Some of them were against man coverage. That will happen with good execution between a QB and receiver, especially if matched against a slower or smaller defender. Most of the big plays have been given up by the Lions when they were in zone coverage. Players got mixed up or jumped shorter routes and left receivers open behind them. Inexperience is a factor. But the inexperienced players often look confused, and that's a deadly combination.

Points well made, BCF.

[TheLionKing]

Is Rwabukamba an improvement over JR Larose ? Based on what I've seen the answer is No

[WestCoastJoe]

Brought over from the Post Game Thread ...

One has a hard time having hope about our defence. No pressure on the QB in the CFL? Ouch ... Total focus on pass coverage, to the detriment of other aspects of defence, especially pass rushing. And yet, is the pass coverage effective? Not in the least.

Development of players. Bighill and Elimimian. Yes. Very much so. Safety, in the years of Mark W? No. Other DBs? Backsliding, it seems to some observers.

D Line. Hardly the province of Mark W, but it seems to this fan, that the D Line is on its own, in terms of pressuring the QB, and stopping the run. Little or no help given. And that is an impossible assignment, it seems to me. "OK, you guys, get the QB, and stop the run. Oh yeah, also the occasional screen pass or QB draw. Those are also your responsibility. You will have to freelance it on those. We don't plan for them, but that is OK, because they are rare. The other 8 (or 9) guys will be back in zone pass coverage. Execute your assignments (here there and everywhere)." "Oh yeah, and on certain downs, one of you will be subbed, as we need more pass coverage downfield. So go with the three man rush, with all the usual responsibilities. Double-teamed? Five men blocking three? Deal with it."

We like the 3-1-8 Defence. New concept. Gonna be copied? Ummm ... No.

3 DL. Two DL get double-teamed. One might have the luxury of single blocking, if the RB does not stay in.

1 LB, Solomon, spying the entire backfield, while backpedaling in zone pass coverage.

8 DBs, including Bighill at Deep Safety. "Hey, Chris, good view from here. Any action come this way?" "Lots of running and chasing, Biggie."

Maybe just call it the "39." 3 DL. 9 DBs.

[B.C.FAN]

It looks like change is coming to the Lions' underperforming defence and T.J. Lee may be the first casualty. According to LU, Lee was removed as a starter in the secondary when the Lions took to the practice field Monday. With Ronnie Yell returning from injury to the boundary corner position, Cord Parks moves to halfback on that side, a position he played last year. Ryan Phillips and Steven Clarke will patrol the wide side for a second straight game. Jeff Tedford spoke about the changes:

“I think it’s a good combination,” Tedford said of the Parks-Yell tandem. “That’s what Cord gives us is the flexibility to move him around. Steven played well. There’s some flexibility (as) well.”

By any definition, Lions’ Lee could be out

I posted some comparative stats about the 2011 and 2015 Lions' defence in the most recent postgame thread, but they're worth repeating here. The first five games of 2015 resemble the first five games of 2011, with Mike Benevides as DC.

2011 YARDS PER GAME - FIRST 5 GAMES (CFL RANK)
Rush 129.6 (last)
Pass 304.4 (last)
Net 417.0 (last)

2015 YARDS PER GAME - FIRST 5 GAMES (CFL RANK)
Rush 130.6 (8th)
Pass 308.4 (last)
Net 424.6 (last)

The good news is that the 2011 Lions turned it around after the fifth game, due mainly to some personnel changes in the secondary, and led the league in defence for the rest of the season, finishing second overall in most categories and first overall in fewest points allowed, winning the West Division and the Grey Cup. A few more personnel changes may yet be needed but this move is similar to the main one made in 2011. Most importantly, if the coaches are confident that the secondary can hold its own, they may allow Adam Bighill and Solomon Elimimian to spend more time in the box instead of the secondary.

[WestCoastJoe]

Some words coming out of the Lions' camp ...

Be disciplined.

Stick to our stuff.

Execute.

We should be fine.
..............................

Would that it were so.

Five games in and we are last in defence.

It looks bad on the field. The results are bad. The statistics are bad. We do not get stops. We do not pressure the QB. We are weak against the run. We are vulnerable to long passes. We are vulnerable to screen passes. We are vulnerable to QB draws.

In other news, well, Wally seems to feel the defense is fine.
.................

Now, with Edmonton, they don't even talk that much about aggressive defence. Opposing coaches usually bring up the fact that the Eskimos play aggressive defence, and play it well.

So will we see some effective defence by us against the Schmos? That Orange Kool-Aid looks nice and fresh.

Offence? Well, I fully expect the aggressive defence of the Eskimos to give us big time problems. Pressure on the QB. Run stopping in the gaps. Gang tackling. Tight coverage on receivers.

Oh, well, but look at the players Jones has. Baloney. If he didn't have them, he would find them, and fast.

[David]

"At the end of it, it's about execution, right? I could point to 4-5 critical plays in the last game whereby, if we had made the plays like we were supposed to, the result would have been different. It's a simple game, right? A game we've been making very, very hard. I believe we have the players; they just have to stop making mistakes at crucial times. Let me ask you something. What would an airlift do at this point? Who would I bring in that's better than what I have now? Again, it's not about players, it's about execution."

That was my Wally Buono impression. While this is not a direct quote, it's more or less the same broken record we've been hearing at various times since 2009.


DH

[aklawitter]

"You know, at the end of it, it's about execution, you know, right? I could, you know, point to 4-5 critical plays, you know, in the last game whereby, you know, if, you know, we had made the plays like we were supposed to, the result, you know, would have been different, you know. You know, it's a simple game, right? A game we've been making, you know, very, very hard. I believe we, you know, have the players; they just have to stop making mistakes, you know, at crucial times. Let me ask you something. What would, you know, an airlift do at this point? Who would I bring in that's better, you know, than what I have now? Again, you know, it's not about players, you know, it's about execution, you know."

*Sekeres mumbles*

[DanoT]

When Wally starts saying "you know" a lot you know he is not confident in what he is saying.

[B.C.FAN]

More stats through Week 6 documenting the Lions' defensive woes:

In addition to ranking last in opponent yards per game (425), passing yards per game (308), rushing yards per game (131) and 30-yard pass plays surrendered (13), the Lions have forced the fewest 2-and outs (15): an average of just 3 per game.

The defence can take some solace in the fact it ranks marginally ahead of Saskatchewan in percentage of second down conversions allowed (57.8% vs. the Riders' league-worst 58.2%) and red-zone TDs allowed (63% vs. the Riders' 65%).

[Blitz]

More stats through Week 6 documenting the Lions' defensive woes:

In addition to ranking last in opponent yards per game (425), passing yards per game (308), rushing yards per game (131) and 30-yard pass plays surrendered (13), the Lions have forced the fewest 2-and outs (15): an average of just 3 per game.

The defence can take some solace in the fact it ranks marginally ahead of Saskatchewan in percentage of second down conversions allowed (57.8% vs. the Riders' league-worst 58.2%) and red-zone TDs allowed (63% vs. the Riders' 65%).

Wow!! Sure pleased that Wally felt that we couldn't afford to potentially lose Mark Washington so we axed Stubler, who only went on to play a key role in the Stamps Grey Cup winning season last year.`

Can`t remember our defense being this bad.

On offence, the main thing I remember last season is Khari Jones lining up our offence in an empty backfield, with Harris and Logan lined up as slots. I could just see Wally smiling up high, remembering with fondness his days of Doug Flutie in an empty backfield with Allan Pitts matched up against a linebacker. Only problem was that we didn`t have Flutie or Allan Pitts and it was 2014 and there were nickel backs and dime backs on defence and when the defense blitzed their two linebackers one had a free route to the quarterback and Glenn was snowed under. Of course the problem was Glenn and `lack of executio`n`.

On defense this year, just as we misused Harris and Logan at timed last season as slot backs and we are misusing Leonard this year as a wide slot receiver rather than as an H Back ( a combination of an extra full back and a tight end) we are misusing our personnel all over the place on defense this year.

We gave Westerman as a defensive end, with no previous experience at that position, Roh as an undersized defensive tackle with no experience in that position, our two best pass rushers (Smith, Bazzie) not on the field at the same time, Bjghill often dropping very deep as a second safety in pass coverage and Eliminian, instead of patrolling the middle and also accounting for the quarterback taking off we have him covering the wide underneath flat area at times.

Now, we are taking Lee out of the defensive short side halfback position and putting Cord Parks back there, even though he struggled there last year. But then again Parks was struggling at corner this year, when he excelled at that position under Stubler. Then we pine Lee, rather than put Lee back at corner, where he was excellent last season, as well as a very good ball hawk.

But then again, the problem is a lack of èxecution`.

[Toppy Vann]

Quite frankly the coaching in all 3 phases of the game isn't yet up to the level you need to win in the CFL.

Two coaches in point and I'm not hearing this from Jeff Tedford - as he is really really new to this version of the CFL and his opposing coaches.

The message from the HC doesn't suggest that he gets it either. The moves in the secondary seem to be to recreate 2011 again but as Blitz notes they were lighting up Parks this season. Strange goings on there.

Listen to the insights from coaches like Milanovich (quite long Q and A on their loss to Ham on TSN). His comments identify clearly what he thinks are issues and his analyses of each facet and the play of QBs, etc sums up to what they will focus on. Milanovich is pretty insightful and just doesn't think his team gave Hamilton a game. His message but within it the specifics that made the difference in the score. Also, going in the game he was quoted on the playing styles of the QBs and it was clear that he was aware of what Collaros would be asked to do by Hamilton

Kent Austin - equally insightful and clear not only on his team but going into the game on what he thought the Argos were trying to do with Trevor Harris.