BC vs. Calgary Game Day Thread

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WestCoastJoe
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SammyGreene wrote: I try not to read too much into the positives that come out of training camp or how poorly a team can look in a pre-season game. The one concern I had earlier on was when it was reported soon after camp started that Valli was a "lock" at one of the guard spots. Not exactly a great reflection of your talent level when an awfully inconsistent veteran is given that status. And last night's performance by the o-line supported my concerns. Lions need to remind me again why an o-lineman wasn't taken with their first pick in last month's draft especially with Fabien looking like a turnstile on that one blindside sack and subsequent fumble.
Agree about the draft. I have seen nothing nor heard anything to justify the pick of Ese in the 1st round. They say do not fall in love with a stock. Nor should a GM or personnel staff fall in love with a player for the draft.

If one team thinks they see 1st round value in a player (#5), while all the other teams see 2nd round value (#16 #17 or #18), which view is likely the more accurate?

As noted lots of "unlearning" needs to be done with our O Line, it seems. High draft picks such as Fabien and Valli and others look lost at times.

There were no shockers in that preseason game for me. I would say it probably went about as well as one could expect. A well oiled machine, Calgary, taking on a team undergoing huge change.
..............

Not sure what kind of running backs we have behind Andrew Harris.

Not sure what kind of kick returners we have.

Receivers should be OK. Burnham. Vizzi. Collie.

Not sure what kind of D Line we have.

I have a good idea of the kind of necessary work in front of Doug Malone with the O Line.

We did not get to see what the big H Backs can do with the ball.
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MexicoLionFan
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Boring game for sure.

Positives ...

Against the GC Champs, with their starters playing significant time, we were 6-6 for quite a while.

Jennings looked calm and cool.

Coverage guys were pretty good.

Kicking game should be an upgrade.

IMO we looked like a well coached team, with massive roster change, rookie QB starting, #1 and #2 and #3 QBs from last year unavailable. New systems.

Negatives ...

O Line needs lots of work to unlearn years of indoctrination with the Mad Scientist.

D Line looks smallish and rather easily pushed around.

Our D did not look threatening to an O Line that is missing two key guys.
...........

Preseason #1 ... no big deal. Saw some evidence of culture change. Saw some evidence of organization and professional coaching.

Hufnagel has been building the Stampeders since 2008, 7 years.

Tedford has been here working with the players for a month or two, with some unofficial stuff before training started. Not quite the time to panic, or even to judge the team by the somewhat ragged show Friday night.

That was no Gong Show last night. Lions fans have seen some of those over the years. I liked Eagle Keys as a coach. But after one shambles of a game he said: "We stumbled, bumbled and fell down." That kind of performance was a Gong Show. Not last night.
............

Final thought. If Benny was still in charge we would have been blown out like a last place team. Kind of like Montreal blew us out in the playoff game last year. The Montreal debacle was a Gong Show. Another year from Benny and we would have been the doormat of the league.

Just IMO ...

Excellent comments Joe, and ultimately I agree that there were signs of a good system being set in place, but it is going to take time with lots of new coaches and players. When you look at this game (and it really doesn't mean that much) most of the "problems" IMO, relate back to the Wally/Benevides era and not Tedford. There are some obvious issues regarding talent in key areas of the Lions (O and DLine) and yet the players that the Lions brought in (especially for the DLine) are very suspect on first inspection. I am not sure why Wally and Co. feel the need for us to be so small/light, especially between the ends.

But I will share this thought with everyone here today...if you are going to have a "short leash" mindset for this football team this season, then you are going to have a very frustrating experience. Training camp told us a lot, as did the game last night, this coaching staff is going to need TIME to implement their systems and CULTURE into place, and then both Wally and Tedford are going to have to re-examine their talent likely a few games into the season. I could easily see us starting out something like 1-4 and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. The CFL is what it is when it comes to roster sizes and preseason games. This is NOT an exact science over such a short period of time, and a brand new staff may likely need the first month of the season to fine tune what they want to see out of their team (perhaps the first half of the season!).

And remember, I have shared with all of you, ad nauseam, the slim chances that Lulay has returning from these series of injuries to his same throwing shoulder. Having gone through it myself, I know what I know...I don't want to de a "downer" about it, but the reality is that even if Lulay's shoulder can stand up to the strain of throwing and taking hits, his mechanics (which were never that good) simply won't be the same. And the TWO MAIN COMPONENTS to go first will be velocity and accuracy. And when you throw a football that big, on a field that large, you need to make accurate, quick, hard throws! So, IMO, the Lions are going into this season with THREE inexperienced QBs, adding to the massive change and confusion!

I firmly believe that we are going to be alright under Jeff Tedford and company, BUT it is going to take TIME! And the BC Lion's fans need to give Telford the benefit of the doubt, and the time to let him "re do" what was set in place here over the last 4 years. If we are 3-6 at the half way point, with the personnel Tedford wants in place and his culture being adhered to, I would call that a SUCCESS. Now, what will the rest of the Lion's fans do, as there is NO QUICK FIX for these problems...sorry!!!
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Rammer
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Whoever said that the Lions didn't look like they had the quality players for this preseason game vs last year is correct. Who stood out for the Lions that was new....just Jennings and thankfully so, as it sounds as if he is the guy to start the season. Oh, our kicking game also looked good, but that is two good recruits that the Lions only have room for one on the roster. I am really glad that the punting looks as good as it does, with high punts that will give the cover team enough time to pin the opposition. It is also important that the punt team excels as it looks like the Lions will be doing a lot of punting this season, they will get lots of practice to get better even.

Concerns from last season have once again spilled over into the new season, no need to dwell on it as it looks like only new personnel will solve this issue. "The real positive was that the Stamps didn't look very good either, considering the roster that the Lions brought to the game. Lions will have to build through the season, the positive being that they shouldn't fall in love with many players so they will be airlifting new troops in to find a gem or two.
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Thought it interesting that Brandon Boudreaux, a free agent signing earlier this year, got a sack last night against the Lions. I wonder if he was ever considered by the brain trust as a potential Lion...
Speaking of airlifting players, what happened to former Riders defensive tackle, Trevor Guyton? He was a free agent earlier this year but didn't get signed.
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logan having a great game at returner for als tonite.
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Like other posters, there were things I liked about the game, and things I disliked

QB: Pretty sure Lulay won't make it, and my opinion is that John Beck throws too awkwardly to play in the CFL. I think Jennings will end up being the QB, and that may be a good thing from what he showed.

RB: One poster thought you should stand out a little at this point like Antolin did last year. They're right. I saw nothing there, and you know, American RB's are readily available.

REC: We have enough receivers to see if someone will take Shawn Gore off our hands. Some hard decisions here, which is good.

OL: What happened to Matt Norman and Kirby Fabien? I thought they were going to be solid, and now, I'd place them behind Dean Valli. And yes, I feel the same way about Dean as some other posters do. As far as American linemen go, where are they? I don't know that our recruiting is up to snuff here.

K: They had to change from McCallum to someone with a younger leg, so one of these guys, faults and all will have to do.

RETURNERS: That's the best they can do?

DL: Thought Menard was prominent, either making some tough plays, or maybe getting run over? The radio guys thought he played well. Other than that, it's difficult to tell what the thinking is here with Eric Taylor on another team.

LB: The Lions are solid here. Lokombo and Ellis-Hoffman looked good and they're not the starters.

DB: No issues here that I could see. Not sure how the National safety did, however.

CALGARY: Some posters did mention that the opposing team was the Grey Cup winner, etc, but I don't know that it's emphasized enough how deep this team is in talent. I think they've drafted some pretty solid Canadians over the last number of years. Even when the Lions were up against guys who won't be starting, I think they were up against some pretty good players. The next pre-season game may be a much better measure of where our team's at.
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Exhibition everyone the lions had there c team out there , no need to panic
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dupsdell1 wrote:Exhibition everyone the lions had there c team out there , no need to panic
True that, but what team is Lulay on, A, B, or C? Jennings reminds of Glenn in stature and arm ability, which isn't a bad thing, but he doesn't look to have escape speed, which is almost a necessity in the Lions backfield. I am not sure that the Lions do have an A team on the offensive side of the ball.

Rookie of the year is going to be a Lions kicker at this juncture, which is almost as bad as submitting your MOP as a kicker. Lions D is going to have to play lights out, and count on cover teams to gain yardage to them in the games.
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Blitz
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And remember, I have shared with all of you, ad nauseam, the slim chances that Lulay has returning from these series of injuries to his same throwing shoulder. Having gone through it myself, I know what I know...I don't want to de a "downer" about it, but the reality is that even if Lulay's shoulder can stand up to the strain of throwing and taking hits, his mechanics (which were never that good) simply won't be the same. And the TWO MAIN COMPONENTS to go first will be velocity and accuracy. And when you throw a football that big, on a field that large, you need to make accurate, quick, hard throws! So, IMO, the Lions are going into this season with THREE inexperienced QBs, adding to the massive change and confusion!

I firmly believe that we are going to be alright under Jeff Tedford and company, BUT it is going to take TIME! And the BC Lion's fans need to give Telford the benefit of the doubt, and the time to let him "re do" what was set in place here over the last 4 years. If we are 3-6 at the half way point, with the personnel Tedford wants in place and his culture being adhered to, I would call that a SUCCESS. Now, what will the rest of the Lion's fans do, as there is NO QUICK FIX for these problems...sorry!!! Rammer
Couldn't agree more. I will be positively surprised if Lulay starts in the season opener. Perhaps we will start him but not play him the whole game. Right now its sure a question mark. As you note, Rammer, Lulay's mechanics were never great before the shoulder injury and his velocity and accuracy will be effected.

This is going to take time with new systems and new coaches. I like most of our talent at the skilled positions. Overall, I like our Leos at linebacker, defensive back, receiver, running back and Leone can kick the football. The offensive and defensive line are question marks. I think we needed to go with an import center (I wanted us to draft one) and if our import left tackle position can solidify I see our offensive line being better this season.

However, I'm still worried about our defensive line and with the new pass coverage rules, a defense that can't get pressure quickly is going to have some tough games.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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dupsdell1 wrote:Exhibition everyone the lions had there c team out there , no need to panic
Concern maybe but definitely no need to panic. On one side of the field we have a team undergoing significant change with new HC, OC, OLC and DLC along with a new offensive scheme. Of the 64 players on the ex-game depth chart for Friday 40 were newcomers. Of the 24 starters for the exhibition game maybe 9 could be considered returning starters, none of whom would be BC's A-list starters. Some of them are adjusting to a different position than they played last year. On the other side you have the defending Grey Cup champs who return with a coaching staff that is totally intact save for the lone new face in DB coach Kahlil Carter. It's a veteran laden team working with the same coaching staff, schemes etc. One team is undergoing big changes everywhere. The other is just picking up from where they left off after sipping from Earl Grey's goblet last year.
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Blitz
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I looked at the game tape again and a few things stood out.

The first was how poised Jennings looked at quarterback, considering it was his first pro start. He played mostly against Calgary`s first team defence in the first quarter. He made some excellent throws. We had more passing yards than Calgary in the first half. Calgary also blitzed in the first half more than one would expect from a first exhibition game.

Secondly I thought the interior of our defensive line got very good push and penetration at times. Our pass rush was not mind blowing but we did get pressure most of the time. Calgary threw the football quickly on most occasions.

I was impressed with Josh Johnson, Tillman, and Lee on defense. On offence Burnham, Jeffers-Harris, and Vizzi all looked good in the slot and Collie ran some smart routes.

Our offensive line missed some blocks. Based on this game only, it was the weak spot of our team. Hopefully, with some changes in the starting lineup next game it will be better.

Patience is in order but I like our direction. We also looked like a more disciplined team. There was lots of communication on the sidelines between players, between coaches, and players and coaches. You could see the increased structure from last season. We have some areas to shore up and its going to be tough to get in the playoff in the West this season but overall, even with the loss n Calgary I feel much more optimistic this season than last. :thup:
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David
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Blitz wrote:....We also looked like a more disciplined team. There was lots of communication on the sidelines between players, between coaches, and players and coaches. You could see the increased structure from last season.
This is a good observation. I hate to pile on our former coach, but I shudder to think how many penalties we would have faced given the rule changes if things remained status quo. In fairness though, I also think the rookies came out with more fire in their bellies in the last preseason opener, which is a credit to Benevides' rah-rah style young guys seem to react well to. I still think he'd make an excellent CIS coach.


DH :cool:
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Blitz wrote:I looked at the game tape again and a few things stood out.

The first was how poised Jennings looked at quarterback, considering it was his first pro start. He played mostly against Calgary`s first team defence in the first quarter. He made some excellent throws. We had more passing yards than Calgary in the first half. Calgary also blitzed in the first half more than one would expect from a first exhibition game.

Secondly I thought the interior of our defensive line got very good push and penetration at times. Our pass rush was not mind blowing but we did get pressure most of the time. Calgary threw the football quickly on most occasions.

I was impressed with Josh Johnson, Tillman, and Lee on defense. On offence Burnham, Jeffers-Harris, and Vizzi all looked good in the slot and Collie ran some smart routes.

Our offensive line missed some blocks. Based on this game only, it was the weak spot of our team. Hopefully, with some changes in the starting lineup next game it will be better.

Patience is in order but I like our direction. We also looked like a more disciplined team. There was lots of communication on the sidelines between players, between coaches, and players and coaches. You could see the increased structure from last season. We have some areas to shore up and its going to be tough to get in the playoff in the West this season but overall, even with the loss n Calgary I feel much more optimistic this season than last. :thup:
I also looked at the game tape again, focusing on the offensive and defensive lines, linebackers and H-backs. T-Dre Player impressed me with solid, aggressive play at left guard in the second and fourth quarters. It was nice to see, considering the way he fell out of favour with the coaching staff after training camp last year.

As Blitz mentioned, there were some missed blocks but not all sacks and team losses were on the O-line. Cam Morrah was late to react to a safety blitz, resulting in a sack by Josh Bell. Travis Partridge needlessly drifted out of the pocket and into the path of DeQuinn Evans for a sack, when Josh Aladenoye had good protection. The Stamps ran a stunt that made Kirby Fabien look bad on a Deron Mayo sack and forced fumble, but I can't believe that was Fabien's responsibility. Josh Aladenoye chased the pinching end inside, forcing Fabien to try to chase down Mayo in the rush lane normally protected by Aladenoye.

I was disappointed the H-backs didn't get any touches. If Partridge had thrown underneath to a wide-open A.C. Leonard on his first series instead of forcing an ill-advised interception on the outside, he would have had a first-down and significant yards after the catch and Partridge might still have a job. In terms of formations, the H-backs were used primarily as slotbacks and downfield blockers. They also lined up as tight ends, especially in the short bunch formation, but the Lions did not run or throw effectively from that formation.

Defensively, one of the strengths of the Lions was the play of their four Canadian defensive ends. Jabar Westerman and David Menard got outside pressure, while rookie draft picks Ese Mrabure-Ajufo and Maxx Forde showed strength and toughness against Calgary's run game. The Lions had some great Canadian talent on the D-line in the days of Brent Johnson and Ricky Foley but I can't remember them ever going four deep, with all four players having legitimate shots at the roster.

The defensive tackle position was another story. Zach Minter, who was projected as a starter at defensive tackle, got blown up and pushed all over the field in the first half against Calgary's starting O-line. He did better in the third quarter against Calgary's backups with a strong bullrush sack that was credited to Alex Bazzie and good pursuit for a couple of tackles. The only inside linemen who made a positive impression were Jamarkus McFarland and Andre Monroe and that was only because they held their gaps. I don't have good feelings about this position group. A steady diet of Jon Cornish running behind Calgary's starting O-line would be deadly, even with Solomon Elimimian and Adam Bighill in the B.C lineup.

Linebacker play was much stronger. Josh Johnson at nickelback looked great, as did Bo Lokombo, who tied for the team lead with four defensive tackles and made plays all over the field while filling in for Adam Bighill at the WILL position, in addition to picking up a special teams tackle. Lokombo will be used in some defensive packages this year, especially against the run.

I thought Casey Chin looked good at middle linebacker in the second half and outplayed starter Alex Hoffman-Ellis, who often got caught out of position, resulting in some big Calgary plays. Chin showed great speed to chase down Calgary running back Keith Toston from the inside out and hold him to a one-yard gain.

With the quarterback position uncertain, the Lions will need strong defensive play to keep them in games as they did last year. Shoring up the interior of the defensive line should be their biggest priority if they want to be able to stop teams that run the ball effectively.
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I also looked at the game tape again, focusing on the offensive and defensive lines, linebackers and H-backs. B.C.Fan
Thanks for your astute observations B.C. Fan.

In response I concur that Lokombo was all over the field and its a good thing that we are going to have some special packages for him. I can also see us at times in a true three linebacker set with Sol E., Bighill, and Lokombo. It would be a good formation on first down against Calgary during the regular season.

Chin has made some strides forward from his rookie season. Right now Parks is our starting wide side corner but I thought Tillman looked excellent. We`ve brought in another Canadian safety for a look see. We now have four Nationals competing at that position.

I agree that not all of the sacks our quarterbacks endured was the fault of our offensive line. However, it was Fabian`s responsibility, based on that defensive alignment and stunt to slide outside on the pass block. on Mayo but he was late.

Like you B.C. Fan I watched how we used our H Back in different formations. We lined him up tight, in the tight slot, in the bunch, and as a normal receiver. We didn`t use the H Back in as much motion as I expected. It was interesting to see how we used the H Back for run blocking assignments. However, as you note, we really didn`t throw to him as we could have. Perhaps we`re holding back for the regular season.

I wouldn`t be surprised if we keep all four National defensive lineman. Cut day will not be an easy one in the Nationals area of our team. There are still a lot of questions as to who are two starting International tackles are going to be. I also thought we got some decent pressure off the edge and Westerman did not look out of place at defensive end, although I wondered about the move going into training camp.

I wonder if we are going to bring in an import center for the practice roster, after cutting Estes. If we had an injury, Thorn will be our center.

One thing that does surprise me going into this week is how we are dealing with our quarterbacks. Lulay said he would not have been able to start the season if the season began last Saturday. This week we are going to find out if we think he will be ready. Its cutting it close. At the same time we are going to be giving Beck the back up reps. Beck has put on 14 pounds of the 18 he lost but its not muscle. He`s missed most of training camp. I would much prefer to go into the regular season with Jennings, who has had a great camp and looked good in the first half against Calgary as our backup to Lulay and being ready to step in. Have to admit that I`m surprised with the direction we are going in this week at the quarterback position.
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Blitz wrote:
II wonder if we are going to bring in an import center for the practice roster, after cutting Estes. If we had an injury, Thorn will be our center.
I'm thinking that will be a luxury they won't be able to afford. It's very difficult to justify a PR spot to have a back up for one specific position. If they're going to have 3 INT starters, including 2 tackles if/when Steward returns, the priority would be having a 3rd import tackle either on the 46 or PR. Gotta think they will need a PR spot for McGhee, at least 1 each of NAT OL, INT receiver, DL and DB and possibly a spot for whomever finishes 2nd in the kicking battle. In the case of other positional players they tend to provide backup depth at multiple positions. Regardless one runs out of PR spots pretty quickly. I think if an injury hit they'd go with Thorn or move Norman back as a short-term measure while they airlift a new one in and get him up to speed.
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