Glen Suitor lions last in west

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CardiacKid
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I am thinking the prediction of last in the West is way too pessimistic; at the very least I believe the Lions will beat the Bombers and maybe even the Riders. The Eskimos and Stamps are too good and barring a total collapse, those two will be in 1st and 2nd at the end of the year.
Despite all the changes with the Lions, I think their overall team balance across offence, defines and special teams is better than the Bombers. Especially with the Bombers poor performance on defense and in particular the way they leaked yards on the ground. And we thought our o-line had a bad year...Drew Willy can easily be the next poster boy for season-ending injuries. The Riders might need an even bigger gut job on offence to fix their aging receiving corps (where the hell did Taj Smith disappear to last year?) and I am not sure if they will be able to sort out what their identity will be on offence.

I like the Lions' chances for 3rd.
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Toppy Vann
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One big unknown for BC are QBs. Same with Wpg based on last year. O'Shea is still an unknown to me as a HC as last year I couldn't get a clear line on his thinking/coaching.

Also BC's O line issues and newcomers and new HC who might take time to really get back into the Canadian game.

Injuries could be a factor as Edmonton saw when Reilly got hurt. Lulay - not liking the reports on his camp performance but he is doing more in TC than he was supposed to at this time based on statements from the Lions some time ago.

I can understand why media ranks them last. Lulay is just too banged up to hinge more on him and there's been no QB factory at work under Mike Benevides' reign of error.

Suitor doesn't himself make predictions but these things are meaningless or they wouldn't play the games.
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JohnHenry
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I'd take a wounded Lulay over Willy in Wpg. The Lions defence should still be solid, I don't see the Bombers moving ahead of us in the standings. It should be a toss-up between the Esks and Riders who are no better than the Lions...as long as Lulay, Reilly and Durant can stay vertical.

Not sure what an H-Back is...a TE I suppose? The knock on Morrah was his blocking or lack thereof. While in theory a huge receiver might "run over" a diminutive DB, much like a big-bruising FB who can power his way up the middle for big gains...except it rarely happens. Almost without exception CFL DB's and LB's are tremendous tacklers, regardless of their size. A 250-lb receiver or fullback would be flat on his back before he could turn up-field, more often or not. The CFL game is all about quickness, agility and speed. Being huge has limited advantage in most positions. Another factor is big receivers present a bigger target for defenders to hit. Many CFL receivers over 225-lbs (which is rare) end up spending much of the season on the IL.
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WestCoastJoe
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JohnHenry wrote:I'd take a wounded Lulay over Willy in Wpg. The Lions defence should still be solid, I don't see the Bombers moving ahead of us in the standings. It should be a toss-up between the Esks and Riders who are no better than the Lions...as long as Lulay, Reilly and Durant can stay vertical.

Not sure what an H-Back is...a TE I suppose? The knock on Morrah was his blocking or lack thereof. While in theory a huge receiver might "run over" a diminutive DB, much like a big-bruising FB who can power his way up the middle for big gains...except it rarely happens. Almost without exception CFL DB's and LB's are tremendous tacklers, regardless of their size. A 250-lb receiver or fullback would be flat on his back before he could turn up-field, more often or not. The CFL game is all about quickness, agility and speed. Being huge has limited advantage in most positions. Another factor is big receivers present a bigger target for defenders to hit. Many CFL receivers over 225-lbs (which is rare) end up spending much of the season on the IL.
Good to hear differing views, JH. For myself, I see H Backs as being something of a new idea going against the prevailing trend in the CFL. Presumably they will bring better blocking than a fullback placed at the LOS. They will present an inviting target for the QB compared to an OL brought in block. They will be harder to knock off the ball, or to knock the ball loose on short passes over the middle. I like the concept. Did we bring in the right guys? Gotta trust Tedford's judgment in this case, it seems to me. It is obviously his idea. These guys may be very effective against the "small, fast" CFL linebackers. We have not seen receivers of this size in the CFL, aside from the "fat" Nik Lewis. Ha ha ("Is Nik Lewis fat?" asked Korey Banks, a few years ago.)

It's the old football dynamic. Teams go huge. An innovative team goes fast to attack slowness. Teams go fast. An innovative team goes big to attack smallness. Round and round it goes, with advantage to the coach that adapts well and leads the parade. IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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TheLionKing
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Call them H backs whatever, they're still tight ends like Herman Harrison, Peter Dalla Riva, Henry Holt etc.
Blitz
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TheLionKing wrote:Call them H backs whatever, they're still tight ends like Herman Harrison, Peter Dalla Riva, Henry Holt etc.
They are..,.. but they are used differently at times in the hybrid role...put in motion behind the line of scrimmage and used as lead blockers. They are also bigger now than the Harrison's, Dalla Riva's, Harry Holts, Tony Gabriel's, Mel Profits, etc.

I wrote this on Stukes Chalk Talk on Lionbackers in 2007.
THE RETURN OF THE TIGHT END!!!!

Post by Blitz » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:12 pm

'AIR GUN' OFFENCE HAS SEEN IT"S DAY

The days of air gun football offence, with spread formations, empty backfields, ?run and shoot? or '?pass and catch? are slowly receding into obscurity. The Indianopolis Colts finally won the Superbowl when they recognized that running on third and three was going to be more successful, at times, than passing on third and three. Our Leos finally won the Grey Cup we'd been seeking for the past three seasons when they finally established a running attack to go along with an aggressive, smart, defense.

BALANCED OFFENCES ARE BACK IN VOGUE

Balanced offences are back in vogue! The recognition that the running game is critical to offensive success is firmly cemented in professional coaches heads again. The running game wears down defenses, keeps the opposition offence on the sidelines for longer periods of time, and sets up play action. It puts pressure on defensive backs and linebackers. If forces them to play both the run and the pass. Play action creates a special bind. It doesn't allow defensive lineman to tee off and do their favorite thing...search and destroy the quarterback! Balanced offences force defensive backs to do something more than backpedal and try to set up interceptions...they have to get bruised taking on big blockers and hard running backs.

Quarterbacks are appreciating it too, when their team has a balanced attack. While the introduction of the 'shotgun" gave them a little more time to look at different defensive blitzes and changing defensive formations they were still became sitting ducks, trying to get rid of the football that split second before the blitz. Their time in the pocket became shorter, as offences went with only five offensive blockers against six and seven man package blitzes. The beating they took increased (as we saw with Dave Dickenson two season ago) as they made their best decision of which of six recievers to throw to.

THE 'ACE" OR SINGLE BACK OFFENCE

However, teams are approaching it differently now. The single back offence now predominates in both the NFL and CFL. However, one difference, is that in the NFL, the tight end is even more in vogue. In fact NFL teams not only line up with one or two of them but some formations even include three tight ends (and we?re not just talking down at the goal line or short yardage situations. The stretch running play often relies on a single or double tight end set.

THE DAYS OF THE CFL TIGHT END

For a long time the tight end was a critical offensive position for CFL teams. Players like Pat Claridge, Herm Harrison, Peter Dalla Riva,Tony Gabriel, and Mel Profit played the position with skill and toughness. The position of tight end has been refered to by many football experts as the most difficult and demanding spot in football. A tight end must have the size and speed of a middle linebacker, the blocking ability of an offensive lineman, and the "hands" of a wide receiver.

PAT CLARIDGE WAS THE TOUGHEST LEO EVER!

At a B.C. Lions training camp a number of years ago Pat Claridge and I went out on the town for a few beers. Clariidge, was in my opinion, not only the Leos best tight end ever. He was also probably the toughest player to ever wear a Leos uniform. Talking about the tight end position with him was fascinating! However, the term tight end almost disappeared from the terminology of the CFL along with the position. In his day teams lined up with a tight end, a split end, and a flanker. CFL teams virtually eliminated the position as offensive coordinators moved to two lighter slot backs and two wide receivers, Eventually, the fullback was removed on second downs to bring in a fifth receiver. The transition continued to ?air gun? football with teams going with empty backfields and six receiver sets and the fullback position also almost disappeared from sight. Presently CFL teams have begun to return to a single back in the backfield. This was forced by CFL defenses bringing in extra defensive backs, blitzing the hell out of quarterbacks, or dropping nine into coverage. The running game became important again.

"JUMBO' SETS BEGIN THE PROCESS OF THE RETURN OF THE TIGHT END

In order to run more effectively teams in short yardage situations CFL teams began to bring in extra offensive lineman on short yardage situations. Often refered to as ?jumbo sets? these huge offensive lineman lined up as tight ends to help out with blocking. CFL teams did not have a player who was a pure tight end. CFL teams had slo tbacks on their roster who were light and fast but not built for tough line blocking. The experimenting continued with defensive ends as Brent Johnson, who were faster than most offensive lineman, being used as tight ends in short yardage situations. They could block effectively and also had the quickness to slip out into a pass pattern to catch a defense ?napping?! The touchdowns scored by these ?surrogate? tight ends were not only effective but also popular with players and fans.

CFL OFFENCES BEGIN TO USE TIGHT END SETS

CFL teams have recently began to use more single and double tight end formations on regular downs to improve their running game. With the inability to use players both ways, except in short yardage situations, the double tight formations have usually involved extra offensive lineman. While helping out the running game these offensive lineman do not have the ability to also double as pass recieivers and their role has been limited to blocking for the single back in the 'ace' backfield. However, the utilization of these formations will ultimately lead to the return of the 'pure' tight end again.

THE TIME HAS ARRIVED

The time has arrived for the reintroduction of the tight end into the CFL offensive thought process. A pure tight end or two on an offence can very effectivly block for the running game and also be a threat in the passing game. They can split out at the last second to spread out the field. They provide difficult match up problems to today's light, fast, smaller defensive backs. They make it more difficult for defenses to key pass or run.

TIGHT END FORMATIONS THAT CAUSE MATCH UP PROBLEMS!

The initial alignment floods the right side of the formation with four eligible receivers (three receivers and one tight end or four receivers) and no one split wide at the far side of the field. But pre-snap, the right tight end splits wide. Suddenly, the defense is placed in a difficult situation. If the defense is going with extra defensive backs the offence can run the football very effectively with this formation. However, if the defense has stayed with a regular five defensive back set up you have forced single coverage or if they are double covering a receiver the offense will have forced a linebacker to cover one of the receivers.

A second formation involves two tight ends, two wide receivers and a slotbak or fifth receiver. The two wide receivers line up close to the tight ends. On one side it will look like a bunch formation.These ?tight? receivers are in great position to attack the weaknesses in two-deep coverage schemes. The formation, known as an 'Ace Tight' allows the receivers to block effectively for the running game. A cornerback aligned head-up on the receiver is vulnerable to a corner route, . The tight formation gives the receiver extra room to run after he makes his break on the corner route or other sideline routes. It also allows the opportunity to get a tight end lined up against a linebacker who can be taken deep.

A third offensive formation involves a three tight end look. Defenses generally think of a one or two tight end formation as a running formation. Three tight ends will definitely cause all kinds of hell for today?s lighter CFL defenses. However an offence can be unpredictable in a three-tight end package and the tight ends can be dangerous weapons in the passing game as well.

There are of course many more formations that can utilize two or three tight end sets. The flexibility of having a tight end who can line up tight and block or release on a pass pattern... or split out and take it deep or block down inside on linebackers is a tremendous weapon.

THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING!

CFL offenses got ahead of CFL defenses when they eliminated their tight ends and fullbacks and isolated fast slotbacks and fifth recivers on slower linebackers. They overwhelmed what were very one dimensional defenses at the time. No longer! CFL scoring was down big time this season as I predicted. Defenses, using specialists as sixth, seventh, and eight defensive backs, 'tweener' linebacekers (converted defensive backs) who can cover and blitz, and multiple defensive formations which utilize three down lineman while using combination man/zone coverages or blitzing fast defensive backs and linebackers against only five blockers has taken away the advantage offences once enjoyed.

DEFENSES WILL LOSE THEIR PRESENT ADVANTAGES

The reintroduction of the tight end position will cause all kinds of problems for defenses. They will find it challenging because they will not have the personel to do it. The tight end position will cause all kinds of headaches stopping the running attack with small defensive backs, light defensive ends, and 'tweener' linebackers. More importantly they won't have the ability to change defensive personel when a fifth or sixth receiver comes in. With three fast receivers and two multipurpose tight ends who can line up tight or split out, block for the running attack, also catch the ball in a crowd over the middle or take it deep..defenses will lose the advantage they presently have.

THE TIGHT END AS AN ALL PUROSE WEAPON

Multi-tight end sets are everywhere in the NFL and they are being used in every possible situation. And as U.S.colleges keep churning out tight ends who are as bigger than fullbacks and as fast as wide receivers CFL offensive coordinators will need to develop offensive schemes to use these athletic specimens as all-purpose weapons. The CIS will eventually do the same when they begin to see tight ends remerge in the CFL.

JASON CLERMONT IS A PROTYPE CFL TIGHT END

In the CFL, the tight end is still a glorified right tackle or defensive player who only plays in short-yardage situations or predictable running situations. There are outstanding tight ends out there who can block, run routes, and sprint up the seam on a deep route just when you least expect it. The pure tight end will return to the CFL. He will be able to lineup tight or split out. He will look more like a Jason Clermont who was used lined up tight against Montreal this year and will also be split out as Clermont was at times during that game.

WRAP

The brief glimpse of Clermont this season as a tight end was something that needs to happen more and will once an offensive coordinator is able to break the present CFL mould. Hufnagel and Cortez broke a mould in Calgary when brought in a different style of offence that was innovative at the time. The time has arrived for that kind of innovation again but in a different way. Pat Claridge....we hope you'll be watching when it happens!!!
It's been a long wait!!!!


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Hambone
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Blitz wrote:They are..,.. but they are used differently at times in the hybrid role...put in motion behind the line of scrimmage and used as lead blockers. They are also bigger now than the Harrison's, Dalla Riva's, Harry Holts, Tony Gabriel's, Mel Profits, etc.
"Ham Hands" Harrison listed at 6'3" 210, about the same size as Manny Arceneaux. Gabriel was an inch taller than Harrison but same 210 weight. Dalla Riva was a bit of a tweener at 6'3" 225. The others were bigger and closer to prototypical TE size of their era. Profit was 6'5" 235 and Holt 6'4" 236. Keep in mind an average sized offensive lineman in the 60s and early 70s went around 250# compared to the 300# hoggies of today.
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Lions4ever
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CardiacKid wrote:
I like the Lions' chances for 3rd.
I still say the crossover's the ticket.
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Lions4ever wrote:
CardiacKid wrote:
I like the Lions' chances for 3rd.
I still say the crossover's the ticket.
A good chance of that, given that the Argos are likely to have a really terrible season. Ricky Ray is nowhere close to being ready following his off season shoulder surgery (sound familiar?). Everything depends on how Trevor Harris adapts to being in the starting role. (If they hadn't let go of Collaros it would be a different story.)

Ottawa is not likely to be a serious playoff contender again this year.
Blitz
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Hambone wrote:
Blitz wrote:They are..,.. but they are used differently at times in the hybrid role...put in motion behind the line of scrimmage and used as lead blockers. They are also bigger now than the Harrison's, Dalla Riva's, Harry Holts, Tony Gabriel's, Mel Profits, etc.
"Ham Hands" Harrison listed at 6'3" 210, about the same size as Manny Arceneaux. Gabriel was an inch taller than Harrison but same 210 weight. Dalla Riva was a bit of a tweener at 6'3" 225. The others were bigger and closer to prototypical TE size of their era. Profit was 6'5" 235 and Holt 6'4" 236. Keep in mind an average sized offensive lineman in the 60s and early 70s went around 250# compared to the 300# hoggies of today.
I agree Hambone...they were good sized players for their era.

I like the H Back concept because it offers numerous advantages as well as its not going to be like almost every other offence in the CFL, which uses a lot of spread...and therefore defenses will have more of a challenge preparing for it.

What I like about the H back is that the player who occupies this role is not only bigger than a fullback as a blocker but the player also has receiver skills.

Certainly some teams will use a fullback or an offensive lineman as a tight end on first downs or on running downs. Chap used a lot of power sets on first downs, often using Lumbala and an extra offensive lineman. The offence then takes out the fullback and tight end and goes five receiver set on second down. The problem is that the defensive coordinator looks at who is coming in on offence and adjusts accordingly.

What Tedford wants to do is go up tempo. If the defense has a lot of nickel and dime backs in formation he can set up in a power formation and run the football. Or if the defense is using 3 linebackers he can go spread. The up tempo does not enable the defense to substitute while the H Back position allows the offence to line up in power or spread, depending on the defensive personell on the field.

What will be interesting is how often we go with an ace back and an H back formation and how often we go with an ace back, fullback, and H back formation. Lumbala's role this season will be predicated on which formation and offensive personnel Tedford and Cortez prefer on the field.

Its interesting to see Tedford and Cortez working together again. They really turned California around but then Tedford fired Cortez in California to bring in a spread offensive coordinator who he believed was cutting edge. Now Tedford hires Cortez, who had been using the spread in Saskatchewan to go with an H Back style offence.

One thing for sure. The H Back will be such an integral part of our offence this season that we will have to have a back up H back on the practice roster in case our starter (either Morrah or Leonard (who is looking good) gets hurt. That`s why Tedford recently brought in another tight end to training camp so there are now 3 players competing for the position.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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