It's my understanding that black out regulations are such that only basic cable service channels can be blacked out. TSN SD falls under that. TSN HD is considered an optional extra-cost channel, so currently is exempt.DanoT wrote:I'm not a tech person so I don't have much knowledge on the subject but why can't they come up with a method of blacking out local HD TV? Both the CFL and NFL and possibly other leagues would benefit but I guess the TV networks don't have a vested interest in blacking out local broadcasts.
2015 All Things Lions Marketing & Promotions
Moderator: Team Captains
I always PVR Whitecaps games and FF through most of it. It usually takes me about 20 minutes to watch it.TheLionKing wrote:I watched part of the Whitecap game against Orlando yesterday. Boring ......... guys diving etc. Give me football any day of the week
To me, the level of play in MLS is not yet there. EPL and Bundesliga (the all-German Champions League final in 2013 was one of the most entertaining sports events I've ever seen) is something I will watch all of. Soccer in the rest of the world is far too tolerant of diving as a tactic.
The NFL announced today that it will not black out any games in 2015, regardless of advance ticket sales. That seems to put all pro sports leagues on the equal footing. Every game will be available everywhere on HD TV. That's the new reality. They all have to deal with it.
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The issue of blackout was discussed by Skulsky at the Tedford Talks yesterday. It appears that Skulsky is resigned to the fact HD TV is here to stay. He mentioned that fans attending games will experience an atmosphere or see things that an average fan sitting on their couch cannot see or experience. Further stated that the Lions are working on some new things for the fans at the game.
Further to my post the other day on mothballing the "Pride" advertising campaign as it's too passive, they need to connect to casual fans in a more direct way.
I mentioned that testimonials (they're enjoying it therefore I will too) is an effective advertising vehicle. I also strongly believe that the couch watchers need to be convinced that there's nothing like the live experience.
They should prominently featured an interior shot of the Lions playing at BCP with its giant screen with the heading, "The Ultimate Fan Cave."
DH
I mentioned that testimonials (they're enjoying it therefore I will too) is an effective advertising vehicle. I also strongly believe that the couch watchers need to be convinced that there's nothing like the live experience.
They should prominently featured an interior shot of the Lions playing at BCP with its giant screen with the heading, "The Ultimate Fan Cave."
DH
Roar, You Lions, Roar
I love it. Show lots of fans in face paint banging drums and exchanging high-fives, closeups of Felions dancing and anything else that creates a special atmosphere in the stadium. You can't get that experience at home.David wrote:They should prominently featured an interior shot of the Lions playing at BCP with its giant screen with the heading, "The Ultimate Fan Cave."
DH
I went back and had a listen to the first hour of BMac and Taylor (and Moj) from that day two weeks ago where they were kicking that question around (audio here), particularly in the first segment which dealt mostly with this issue.SammyGreene wrote:As far as the Seahawks, someone on twitter made a great point when TSN 1040 started that stupid poll a couple of weeks ago about which team is No. 2 in Vancouver. He suggested how would the Whitecaps be able to compete if watching Barcelona or Manchester United on a regular basis was a 2 hour drive south for soccer fans?
DT, who has always struck me as the one of the biggest Lions' supporters on 1040 if not the entire media class in this town, was pretty vocal about not caring the Whitecaps' marketing style. He accused them of bashing both the Canucks and the Lions with their "the best sporting atmosphere in town" message and openly speculated on whether this turns off some people who follow these other teams and might otherwise buy Caps tickets, pointing out that the NBA Grizzlies used this tactic and it backfired on them. DT was getting a bit fiery over this, even mentioning how tiresome it is hearing some soccer fans in this market declaring that their sport is going to "take over" (his phrase not mine) and surpass even the Canucks, never mind the Lions (Moj had just read a text/email from a Caps fan to such effect). He even put it out there that "it's like people want the Lions to die in this town" (that's an EXACT quote from him by the way). BMac quickly disagreed but DT held his ground and even singled out Mayenknecht as holding this view.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
I like the idea, just not sure "cave" is the best word to describe the BCP atmosphere to get fans to buy tickets. I know it's supposed to be riffing on the phrase "man cave", I'm just not sure it necessarily comes across that way.B.C.FAN wrote:I love it. Show lots of fans in face paint banging drums and exchanging high-fives, closeups of Felions dancing and anything else that creates a special atmosphere in the stadium. You can' get that experience at home.David wrote:They should prominently featured an interior shot of the Lions playing at BCP with its giant screen with the heading, "The Ultimate Fan Cave."
DH
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
To each his own sj-roc (and I don't take it personally) but I think you might be taking "The Ultimate Fan Cave" play on words idea a little too literally. Yes, absolutely I am riffing on "man cave," but I think it's a term that very positively resonates with just about any guy. And "fan cave" is gender neutral. It connotes "advanced," "high tech," "big time," etc - all words they want to convey to the average fan that watches at home.
To B.C.FAN's point, yes, it's not just about showing the big screen and flashy ribbon around the stadium. It's about the fan experience. Show people of all ages, families, guys with painted faces, people smiling, having fun and seeing themselves on the giant scoreboard. Players' outstanding athletic exploits on the field to a roaring crowd, and having fun on the sidelines too. In short, they need to sell the experience which can't be replicated on the couch.
DH
To B.C.FAN's point, yes, it's not just about showing the big screen and flashy ribbon around the stadium. It's about the fan experience. Show people of all ages, families, guys with painted faces, people smiling, having fun and seeing themselves on the giant scoreboard. Players' outstanding athletic exploits on the field to a roaring crowd, and having fun on the sidelines too. In short, they need to sell the experience which can't be replicated on the couch.
DH
Roar, You Lions, Roar
Yeah I could be wrong — but it did strike me as a bit ironic nonetheless that a phrase with a word like cave, which normally designates something fairly primitive (think "living in a cave" as a metaphor to describe someone who's not up on all the latest news and trends), has been co-opted into describing something cutting edge. I'd have to see it put into action with sound and visuals before deciding whether it made the correct connotation for me. As mere words on a screen, it didn't leap right out at me, but there's more to it than that in the full intended message.David wrote:To each his own sj-roc (and I don't take it personally) but I think you might be taking "The Ultimate Fan Cave" play on words idea a little too literally. Yes, absolutely I am riffing on "man cave," but I think it's a term that very positively resonates with just about any guy. And "fan cave" is gender neutral. It connotes "advanced," "high tech," "big time," etc - all words they want to convey to the average fan that watches at home.
To B.C.FAN's point, yes, it's not just about showing the big screen and flashy ribbon around the stadium. It's about the fan experience. Show people of all ages, families, guys with painted faces, people smiling, having fun and seeing themselves on the giant scoreboard. Players' outstanding athletic exploits on the field to a roaring crowd, and having fun on the sidelines too. In short, they need to sell the experience which can't be replicated on the couch.
DH
EDIT: I think what got my mind going down the negative path was how we've so often talked about how cavernous the place is when the crowds are small. I'd want to focus group it before greenlighting it as an ad campaign but it could very well indeed catch on.
Something else the Lions ought to be doing and you've even said this yourself many times: promote the players.
Here's an example where they're NOT doing this: if you go to the team's website these days, you get a splash page with this image of the schedule.
Nice, but who's that player? I guess it's supposed to be Andrew Harris, but I can't really say for sure because (a) it doesn't give his name, (b) the helmet obscures his face and (c) the ball obscures his jersey number. Is he in the witness protection program now? Really strikes me as a missed opportunity. I suppose if you wanted to go all out, you'd feature your double MOP/MODP award winner in #56 Sol-El, but AH would suffice for this purpose. If only they would let us know that's who it is.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
This isn't completely Lions-related, but I've argued several times on this board that the factors that drive the gate at Lions' games are often ones that transcend football and also affect attendance/participation in other events that entail spending of discretionary dollars. Here's an article from the Westender that appeared during the recent Canucks-Flames first-round Stanley Cup series. The writer identifies several reasons for no longer wanting to attend Canucks games and many of these are the same ones that have been given, in this thread and elsewhere on this board, for not attending Lions games.
http://www.westender.com/news/why-grant ... -1.1829066
http://www.westender.com/news/why-grant ... -1.1829066
Why Grant Lawrence won't go see a Canucks game with you
Die-hard Canucks fan Grant Lawrence says he is over the arena scene.
April 20, 2015
Grant Lawrence — Westender
Don't get me wrong. I'm completely thrilled that the Vancouver Canucks are back in the playoffs, and I desperately want them to beat the Calgary Flames. I hope this Canucks team goes on a deep run, and I'll watch every game I can, hopefully to an ultimately glorious conclusion that I dare not type out for fear of jinxing it.
I've been a die-hard Canucks fan for many decades, and have spilled my guts in print all about it. My parents were original season ticket holders for many thankless years, and the three times the Canucks made it to the Stanley Cup Finals were the greatest spring seasons of my life (until it ended, of course; unlike the bridge and tunnel crowd, I actually think lighting cars on fire and looting The Bay is stupid). I'm also a goalie on a beer league hockey team called the Vancouver Flying Vees, which is a skating tribute to Canucks lore. And for most of the year, I'm usually wearing some sort of Canucks paraphernalia.
But... I don't want to go to the Canucks game with you. No offence, and I'm not talking about Linden Vey. It's just that, after many years of dutifully showing up for games at the Pacific Coliseum, GM Place, and now Rogers Arena, I'm done. Let me explain.
I don't want to go to the Canucks game with you because I am so, so over the arena scene, and it has nothing to do with the product on the ice. I know it sounds elitist and negative, but it has everything to do with everything else about going to a Canucks game.
I'm done with navigating past the burly scalpers barking in my face. I'm done with the unhealthy, narrow food choices (what the hell are churros anyway?) I’m done with the overpriced and under poured beer. I'm done with lining up with 700 other men in order to urinate. I’m done with making noise when I’m told to as opposed to when I’m inspired to. I'm done with rink seats so small that you have to fold your rib cage inwards while the drunk dude from Port Moody you're sitting beside is draped over half your body. I'm done with the anticipatory guy, three rows ahead of you, who stands up and blocks your view every time the Canucks even remotely get a scoring chance. I'm done with men in suits who force their kids to leave the rink with seven minutes left in the third period to beat the traffic (it's sports: it's not over 'til it's over, at least let your kids see every minute). I'm done with assholes who dump popcorn or worse on anyone wearing the opposing team's jersey. I'm also -ahem- done with making small talk with you for four hours.
At this stage of my life (earliest of early 40s, new dad, East Van, blah, blah), I would much, much rather watch the game in my own controlled environment: my fortress of solitude, at home, on TV, in HD, while spread out on a spacious and comfortable couch. Twitter is on the laptop, while Jim Hughson calls every play in every way on Hockey Night In Canada. I can drink my own craft beer from a nice full, cold bottle. I can pee alone, and at my leisure. I can eat healthy, inexpensive food that includes actual vegetables. And no one from Port Moody can touch me.
As a lifelong Canucks fan, this is just how I feel. Don't get defensive about this. Leave that to Dan Hamhuis. And… GO CANUCKS GO!
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
I've just been taking part in an in-depth, online sports fan survey where they want to gauge things like which leagues have the most devoted following, which leagues have more TV viewers than live attendees, etc. One pointed question that caught my eye was "I enjoy going to sporting events even if I'm not that knowledgeable about the sport or the team", and you have to indicate whether you strongly agree, agree, neither agree nor disagree, disagree, strongly disagree with the statement. Once I identified the CFL as my favourite league, the survey focussed on the league the rest of the way with specific CFL questions (e.g., fave team, interest level in draft), on the Lions (presumably because that's who I selected) and on sports-related activities (participating in pools/fantasy leagues, gambling on game outcomes, viewing games in person/at home/in a bar, following athletes on social media). Tons of really good questions, actually — about the sort of stuff we discuss all the time in threads like this, about ticket pricing, game day atmosphere, quality of concessions, team outreach to the community, etc, etc.
I have no idea who's conducting the survey (or on whose behalf it's being conducted) but I'd like to see the results get some run in the mainstream media once they crunch all the data. OTOH it may be simply a private survey where it won't even be disclosed that the survey was undertaken let alone its results.
I'd like to see the results of the above question of knowledgeability among people who attend Lions games; it would give some idea of how many casual fans are coming to games, although we probably have a bit of a clue based on how the attendance numbers have fluctuated the last few years. There were other rather pointed questions such as:
"Which statement comes closest to describing how you feel about the CFL?" with four options ranging from "I am a big fan and I watch as many games as I can" to "I'm not interested at all and I never watch games".
On a scale of 1-9: how strongly do you agree that "I watch or follow the BC Lions because I am an NFL fan more than a CFL fan, but will watch my local CFL team because I enjoy football."?
"What is one thing your local CFL team could do to improve the in-game experience?" which required a written response in your own words.
And of course, they also had the oft-discussed income question.
EDIT: I wrote the above as I was progressing through the survey but in retrospect the survey seemed specifically re: the CFL rather than sports in general. The broader questions near the beginning were likely a way to filter out those with little to no CFL interest and focus on those with higher interest levels, varying from the fans who watch on TV only (and only occasionally at that) to perennial STHs (although oddly, I was never asked if I was a STH).
I have no idea who's conducting the survey (or on whose behalf it's being conducted) but I'd like to see the results get some run in the mainstream media once they crunch all the data. OTOH it may be simply a private survey where it won't even be disclosed that the survey was undertaken let alone its results.
I'd like to see the results of the above question of knowledgeability among people who attend Lions games; it would give some idea of how many casual fans are coming to games, although we probably have a bit of a clue based on how the attendance numbers have fluctuated the last few years. There were other rather pointed questions such as:
"Which statement comes closest to describing how you feel about the CFL?" with four options ranging from "I am a big fan and I watch as many games as I can" to "I'm not interested at all and I never watch games".
On a scale of 1-9: how strongly do you agree that "I watch or follow the BC Lions because I am an NFL fan more than a CFL fan, but will watch my local CFL team because I enjoy football."?
"What is one thing your local CFL team could do to improve the in-game experience?" which required a written response in your own words.
And of course, they also had the oft-discussed income question.
EDIT: I wrote the above as I was progressing through the survey but in retrospect the survey seemed specifically re: the CFL rather than sports in general. The broader questions near the beginning were likely a way to filter out those with little to no CFL interest and focus on those with higher interest levels, varying from the fans who watch on TV only (and only occasionally at that) to perennial STHs (although oddly, I was never asked if I was a STH).
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
- Toppy Vann
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It might be to filter or it might be more than one client wanting to exact more information on their potential customer base.
Masking the client is done in some surveys to (theoretically) get unbiased views broken down more sharply.
Incidentally one of my favourite themes is how other sports and pro leagues market across the globe. At an event in Hong Kong the other night I met someone who tells me that the Canadiens will be doing just that in Beijing in August.
Russell Crowe - actor and team owner - was speaking on CNN about his rugby team winning and that sort of global marketinig.
Masking the client is done in some surveys to (theoretically) get unbiased views broken down more sharply.
Incidentally one of my favourite themes is how other sports and pro leagues market across the globe. At an event in Hong Kong the other night I met someone who tells me that the Canadiens will be doing just that in Beijing in August.
Russell Crowe - actor and team owner - was speaking on CNN about his rugby team winning and that sort of global marketinig.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
True; had I indicated the NHL as my fave league early on, the rest of the Qs might have focussed thereon. Same with team.Toppy Vann wrote:It might be to filter or it might be more than one client wanting to exact more information on their potential customer base.
Masking the client is done in some surveys to (theoretically) get unbiased views broken down more sharply.
Many Qs seem to be repeated in the course of the survey but I think this was actually different framing of the same Qs, which can affect the answers, as I've mentioned several times before. A treatment for a cancer (one with an otherwise 100% mortality rate) that cures 95% of patients will always be more popular than a treatment where 5% of the patients die.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
- Lions4ever
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- Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 7:25 pm
- Location: Vancouver Island
Guy sounds like a complete tool. Fine. Stay home. Do us all a favour.sj-roc wrote:This isn't completely Lions-related, but I've argued several times on this board that the factors that drive the gate at Lions' games are often ones that transcend football and also affect attendance/participation in other events that entail spending of discretionary dollars. Here's an article from the Westender that appeared during the recent Canucks-Flames first-round Stanley Cup series. The writer identifies several reasons for no longer wanting to attend Canucks games and many of these are the same ones that have been given, in this thread and elsewhere on this board, for not attending Lions games.
http://www.westender.com/news/why-grant ... -1.1829066
Why Grant Lawrence won't go see a Canucks game with you
Die-hard Canucks fan Grant Lawrence says he is over the arena scene.
April 20, 2015
Grant Lawrence — Westender
Don't get me wrong. I'm completely thrilled that the Vancouver Canucks are back in the playoffs, and I desperately want them to beat the Calgary Flames. I hope this Canucks team goes on a deep run, and I'll watch every game I can, hopefully to an ultimately glorious conclusion that I dare not type out for fear of jinxing it.
I've been a die-hard Canucks fan for many decades, and have spilled my guts in print all about it. My parents were original season ticket holders for many thankless years, and the three times the Canucks made it to the Stanley Cup Finals were the greatest spring seasons of my life (until it ended, of course; unlike the bridge and tunnel crowd, I actually think lighting cars on fire and looting The Bay is stupid). I'm also a goalie on a beer league hockey team called the Vancouver Flying Vees, which is a skating tribute to Canucks lore. And for most of the year, I'm usually wearing some sort of Canucks paraphernalia.
But... I don't want to go to the Canucks game with you. No offence, and I'm not talking about Linden Vey. It's just that, after many years of dutifully showing up for games at the Pacific Coliseum, GM Place, and now Rogers Arena, I'm done. Let me explain.
I don't want to go to the Canucks game with you because I am so, so over the arena scene, and it has nothing to do with the product on the ice. I know it sounds elitist and negative, but it has everything to do with everything else about going to a Canucks game.
I'm done with navigating past the burly scalpers barking in my face. I'm done with the unhealthy, narrow food choices (what the hell are churros anyway?) I’m done with the overpriced and under poured beer. I'm done with lining up with 700 other men in order to urinate. I’m done with making noise when I’m told to as opposed to when I’m inspired to. I'm done with rink seats so small that you have to fold your rib cage inwards while the drunk dude from Port Moody you're sitting beside is draped over half your body. I'm done with the anticipatory guy, three rows ahead of you, who stands up and blocks your view every time the Canucks even remotely get a scoring chance. I'm done with men in suits who force their kids to leave the rink with seven minutes left in the third period to beat the traffic (it's sports: it's not over 'til it's over, at least let your kids see every minute). I'm done with assholes who dump popcorn or worse on anyone wearing the opposing team's jersey. I'm also -ahem- done with making small talk with you for four hours.
At this stage of my life (earliest of early 40s, new dad, East Van, blah, blah), I would much, much rather watch the game in my own controlled environment: my fortress of solitude, at home, on TV, in HD, while spread out on a spacious and comfortable couch. Twitter is on the laptop, while Jim Hughson calls every play in every way on Hockey Night In Canada. I can drink my own craft beer from a nice full, cold bottle. I can pee alone, and at my leisure. I can eat healthy, inexpensive food that includes actual vegetables. And no one from Port Moody can touch me.
As a lifelong Canucks fan, this is just how I feel. Don't get defensive about this. Leave that to Dan Hamhuis. And… GO CANUCKS GO!