Geroy Simon to return to the Lions!

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WestCoastJoe
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The franchise had to have him back. The circumstances of his departure were not pleasant for some fans.

Now he is back, as he should be.

I always found Geroy very gracious with the fans. I expect he will be very good as a representative of the Lions in the community.

As a personnel man, who knows? In that respect, I would say he is an unknown commodity. Not every Hall of Fame player is necessarily a great judge of talent, nor a great coach. Kelly Bates certainly seemed to hit a number of home runs as a personnel guy. Missing him is a concern, as the draft approaches.

In any case, Geroy is back where he belongs, with the Lions, after some difficulty in the relationship.
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Big Time
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Agree with WCJ. Simon is a BC Lion. Period. Every relationship has it's up and downs but Geroy on any other team just doesn't make sense. Time to move forward.
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Rammer
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WestCoastJoe wrote:The franchise had to have him back. The circumstances of his departure were not pleasant for some fans.

Now he is back, as he should be.

I always found Geroy very gracious with the fans. I expect he will be very good as a representative of the Lions in the community.

As a personnel man, who knows? In that respect, I would say he is an unknown commodity. Not every Hall of Fame player is necessarily a great judge of talent, nor a great coach. Kelly Bates certainly seemed to hit a number of home runs as a personnel guy. Missing him is a concern, as the draft approaches.

In any case, Geroy is back where he belongs, with the Lions, after some difficulty in the relationship.
Bomber originally, a Rider to end his career, IMO there are better former Lions to honour in this capacity. Afterall, Geroy was a large supporter of JC and CP, that is talent that he was backing. So his known backings aren't exactly the top of the food chain. Then you put in his words of wisdom towards the Lions while in green and white, and this is a hard pill to swallow. Remember Geroy subbing in for an afternoon host on TEAM1040, he was completely unprepared, expect similar from him when it comes to drafting. His one true passion is about playing the game, he trained silly for that, but anything else doesn't feature him will be difficult for him to find self motivation. He was on top of the world as far as the CFL players go, it is hard to slide down that hill and keep your pride.

Now Bates release is a huge mistake, and it is going to cost the Lions in the future. We know that as LIon fans, just compare last years drafting for the Lions vs the Riders, we are taking a step backwards IMO.
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MexicoLionFan
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Welcome back Geroy...love you!
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sj-roc
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Rammer wrote:
DanoT wrote:Welcome back Geroy.

I fully support the way Geroy handled the end of his playing career. By going to the Riders he got an extra $40k to $80k per year for 2 years I would guess. (plus playoff and GC $ and 2 TDs in the GC. Nice)

Geroy is a pro, not a fan and as such once he was a Rider, as a pro I would expect him to be all in for his new team and he was.
Interesting discussion you bring up, without Geroy would the Riders have beaten the Lions in the semi-final? If the Lions had Geroy they may have well been the GC champions for that season, as the only game that was in doubt in that GC run was the WDSF between the Riders and Lions. However he would have been short some coin, but he would have also likely been more involved with the Lions as he was a non factor for the regular season with the Riders.
The way I recall it in 2012, we were able to win a few games without him and we also lost a few with him, including the WF (13-6 on the year including that one). In fact he played in all six of our losses that year, including one against Ssk on Sep 29. OTOH we swept the five 2012 games he missed. There's also the matter of our 2007 and 2010 playoff exits vs Ssk for which he dressed for us. So the question doesn't really have a clear cut answer.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Toppy Vann
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DanoT wrote:Welcome back Geroy.

I fully support the way Geroy handled the end of his playing career. By going to the Riders he got an extra $40k to $80k per year for 2 years I would guess. (plus playoff and GC $ and 2 TDs in the GC. Nice)

Geroy is a pro, not a fan and as such once he was a Rider, as a pro I would expect him to be all in for his new team and he was.
Exactly spot on.

It's a business and for some players it becomes quite a cruel business when a team no longer wants your services.

If he wanted to see if he had it in him to go and play elsewhere and he was successful - good for him.

He's a bright guy and I could see (unless it went to a successful Tedford) that Simon could if he does somethings and learns become a future GM. He's intelligent but an unknown in talent selection and recruitment - something he might be able to pick up on here unless it's more of a community relations role and there is no path from there to football operations or personnel work.
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Talent doesn't always translate well to management or coaching. In fact, sometimes it seems more the opposite. Some gifts are more intuitive and don't translate well to instruction or mentoring. It's kind of like a fighter pilot thing. It is a subtle combination of training, instinct, reflexes and intelligence. Some do very well largely on natural gifts but those are qualities that can't be taught. It often seems that some of the best coaches were only so-so as players. Ones that either failed or struggled to stay in line ups. They generally aren't the gifted superstar types.
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sj-roc
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Talent doesn't always translate well to management or coaching. In fact, sometimes it seems more the opposite. Some gifts are more intuitive and don't translate well to instruction or mentoring. It's kind of like a fighter pilot thing. It is a subtle combination of training, instinct, reflexes and intelligence. Some do very well largely on natural gifts but those are qualities that can't be taught. It often seems that some of the best coaches were only so-so as players. Ones that either failed or struggled to stay in line ups. They generally aren't the gifted superstar types.
It might be the so-called "Curse of Knowledge" phenomenon at play here. When you know, and know deeply, how to handle something that it's almost second nature, it can be difficult to look at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't — which makes it more difficult to convey that knowledge to such an audience. The gifted superstar types have never seen the game from this perspective, but it's generally going to be the dominant one in his lineup. This is what could give role-player types the upper hand in succeeding in management or coaching positions.

It's like if you took a Nobel Prize winning science professor out of his familiar post-secondary lecture hall environment and put him in front of a class of 6 year olds to teach them arithmetic. Of course he knows the material inside out, but it wouldn't be a lock for him to succeed in this role.

Carl Wieman, the Nobel Laureate who worked briefly at UBC (2007-2010), expressed it well in the context of teaching introductory university physics:

http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews ... ckpage.cfm
We must abandon the implicit assumption that all brains are the same and so passing along what is clear to us will be clear to the novice student, and if it fails, it is an indication that the students are simply incapable. We must instead come to recognize that mastery of a subject is much more a process of restructuring the brain than simply of transferring knowledge, and knowing a subject is profoundly different from knowing how that subject is best learned. The result will be greatly improved learning... . Knowledge becomes a curse only if one fails to recognize its limitations.
"...knowing a subject is profoundly different from knowing how that subject is best learned."
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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sj-roc
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GS was on 1040 with Scott Rintoul last night. Listen to the 14-min interview here:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... t-1.206644#
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Toppy Vann
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I know what folks are saying here is true.

The best athletes are not necessarily the best coaches either. Nor are the best coaches the best GMs.

But I base my take on Geroy's potential based on some interviews heard a few years back where he seems to be understanding well of the business side of football which is not always HC to GM.

I don't know the guy but I suspect the Lions see a value of having this popular guy back and not just to do community relations work.

This job is a bit vague and diverse and two things are key to making this work:
1. how much the organization really wants his contribution. I suspect Wally wants it.
2. how clear the duties and mix will align with his passions and skills. It sounds promising from his interview. I suspect Skulsky's side would not hesitate to trot him out to business groups.

The risk and downside is these are two very distinct roles and can you do both without being too stretched. As he says "he has to find his role" .

1. Scouting and personnel - here is a chance to learn from Wally, even Neil McEvoy who has a lot of experience I guess and of course the HC.
I like how Geroy learned to find out what kind of person the athlete is by also talking to the trainers.

2. Business development - alumni, community, partnerships - a good mix for learning. In this he might be working more with Skulsky's side of the business and that can be great as in the old glory days of the Lions they'd trot out the stars to mix with the business leaders and talk football.

He says he "has a passion for the business side."

Wally joked that Geroy wants his job says Scott Rintoul. He's driven and ambitious. All good stuff.

Coaching - like free time so he's put coaching aside. I honestly think these coaches with more balance in their lives could be more effective than those assistant stories of guys sleeping in their offices. With the technology and extra folks around - it seems they should be changing.

I suspect Dave Dickinson will not sleep in the office and keep his perspective on life and family.

Geroy has a lot of confidence. Not afraid to tell it like he sees it.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Rammer
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Toppy Vann wrote:I know what folks are saying here is true.

The best athletes are not necessarily the best coaches either. Nor are the best coaches the best GMs.

But I base my take on Geroy's potential based on some interviews heard a few years back where he seems to be understanding well of the business side of football which is not always HC to GM.

I don't know the guy but I suspect the Lions see a value of having this popular guy back and not just to do community relations work.

This job is a bit vague and diverse and two things are key to making this work:
1. how much the organization really wants his contribution. I suspect Wally wants it.
2. how clear the duties and mix will align with his passions and skills. It sounds promising from his interview. I suspect Skulsky's side would not hesitate to trot him out to business groups.

The risk and downside is these are two very distinct roles and can you do both without being too stretched. As he says "he has to find his role" .

1. Scouting and personnel - here is a chance to learn from Wally, even Neil McEvoy who has a lot of experience I guess and of course the HC.
I like how Geroy learned to find out what kind of person the athlete is by also talking to the trainers.

2. Business development - alumni, community, partnerships - a good mix for learning. In this he might be working more with Skulsky's side of the business and that can be great as in the old glory days of the Lions they'd trot out the stars to mix with the business leaders and talk football.

He says he "has a passion for the business side."

Wally joked that Geroy wants his job says Scott Rintoul. He's driven and ambitious. All good stuff.

Coaching - like free time so he's put coaching aside. I honestly think these coaches with more balance in their lives could be more effective than those assistant stories of guys sleeping in their offices. With the technology and extra folks around - it seems they should be changing.

I suspect Dave Dickinson will not sleep in the office and keep his perspective on life and family.

Geroy has a lot of confidence. Not afraid to tell it like he sees it.
That is a good point on Geroy, he will speak his mind as he has attained rock status and has more backing than most would in his position. Still recall how ill prepared he was to co-host the radio show, but as long as he is passionate about his post playing days, it bodes an opportunity.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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