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Big Time
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No question the biggest mistake the Lions ever made was not re-signing him. They were packing BC Place including several regular season crowds of 50,000+. BC Lions games became an EVENT in Vancouver during that time. That the Lions tried to hard ball him was a move so out of touch, it still boggles the mind. He went on to be one of the best CFL players ever. They would have packed the house for years if Flutie had remained. The only player since that time that has almost captured that kind of magic was Casey Printers, but he's now more known for his shortcomings.
dupsdell1
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Big Time wrote:No question the biggest mistake the Lions ever made was not re-signing him. They were packing BC Place including several regular season crowds of 50,000+. BC Lions games became an EVENT in Vancouver during that time. That the Lions tried to hard ball him was a move so out of touch, it still boggles the mind. He went on to be one of the best CFL players ever. They would have packed the house for years if Flutie had remained. The only player since that time that has almost captured that kind of magic was Casey Printers, but he's now more known for his shortcomings.


Yes in 1991 I thought this was the second coming of the mid 80's again getting 40- 50 k a game , but I agree I would have been if they paid him what he wanted .

Casey Printers to me had one good year, Lulay could have been that star type QB if he had not got hurt at all.

I believe the lions will get there again but I think there is going to have to be new Ownership, a new President, coach and staff.
jmc24
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JohnHenry wrote:
jmc24 wrote:
dupsdell1 wrote:Doug Flutie is the most exciting player I have ever seen in the CFL I have been watching this since 1974 Yes warren Moon was excellent , Ron Lancaster, Casey Printers in 2004, But nobody controlled his own position like he did . The Most exciting QB to ever put on a lions uniform.
Flutie , Lancaster , Moon .......PRINTERS? :puke:
I realize you're a rookie, jmc, but Printers posted a QB rating in 2004 which Moon, Flutie or Lancaster could only dream of.

As the 3rd-string QB for the first 3 games in 2004, Printers was suddenly thrust into action, going 325 of 494 passing (66%) for 5,088 yds and 35 td's with only 10 int's for the season. Casey also rushed for 494 yds and another 9 td's. He won the league's Most Outstanding Player award and his 115 QB rating hasn't been matched since.

Printers ignited the entire province into Caseymania, drawing huge crowds to BC Place and tremendous buzz for the Lions, the likes of which the team hasn't enjoyed since...even with Printers unfortunate redux with the Lions a few years later. :cheer:
Thanks for the history lesson John Henry. Let's wait and see if 1 season gets him into the hall next to those 3..
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Big Time
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JohnHenry wrote: I realize you're a rookie, jmc, but Printers posted a QB rating in 2004 which Moon, Flutie or Lancaster could only dream of.

As the 3rd-string QB for the first 3 games in 2004, Printers was suddenly thrust into action, going 325 of 494 passing (66%) for 5,088 yds and 35 td's with only 10 int's for the season. Casey also rushed for 494 yds and another 9 td's. He won the league's Most Outstanding Player award and his 115 QB rating hasn't been matched since.

Printers ignited the entire province into Caseymania, drawing huge crowds to BC Place and tremendous buzz for the Lions, the likes of which the team hasn't enjoyed since...even with Printers unfortunate redux with the Lions a few years later. :cheer:
And yet he didn't play a meaningful down in the 2004 Grey Cup game. :bang: Still sad... :bawl:
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Lions4ever
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TheLionKing wrote:
DanoT wrote:If the CFL was smart they would rename the MOP award The Jackie Parker MOP Award.
X2
Agreed. I've been suggesting this for years. The CFL (and its teams) sometimes seem to lack that gene a little bit as far as trumpeting its own legacy. I've also said for years that the field at BC Place should be officially renamed "Bobby Ackles Field at BC Place" on those occasions when it's being used by the Lions.
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MexicoLionFan
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Doug Flutie was the greatest player in CFL history, hands down, and that's no slap to Jackie Parker, Pinball Clemmons or Warren Moon, they were all incredible special football players, but Flutie had a blue collar workman-like mentality to go along with his breathtaking talent and intelligence...the combination was lethal.

The Lions should NEVER has let Flutie get away...however, at the time we had an owner that could only see what was in front of him "right now", he had no perspective at all...with a player like Doug (and having Darren here too) the proper approach would have been sitting down with Doug, Darren and the entire family and saying "how do we make this work over the next 10 years???" Hindsight is a pretty a nice advantage to have, but it was apparent at the time...the Lions had built on Joe Kapp's infusion of youthful energy and fun football. There was a buzz around town all season with Doug, and by the end of the year, had the Lions won that game vs. CGY, there would have been a 100,000 fans in Vancouver alone that would have walked to watch the Grey Cup game with our Lions in it.

The atmosphere was SPECIAL because with Doug you KNEW, no matter how weak our Defence was, we ALWAYS had a chance to win...that a big play was coming at any second...its long over now, but what a chance for this franchise and this province to have had Doug and Darren setting records here for a long time together...Jon Volpe, Matt Clarke, Trevethan, we were young, aggressive and FUN at every turn!

I think naming the MOP award the Jackie Parker Award is LONG overdue...that's a way of always ensuring that the game never forgets its important beginnings...

What memories...

As to what John Henry said about Printers, he is right, Casey's QB season in 2004 has never been, and may never be, matched in CFL history. That was a season for the ages, and it could have been A LOT more had Printers not developed turf toe (and if you haven't had it, its excruciating pain to play with, even if they inject the toe)...Printers might have had a chance (believe it or not) for 6,000 yards passing had he stayed healthy...Wally's decision to play DD in the GC game, and then stick with DD even when it was clear that his rust wasn't coming off was one of Wally's worst moves ever...you had to hand the ball to Printers after the season he had...there was no guarantee that his toe would have held up, he had struggled at year end playing on that toe, teams had adjusted to Printers by blitzing on every down, they were spying on him and coming at him with wide angles, but he still needed to have started that game! That was a season for the ages, and Argos were a team very capable of beating that day!
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Big Time
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Agreed completely MLF. I've written in the past about how the 2004 GC was the worst coaching performance of Wally's career, bar none. I found it interesting that at the Grey Cup this year they had a live panel which consisted of Geroy Simon and Brent Johnson. Johnson was quite candid in saying that in 2004 they were the better team but lost to a team to which they never should have lost. Johnson is right, and I'm convinced had Casey come in in the third quarter when DD was struggling, the outcome would have been different.
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Rammer
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Pezim brought in Flutie and his time with the Lions was incredible in itself. However, I think that one thing that you are forgetting is Pezim also thought he held the high hand as Flutie was designated 'markee' player for the Lions. When the other stock market crook offered more dollars, Flutie broke a kind of CFL gentlemen's agreement to not pursue a teams markee player.

Of course the Lions received Danny Barrett in a trade that was to compensate the Lions with a QB, however that trade included the Lions sending over an OL to the Stamps, that OL ended up starring in front of Flutie and an allstar for many years, his name...Rocco Ramano and the rights to Jamie Crysdage were thrown in. Barrett went on to have one incredible game for the Lions passing for 601 yards, that trade made the Stamps for half a decade and Wally's career as a HC took a solid hold. Funny thing in retrospect, the Stamps were probably not going to hold onto Barrett and reaped the rewards by trading him to BC, where BC may have been able to sign him when he was released by the Stamps. You can see that thinking by Wally as his career went along, never offer up too much in a trade for a player that doesn't fit with his current team.

As for Flutie, he was hands down the best that has ever been in the CFL, just look at his ability to take 3 different teams and lead them on offense. Plus I like that he is very respectful of the CFL. Now, I would take him and Darren on as HC and OC without any background in either department. Plus that would sell tickets to the fans.
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Rammer
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MexicoLionFan wrote:Doug Flutie was the greatest player in CFL history, hands down, and that's no slap to Jackie Parker, Pinball Clemmons or Warren Moon, they were all incredible special football players, but Flutie had a blue collar workman-like mentality to go along with his breathtaking talent and intelligence...the combination was lethal.

The Lions should NEVER has let Flutie get away...however, at the time we had an owner that could only see what was in front of him "right now", he had no perspective at all...with a player like Doug (and having Darren here too) the proper approach would have been sitting down with Doug, Darren and the entire family and saying "how do we make this work over the next 10 years???" Hindsight is a pretty a nice advantage to have, but it was apparent at the time...the Lions had built on Joe Kapp's infusion of youthful energy and fun football. There was a buzz around town all season with Doug, and by the end of the year, had the Lions won that game vs. CGY, there would have been a 100,000 fans in Vancouver alone that would have walked to watch the Grey Cup game with our Lions in it.

The atmosphere was SPECIAL because with Doug you KNEW, no matter how weak our Defence was, we ALWAYS had a chance to win...that a big play was coming at any second...its long over now, but what a chance for this franchise and this province to have had Doug and Darren setting records here for a long time together...Jon Volpe, Matt Clarke, Trevethan, we were young, aggressive and FUN at every turn!

I think naming the MOP award the Jackie Parker Award is LONG overdue...that's a way of always ensuring that the game never forgets its important beginnings...

What memories...

As to what John Henry said about Printers, he is right, Casey's QB season in 2004 has never been, and may never be, matched in CFL history. That was a season for the ages, and it could have been A LOT more had Printers not developed turf toe (and if you haven't had it, its excruciating pain to play with, even if they inject the toe)...Printers might have had a chance (believe it or not) for 6,000 yards passing had he stayed healthy...Wally's decision to play DD in the GC game, and then stick with DD even when it was clear that his rust wasn't coming off was one of Wally's worst moves ever...you had to hand the ball to Printers after the season he had...there was no guarantee that his toe would have held up, he had struggled at year end playing on that toe, teams had adjusted to Printers by blitzing on every down, they were spying on him and coming at him with wide angles, but he still needed to have started that game! That was a season for the ages, and Argos were a team very capable of beating that day!
I am a huge fan of Printers, he had the 'it' factor in 2004. But I disagree on him not getting the start in GC, as his injury held him back. DD got the reps and deserved the start at the time. It would be interesting to ask DD on what his thoughts were at the time, and have Wally at the same table with CP in a discussion group, but all we can do as a fan is take Wally's word for what it is worth and CP's injury kept him out.
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MexicoLionFan
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I disagree Rammer on Printers...he didn't take reps because the turf toe needed to rest..he didn't need 1st team reps in preparation to the GC game, just ask Casey, and ANY member of our 2004 offence. DD's first team reps meant nothing because he didn't have the game experiences that Casey did in 2004 and it showed from the first Lion's series...the Lions would have injected Printers toe for the game and it would have allowed him to drop back, plant and throw...rolling out, not so much...but Printers deserved the chance to start...

As to Pezim, he saw Flutie as a device to create interest and thus value for the team so that he could resell it...if he had any long term plans for the Lions he would kept Flutie at all costs...Pezim was an ambassador for himself and not the franchise which he saw as virtually worthless and likely bankrupt. Pez had a great eye promotion, to generate interest in the moment so that he could make a killing off of lies and false hopes...that's what the VSE was and he treated the Lions NO differently!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

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Rammer
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MexicoLionFan wrote:I disagree Rammer on Printers...he didn't take reps because the turf toe needed to rest..he didn't need 1st team reps in preparation to the GC game, just ask Casey, and ANY member of our 2004 offence. DD's first team reps meant nothing because he didn't have the game experiences that Casey did in 2004 and it showed from the first Lion's series...the Lions would have injected Printers toe for the game and it would have allowed him to drop back, plant and throw...rolling out, not so much...but Printers deserved the chance to start...

As to Pezim, he saw Flutie as a device to create interest and thus value for the team so that he could resell it...if he had any long term plans for the Lions he would kept Flutie at all costs...Pezim was an ambassador for himself and not the franchise which he saw as virtually worthless and likely bankrupt. Pez had a great eye promotion, to generate interest in the moment so that he could make a killing off of lies and false hopes...that's what the VSE was and he treated the Lions NO differently!
I am not sure that CP was ready, but it is always going to be a debate when anyone discusses Printer's career. :beer:

Now, if you want to delve further into the CP Lion happenings...in his second go around with BC in the WDF against Edmonton, he threw a last drive bomb into the endzone headed for Geroy, when Signor Mobley gave Geroy a bump and Geroy couldn't get the ball. In today's CFL, that play would have been challenged. So my question is would it have been overturned by the CFL office, or left alone as incidental contact?
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MexicoLionFan
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That's one heck of a thought to remember...but I think it definitely would have been overturned...that was INT and in a play to decide the game TOR would have to change the call on the field or suffer the severe followup IMO...

And yeah, over Printers, I have no idea how Casey would have played in the GC...he simply wasn't the same player after the turf toe...I'm just saying that his incredible season warranted the start...and who knows, a smart QB like DD might have benefited from seeing what Stubler was doing from the sideline and it might have made him better coming in for relief if necessary...as you say, who really knows...I just know that we should have won that game, like the '83 GC...those were 2 GC wins we just should of had...Stubler as the game MVP in the 2004 GC IMO.
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

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Big Time
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Hard to say. That game was a true mystery by CFL standards, and the league has had a few of those.

For example, the Esks managed the astonishing feat of playing the entire game without a penalty. If they had called that interference on the last play, it would have been the first time the flag was thrown against the Esks the whole game. Don't think I had ever seen a team go an entire game without penalty before.

The league allowed the Esks to "trade" Jason Maas to Hamilton for a starting running back (Davis I believe) yet they allowed Edmonton to keep Maas until the off season. So the Esks got a starting RB who played a huge role in the playoffs, and Maas relieved Ricky Ray in both the semi-final and western final to lead the team to victory. Bizarre to say the least.

The last play of the game looked like pretty obvious and blatant pass interference on Geroy. My thinking is that the officials at this point were just scared to decide a game so they decided to let the players decide the game. Still, Lions would have had first and goal from the 1 with no time left on the clock. One chance to host the Grey Cup at home. The drama would have been unbelievable.

The 2005 WF was a bitter experience for me because it felt like the league had decided that come hell or high water, Edmonton was going to represent the West and there wasn't a thing any player could do about it.

Considering the inconsistency of the league in both calling and not-calling pass interference, it truly is a mystery whether they would have called it or not. I'm of the opinion that the challenge for PI has been one of the worst changes the CFL has made in league history. It leads to all sorts of bogus challenges, and the baffling decision making by the "command" centre has left me bewildered as to what constitutes pass interference any more. I hope they get rid of this rule in the off season.
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WestCoastJoe
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MexicoLionFan wrote: What memories...

As to what John Henry said about Printers, he is right, Casey's QB season in 2004 has never been, and may never be, matched in CFL history. That was a season for the ages, and it could have been A LOT more had Printers not developed turf toe (and if you haven't had it, its excruciating pain to play with, even if they inject the toe)...Printers might have had a chance (believe it or not) for 6,000 yards passing had he stayed healthy...Wally's decision to play DD in the GC game, and then stick with DD even when it was clear that his rust wasn't coming off was one of Wally's worst moves ever...you had to hand the ball to Printers after the season he had...there was no guarantee that his toe would have held up, he had struggled at year end playing on that toe, teams had adjusted to Printers by blitzing on every down, they were spying on him and coming at him with wide angles, but he still needed to have started that game! That was a season for the ages, and Argos were a team very capable of beating that day!
Amazing memories for all of us.

Casey Printers in 2004. Pure excitement. Great with the fans. Fantastic year. I knew his stats were good, but they are far beyond my recollection.

Sometime after that year, he was asked what he felt during the ride of 2004. He said something to the effect of fear or terror. Kind of shocking. But he was playing for his life. He did not feel safe, or supported in the organization. It seems that events bore that out. As far as I remember he did not complain publicly.

His meltdown on his return is not really surprising, in retrospect.

I will always be a fan of Casey Printers.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Big Time
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I, too, will always be a Casey Printers fan. He was absolutely electrifying in 2004. Sure he made some mistakes in the way he handled himself afterwards but what young man hasn't? To this day I wish him well.
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