Stamps Officially Announce Succession Plan

[MexicoLionFan]

You have to be kidding me? And MB was ready?

From a bona fides standpoint, yes he was. He was given the chance to coach a position, coordinate Special Teams (which should not be underestimated when it comes to the development of an applicable skillset to a HC), coordinate a Defense and run the draft.

Those are solid bona fides in preparation for a Head Coaching position. The fact that he failed at it doesn't mean that he wasn't groomed and prepared properly for it. A great many people receive the proper education and training for a position at which they subsequently fail. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink correctly.

DD managed his money well and loves Calgyra. While I wouldn't choose Calgyra over Vancouver, that's Dave's call and good for him, I suppose.

I wholeheartedly disagree with these thoughts...MB was brought alone by Wally but could have been beaten out as a positional coach by other candidates at every step. Wally groomed him from one role to another without Benevides EVER FULLY UNDERSTANDING OR EXCELLING AT ANYTHING. Just because you have done something doesn't make you an expert at it. Look at the best coaches in football, in ANY LEAGUE...the ALL have a varied resume. The have coached at almost every level in a variety of systems...that how you learn PERSPECTIVE. Yes, Bill Walsh was right about this, but Nick Saban was right about that...Buddy Ryan certainly understood this, but Ron Rivera had a better idea with that.

Mike Benevides simply does NOT know anything about these philosophies as evidenced by the fact that both of his Coordinators were in over their heads, and he wasn't able to help them. Not only that, he couldn't keep control of his own teammates, and spent ZERO time teaching which is a large part of his mandate. So you can say all you want that Wally brought MB along through every stage and, gee shucks, it just didn't pan out, but that's NOT ACCURATE at all. Mike Benevides, as Jackson Browne sang, was the great Pretender...he pretended to know things but was the master of NOTHING! And our Defensive turnaround which led to a GC in 2011 CAME FROM RICH STUBLER fixing MB's system faults...had Wally not hired Stubler as DLine coach (think again, he was Co-DC) we would not have won the GC in 2011.

MB was sham, perpetrated by Wally on the Lion's franchise so that he could continue being the HC from the sidelines...it was Wally's secret, master plan and it FAILED because MB doesn't understand enough about football and coaching!

[cromartie]

MB was sham, perpetrated by Wally on the Lion's franchise so that he could continue being the HC from the sidelines...it was Wally's secret, master plan and it FAILED because MB doesn't understand enough about football and coaching!

Yeah, let's agree to disagree here. I'll go with Occam's Razor, which says that Wally raised a guy to be head coach on his own, and that guy ended up failing. You can side with the Manchurian Candidate Theory. I suspect we'll never really know the truth.

Either way, it's all over now, and the franchise can move on from it, which is what really matters.

[Hambone]

Good for DD. His roots are firmly established in Calgary now and he is a big part of their success. Lions stood a better chance after Wally stepped down in 2011 but Benny was his guy. Too bad.

Although at that time I think one easily would've questioned if Dickenson was ready for a HC position. He was only 3 years removed from playing with 2 years as a position coach and 1 as a coordinator. He's since added 3 more years as an OC to his resume and is obviously much better prepared to take that next step than he might've been in 2012. We'll never know what the results might've been but we could've been lamenting why Wally went outside the organization to take an inexperienced coach when he had somebody like Benevides sitting inhouse with so much more experience.

You have to be kidding me? And MB was ready? With DD Wally could have stayed on one more season and made DD Asst. HC and we would have had an intelligent man running this operation, instead of the mess we find ourself in...when you think you know more than the game reveals, then you always end up in trouble with the game...Wally has seen himself as "bigger than the game" for a long time, and the game has humbled him. His next decision will be the most important in Lions history because of his reckless choice to "groom" MB as the Lions next coach...the game told him that there were BETTER coaches available and he ignored it!

In my post MLF I was looking in terms of what the lay of the land was back in late 2011. I was deliberately ignoring the easy-to-use revisionist history because it carries no validity in our little debate. Buono certainly would not know how the future would unfold. When he determined it was time to turn the coaching reins over there were obviously options. Internally he had Benevides and Chapdelaine as possible candidates. He may well have given Dickenson some consideration. Certainly he worked with all 3 long enough to know their capabilities very well. Did he talk to some possible candidates outside of the organization including Dickenson before deciding on Benevides? I'm not sure and couldn't unearth anything one way or the other.

Since revisionist history seems to be in vogue when these things happen I looked back to some threads mostly to refresh my memory on what the Lionbacker general consensus was when Buono promoted Benevides. Largely it was widely supported. It's interesting how much your opinion has changed since then when you seemed to believe Benevides was indeed ready.

This was a Nov.28, 2011 post when Lionbackers were just speculating about the possibility Buono might relinquish coaching duties:

2. Continuity Comes From Promoting From Within.

Assistants for Head Coaching vacancies come from winning teams and Grey Cup champions...TO made a run at Benevides 2 years ago, and they, or others, may attempt to do so again. I have always felt that Benevides would make a better Head Coach than a position coach due to his particular skill set. Buono moving upstairs at this point in time, would likely result in the smoothest of changes for this team and still leave more than capable replacements already in place.

Toppy as usual had some prophetic reservations in a December 5, 2011 post.

I don't see Dickinson as a guy who can walk on water quite yet but he does seem to have a calm enough but demanding enough demeanor to be a good HC. I am not sure yet he is the right guy but how can we be when we haven't heard his views on how he'd do the job. Only the GM would get to hear that.

Benevides still is far too jumpy and running around on the side line to make me think he sees the next role in the right way. But after the losing at the start he did a pretty fine job getting the Lions to and winning the GC. Results speak for themselves. Can he rise to the role and change, yes he can. Many of the best execs who got there from management set aside what they did as managers to act in a executive role leading a wider scope team where the person had to more fully rely on the team than doing some of it himself. But you have to know the role requirements and some guys get it - others don't.

And again from MLF a couple posts after Toppy's.

It will be Benevides...and as I have always said, Benevides will make a better Head Coach than a positional coach...He will still have his finger in the Defensive game plan, but will be much more of a rah-rah voice for both the players and the coaches...something I think this team has lacked for a number of years...

I think Benevides will do well as he is likely going to keep things the same, and yet infuse more passion and bravado...

There were several coaching changes back in that same area of time with a few other interesting threads and takes. Some questioned the Riders hiring Chamblin given his relative inexperience while commending Hamilton for hiring Cortez in what many across different fan sites thought was a deserved and long overdue appointment for the long time CFL OC. Chamblin is still Rider HC and Cortez is now working for him although a lot of Rider fans are calling for his head. I don't have a problem with the idea that Benevides should've been let go now. Maybe I'm misreading MLF's comments but they come across as implying that back in December of 2011 the organization was inept for not stepping outside the organization to hire a new HC. It's easy to say that now with purrfect 20/20 hindsight but back then other than Toppy's mild apprehension it doesn't seem like anybody here thought Buono was making a regretable decision.

[South Pender]

In my post MLF I was looking in terms of what the lay of the land was back in late 2011. I was deliberately ignoring the easy-to-use revisionist history because it carries no validity in our little debate. Buono certainly would not know how the future would unfold. When he determined it was time to turn the coaching reins over there were obviously options. Internally he had Benevides and Chapdelaine as possible candidates. He may well have given Dickenson some consideration. Certainly he worked with all 3 long enough to know their capabilities very well. Did he talk to some possible candidates outside of the organization including Dickenson before deciding on Benevides? I'm not sure and couldn't unearth anything one way or the other.

Since revisionist history seems to be in vogue when these things happen I looked back to some threads mostly to refresh my memory on what the Lionbacker general consensus was when Buono promoted Benevides. Largely it was widely supported. It's interesting how much your opinion has changed since then when you seemed to believe Benevides was indeed ready.

This was a Nov.28, 2011 post when Lionbackers were just speculating about the possibility Buono might relinquish coaching duties:

2. Continuity Comes From Promoting From Within.

Assistants for Head Coaching vacancies come from winning teams and Grey Cup champions...TO made a run at Benevides 2 years ago, and they, or others, may attempt to do so again. I have always felt that Benevides would make a better Head Coach than a position coach due to his particular skill set. Buono moving upstairs at this point in time, would likely result in the smoothest of changes for this team and still leave more than capable replacements already in place.

Toppy as usual had some prophetic reservations in a December 5, 2011 post.

I don't see Dickinson as a guy who can walk on water quite yet but he does seem to have a calm enough but demanding enough demeanor to be a good HC. I am not sure yet he is the right guy but how can we be when we haven't heard his views on how he'd do the job. Only the GM would get to hear that.

Benevides still is far too jumpy and running around on the side line to make me think he sees the next role in the right way. But after the losing at the start he did a pretty fine job getting the Lions to and winning the GC. Results speak for themselves. Can he rise to the role and change, yes he can. Many of the best execs who got there from management set aside what they did as managers to act in a executive role leading a wider scope team where the person had to more fully rely on the team than doing some of it himself. But you have to know the role requirements and some guys get it - others don't.

And again from MLF a couple posts after Toppy's.

It will be Benevides...and as I have always said, Benevides will make a better Head Coach than a positional coach...He will still have his finger in the Defensive game plan, but will be much more of a rah-rah voice for both the players and the coaches...something I think this team has lacked for a number of years...

I think Benevides will do well as he is likely going to keep things the same, and yet infuse more passion and bravado...

There were several coaching changes back in that same area of time with a few other interesting threads and takes. Some questioned the Riders hiring Chamblin given his relative inexperience while commending Hamilton for hiring Cortez in what many across different fan sites thought was a deserved and long overdue appointment for the long time CFL OC. Chamblin is still Rider HC and Cortez is now working for him although a lot of Rider fans are calling for his head. I don't have a problem with the idea that Benevides should've been let go now. Maybe I'm misreading MLF's comments but they come across as implying that back in December of 2011 the organization was inept for not stepping outside the organization to hire a new HC. It's easy to say that now with purrfect 20/20 hindsight but back then other than Toppy's mild apprehension it doesn't seem like anybody here thought Buono was making a regretable decision.

Cromartie identified this phenomenon a few days or weeks ago: Hindsight Bias: the inclination, after an event has occurred, to see the event as having been predictable, despite there having been little or no objective basis for predicting it, prior to its occurrence.

It's my recollection too that we all seemed content with the Benevides promotion to HC at the time it was announced.

[MexicoLionFan]

Read the comments again...I have always said that MB would be a better HC than a positional coach because he wasn't a good positional coach! MB does possess skill sets necessary to communicate, the problem was that he didn't have anything to communicate. Promoting from within does create continuity and this is what every franchise wants (see SF 49ers), but you must be a teaching organization with the brightest minds. Clearly we are not, we have had as good or better CDN OLine talent available over the last 10 years than any other CFL team and our OLine is a shambles. I have always argued that Mike Benevides was a master of nothing, and that for MB to be successful he needed great Coordinators...in 2012 he inherited essentially the team that won the GC the previous year, and had JC and Rich Stubler to work with...we lost in the WF to a good CGY team that OUTPREPARED and OUTPLANNED us! When MB lost those two intelligent, veteran Coordinators, there went the X's and O's of the franchise. I simply knew that he was going to be promoted by Wally as HC. Trying to put a positive spin on it, I focused on that fact that MB's best skills as a coach were actually those necessary for a HC...but he was NOT my choice. None of us knew how bad things would turn out because none of us knew how bad MB was as a coach...he had been shielded and helped every step along the way by Wally...now we know!

To go back in time and pull out a fraction of one comment of mine and then spin it out of context speaks for itself. If there is anyone on this board that speaks his mind honestly and openly and is consistent, as Sting said, its probably me. That doesn't make me right or wrong because your reality is completely different from mine. So enjoy yours and don't worry about mine so much! I'm having a pretty good time of it! You and BCFAN both possess good football minds, but you are both "homers"...and there is nothing wrong with that...its just not for me!

As you said, MB is gone, Wally's job is now on the line, so we will sit back and watch how all of this unfolds. I would imagine we both want pretty much the same thing...or would you like to argue that point too?