Bills In Toronto Series Officially Dead

[Lions4ever]

RIP and good riddance:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/

[B.C.FAN]

That's a two-edged sword. While the Toronto series was a flop from many perspectives, the Bills credit it with helping them draw a lot of southern Ontario fans to Ralph Wilson Stadium and they are planning to continue their marketing efforts north of the border, according to Bills president & CEO Russ Brandon.

"I know there’s a lot of noise about moving games up north and I understand that completely. But when we look at what it has done regionally and what it’s done for us back in Ralph Wilson Stadium --- obviously southern Ontario has become a very large market for us as far as fans coming to our games here at Ralph Wilson Stadium. That has been the positive." He added, "We’re going to have a whole marketing and business strategy in southern Ontario up through the (Greater Toronto Area) to build off of what we’ve done over the last five years. That’s a very important market to us. We’ll probably do some more promotional and business activity up there than we’ve done in the past. But we’ve laid some good ground work and that fan base has been very important to us. When you look at Rochester and southern Ontario, 30-35% of our fans each and every Sunday are from those regions.

[TheLionKing]

RIP and good riddance:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/

Pleased to hear that.

[South Pender]

The right move from the Bills' perspective, but, unfortunately, I don't see this as having any effect on support for the Argos in TO. Interesting that 18% of the Bills' ST holders are from Southern Ontario, and one would assume that that percentage probably also holds for game-day attendance. If so, it means that the number of Southern Ontarians attending Bills games is not that much less than attend Argos games, and the Bills haven't been a good team for a long time. The CFL certainly has a fan problem in Toronto.

[WestCoastJoe]

Farewell Bills.

Farewell NFL hopes for Toronto.

I see it as a favourable development for the future of the CFL.

But I guess the NFL-envy in Toronto will not die easy. Can Tanenbaum et al come up with another plan?

Toronto can continue to be the weak sister in the CFL in terms of support. Support from fans. Support from the local media. Support from local government?

[WestCoastJoe]

The Bills did get an initial windfall after Rogers agreed to pay the team $78 million to essentially lease eight games: five in the regular season and three in the preseason. That was almost double what the Bills were projected to generate if those games were played at their home, Ralph Wilson Stadium.

The Bills also experienced a bump in selling tickets to Canadians. Last year, the team estimated that southern Ontario fans accounted for about 18 per cent of its season-ticket sales, surpassing their support from nearby Rochester.

The series, however, never paid off in wins for the Bills or generated a buzz in Toronto.

High ticket prices, initially averaging about $180, a lengthy playoff drought that began in 2000 and the lack of atmosphere in the cavernous domed stadium contributed to the series’ lack of success.

The announced crowd of 38,969 for last year’s game against Atlanta was by far the smallest of the series, and well short of the stadium’s NFL capacity of 46,470, not including suites. Rogers did announce the first four regular-season games had been sellouts before later acknowledging the totals included thousands of free tickets.

The games also attracted a larger than usual contingent of visiting team supporters.

[Sir Purrcival]

Well, as much as this series was a bust, I don't think it is safe to conclude that the NFL will never come to Canada. This series is really not that informative vis a vis that prospect. How many of us would want to pay big $$$ to see a team that wasn't yours? I sure wouldn't. I might take in one game out of curiosity but other than that, not very likely. What's more, Skydump is not really a great football stadium for even the wider CFL field. How much worse would it be for the narrower, shorter NFL field. I don't like the NFL, I don't see it coming anytime soon but there is always someone with more money than brains who are willing to shell out the huge $$$ to make their dream happen. After all, Ted Rogers did and he wasn't a fool of a businessman generally. Once here, who knows how it would fly. It would take an awful lot to make it happen but one can never say never.

[WestCoastJoe]

Well, as much as this series was a bust, I don't think it is safe to conclude that the NFL will never come to Canada. This series is really not that informative vis a vis that prospect. How many of us would want to pay big $$$ to see a team that wasn't yours? I sure wouldn't. I might take in one game out of curiosity but other than that, not very likely. What's more, Skydump is not really a great football stadium for even the wider CFL field. How much worse would it be for the narrower, shorter NFL field. I don't like the NFL, I don't see it coming anytime soon but there is always someone with more money than brains who are willing to shell out the huge $$$ to make their dream happen. After all, Ted Rogers did and he wasn't a fool of a businessman generally. Once here, who knows how it would fly. It would take an awful lot to make it happen but one can never say never.

True.

And yet ...

What is Goodell's true attitude towards the NFL in Canada? His comments are politically careful.

What about Canadian government protection for the CFL?

What if people see the NFL in Canada as destructive to the CFL?

A transfer of a franchise is unlikely, I think. Expansion? No NFL type stadium in Toronto.

Agreed about never say never.

[South Pender]

I don't see the NFL coming to Canada in even the distant future. The most likely NFL expansion now seems to be to London, with most, if not all, owners supporting the idea of a team there. The travel logistics, time-zone differences, etc., must present mind-boggling challenges, but the feeling now is not 'if,' but 'when.' Obviously, a tremendous amount of planning must take place before this idea comes to fruition, but the thinking now is that there'll be a team there by 2020 or so. The NFL has been well-received in the UK, with huge crowds attending at Wembley Stadium, and the NFL has had three games there this season, with another three planned for 2015. The other NFL franchise news is the high probability of a team in Los Angeles before too long--maybe within a year or two. The most likely cities to lose their NFL team to LA include Oakland (again), St. Louis, and San Diego. I think there's little doubt that an NFL presence in Canada would seriously damage the CFL, and, for this reason alone, I just don't see it happening.

[D]

Interesting to also note that a couple weeks ago when Buffalo was hit with a massive snow dump and a home game had to be moved to another venue it was not moved to Toronto but instead it was moved to Detroit

[sj-roc]

The most likely cities to lose their NFL team to LA include Oakland (again), St. Louis, and San Diego. I think there's little doubt that an NFL presence in Canada would seriously damage the CFL, and, for this reason alone, I just don't see it happening.

Interestingly the NFL teams in all three of these cities were all once, if not originally, located in LA. Does the NFL have a stake in the survival of the CFL? I've heard occasionally and anecdotally over the years that the existence of the CFL means the NFL is not subject to anti-trust laws but not sure if this is really the case and if so what the full ramifications of it would be.

[WestCoastJoe]

The most likely cities to lose their NFL team to LA include Oakland (again), St. Louis, and San Diego. I think there's little doubt that an NFL presence in Canada would seriously damage the CFL, and, for this reason alone, I just don't see it happening.

Interestingly the NFL teams in all three of these cities were all once, if not originally, located in LA. Does the NFL have a stake in the survival of the CFL? I've heard occasionally and anecdotally over the years that the existence of the CFL means the NFL is not subject to anti-trust laws but not sure if this is really the case and if so what the full ramifications of it would be.

Re the anti-trust angle, I recall hearing this also. Could look it up, but the issue is not pressing just now.

[TheLionKing]

Just because the Bills aren't coming to Canada doesn't mean Rogers won't continue to try.

[Toppy Vann]

The antitrust issue is that the US laws are both federal and state.

Antitrust laws are to prevent monopoly power however with sports like the NFL they get a bit of an exemption as each franchise are viewed as independent to the degree they are owned by different people who are competing to win and become profitable, etc.

What some proponents of using antitrust laws as a bargaining chip to prevent teams from moving want their gov'ts to do is threaten removal of antitrust if their team decides to pull off a Colts move and move cross country in the middle of the night.

The potential threat is that the Senators and members of Congress from NY going nuts on this issue and start a move to end exemptions from these laws.
It is just a threat. The other school of thinking on antitrust in sports is laissez-faire - just make sure it is running efficiently for consumers.

Here's a scenario that would bring out the big guns to end antitrust in the US for the NFL. Friday night football is HS. Saturday college and Sunday the NFL. Let's say the NFL wants to go to Friday night football and Saturday head to head with the colleges for half of the season and reduce the Sunday games. You would definitely see a very hostile reaction and demand to end antitrust exemptions!!

An economics prof study in the United States concluded that a successful NFL team can increase the per capita income of every person in a city by approximately $100.

Sports in the US are hardly lily white capitalists as teams get counties to fund stadiums. Canada too funds some sports stadiums.

Would Canada step in if the Bills or other team were to move to Ontario? Past actions as far back as PM Pierre Trudeau suggest yes. When the WFL was trying to go to Toronto Trudeau threatened legislation and they went away.

What I've not found if Canada had negotiated any exceptions or reservations to protect the CFL in the Free Trade Agreements to prevent entry or access that would threaten certain of our institutions. Certainly gov'ts protected health care and things like Crown Corporations such as ICBC so that foreign insurers couldn't see for damages by simply being prevented entry.

The CFL stopped negotiating a deal when they announced the Bills coming to Toronto IIRC.

I don't think we will see an end to protectionism as the CFL is a Canadian institution and even non-hard core fans want to retain it.

[WestCoastJoe]

Points well made, Toppy. Without doing some research, they match my recollections of different issues.