Lions' Post Season and on into 2015

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Blitz
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As was suggested to Lionbackers posters regarding the hiring of Benevedes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Responsibility and accountability are also important things. So I looked back at some old posts of mine and this is what I discovered.
Finally, the days have arrived when you can see that an organization is starting to move from being innovative to becoming too set in their ways. Wally likes control and hiring in-house. That has some advantages but over the long haul it also can have some serious disadvantages. Bob Ackles was a much stronger leader after his work in the NFL when he returned. O’Billovich had seen a lot outside of Wally’s organization. Dave Ritchie probably made the biggest impact as a Leos coach and he came from the outside.

When you have coaches like Chapdelaine, Dorazio, Kruck, Benevedes, and Washington, most of their experience comes under one roof and that roof is the Buono way of looking at things. Wally is also getting very set in his ways. Past success does that and Wally is also very conservative at times.

We might have been better off if we had allowed the influence of Hufnagel on Kruck and Dorazio continue into this season, in terms of our offensive direction, than going back to the past with Chapdelaine.

We would have been wise to consider hiring Chris Jones, a very smart defensive coordinator out of Montreal, with the imminent retirement of Ritchie, rather than allowing Calgary to scoop him. We might have been wise to hire someone, not out of the Calgary organization, a fired receivers coach, to come in to coach our special teams but instead looked elsewhere. A successful organization hires both inside and outside, looking for both stability and new ideas. We have the stability down, in terms of Wally always going to people he has worked with in the past, but the innovation part of it, is lacking. We seem to always go back to the past when hiring or stay in-house.

Perhaps even more profound, we might have been wiser to have had Wally become our General Manager and hired John Hufnagel to coach, before Calgary hired him but that would have been Wally’s decision. However, Wally was starting to lose his edge in Calgary before he left. Leos fans always write that Fateri made a huge mistake but perhaps the change to B.C. was what Wally needed to get his spark back.

August 23, 2008
I have finally reached the stage where I believe it would be best for Wally to resign as HC at the conclusion of this season. I have never thought that way before today. While he was not an x and o's knowledgeable coach nor a good game day coach, Wally had his winning record and stature which I believed was a huge plus for our Leos. However, I just see a HC who has not surrounded himself as he did in the past with top drawer assistant coaches, with the exception of hiring Stubler this past year. I don't see a Ritchie or a Hufnagel or a Cortez on our coaching staff at present, although I believe Barrin Miles could become an exceptional defensive coordinator in time.

I really would love to see Dave Ritchie come back here as Head Coach. He has stature. He wants to be a Head Coach again. He's had his time with his grandchildren and is chomping at the bit. I doubt Wally would hire him and would insert a Benevedes or who knows, even a Chapdelaine as Head Coach. However, I really believe we need someone at this juncture with Head Coaching experience.

October 17.2010
Here in B.C. almost all of our coaching staff's first CFL coaching experience has been under Wally. It results in a 'Wally World' type of thinking rather than a rich think tank apprach with a wide range of experiences. It results in a narrow 'group think' approach rather than the innovation that is derived from a richer mix of background coaching experience.

There isn't a Rich Stubler or a Dave Ritchie or a Steve Burratoo on our Leos coaching staff and it shows. We have a bunch of inexperieced assistants led by Chap and Benevedes who haven't know anything other than Wally's World.

July 31, 2011
As GM and VP of Football Operations Wally will still have a tremdous amount of influence on who we put on the field next season and the HC will have a lot less influence on our lineup than Buono did in his dual role of GM and HC.

Mike Benevedes will become our new HC and his job will not be easy to say the least. Expectations will be high and we will be losing some key players, and Wally's shadow will still loom large.

2012 will be an interesting season to say the least!!

December 6,, 2011
I thought Benevedes really setttled down this season and seemed more poised....and he is going to need to be as a HC. Be interesting to see when the announcement is. Saskatchewan was interested in interviewing Benevedes and it will be interesting to see if he goes through the process there first or accepts the position as HC that we are all anticipating is being offered to him. If Benvedes didn't I would expect Chap to be the next in line.

December 7, 2011
The hiring of Rich Stubler as our defensive coordinator is a great move for Benevedes. If Chap also remains as our offensive coordinator it gives Benevedes two experienced coordinators to work with as he begins his first season as a Head Coach.
The key to this move is that Benevedes wil not have to deal with a rookie defensive coodinator but instead will have a savvy veteran coach leading our defence. With Chap maing significant changes to his offensive approach to coaching last season and returning its looking like a good start for 2012 Benevedes right now and certainly looking a lot more positive than a few weeks ago when it looked like we might have two rookie coordinators a few weeks ago.

January 7, 2012
So, in looking back, I believed that we would have been wise back in 2008 to hire Hufnagel as our HC, that in 2010, we needed a HC to succeed Wally who had Head Coaching experience, and in 2012, before the season began, I believed that Benevedes needed two experienced coordinators working under him as a HC and that rookie coordinators were not the answer for him.

But in terms of hindsight, as has been pointed out, I, along with others who have criticized Benevedes hiring as HC, didn't criticize the lack of a hiring process at the time that Benevedes was hired and in fact, I favored the hiring of Benevedes as HC over O`Shea or Dickenson at the time, because of their very limited coaching experience at the end of 2011.

So, in terms of personal accountability, as a poster on this topic, I had some foresight and also a lack of foresight or, from a different set of binoculars, perhaps hindsight has also given me some additional thoughts I didn`t have at that time.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Thanks for doing that research, Blitz. Interesting, historical read. Brings back memories. :thup:

Your well-considered observations have been prescient and fair. Some praise. Some criticism. Some looks at the future. Some looks at the past.
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There are pros and cons to hiring/promoting from within. One of the biggest cons is those that are left behind often becomes bitter, non-motivated.
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Toppy Vann
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TheLionKing wrote:There are pros and cons to hiring/promoting from within. One of the biggest cons is those that are left behind often becomes bitter, non-motivated.
I think you might be referring to how JC might have felt to a point. He left the first time saying his voice was n't heard.

But in those days too it was rumoured he didn't always invite Casey Printers to meetings something that happened to Angus Reid in the off season they decided he'd be a back up to Dean Valli and they didn't invite him to meetings - sending him a message. Seems to be an organizational tool if all true.

I'd not say JC was de-motivated but dissatisfied to some extent might be more apt.

I should check out my posts as I know I was not a fan of MB for HC but did also note how he started off just fine in his public statements - not so much as time went on and really off course for a HC this year. Nothing quite as bad as Kavis Reed but he and Benny had similar bosses. GMs all palsy walsy and who gave their guy two more years (although in Wally's case his firing at Benny's request came a month before he owed the two years) whereas Kavis I believe collected all his. Neither GM gave what they really needed - some stern guidance and guidelines as to how to conduct themselves.
In Ed Hervey's case he didn't have the competence and spent most of his time in anger raging on about ET.
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Blitz
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Toppy Vann wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:There are pros and cons to hiring/promoting from within. One of the biggest cons is those that are left behind often becomes bitter, non-motivated.
I think you might be referring to how JC might have felt to a point. He left the first time saying his voice was n't heard.

But in those days too it was rumoured he didn't always invite Casey Printers to meetings something that happened to Angus Reid in the off season they decided he'd be a back up to Dean Valli and they didn't invite him to meetings - sending him a message. Seems to be an organizational tool if all true.

I'd not say JC was de-motivated but dissatisfied to some extent might be more apt.

I should check out my posts as I know I was not a fan of MB for HC but did also note how he started off just fine in his public statements - not so much as time went on and really off course for a HC this year. Nothing quite as bad as Kavis Reed but he and Benny had similar bosses. GMs all palsy walsy and who gave their guy two more years (although in Wally's case his firing at Benny's request came a month before he owed the two years) whereas Kavis I believe collected all his. Neither GM gave what they really needed - some stern guidance and guidelines as to how to conduct themselves.
In Ed Hervey's case he didn't have the competence and spent most of his time in anger raging on about ET.
It was Buono who decided that Reid would be a backup to Valli and then reversed his decision later. Toppy, I agree that Benevedes was at his best in his first season. I also think that his worst was this season, with two inexperienced coordinators. He would never have berated Stubler or Chap on the sidelines.

Here is an article by Ed Willes regarding next season.

Willes' Musings: Lions Hopes Pinned Mainly on Buono

By Ed Willes, The Province December 8, 2014

This off-season is like the playoffs for B.C. Lions general manager Wally Buono, who needs to rebuild the team.

With the Christmas season now upon us, here’s something that’s both holly and jolly, the Monday morning musings and meditations on the world of sports.

On the surface, the job of resurrecting the B.C. Lions doesn’t seem that onerous.

The Lions have a strong defence built around linebackers Solomon Elimimian and Adam Bighill. On offence they have weapons at the skill positions. If Travis Lulay gives them competent quarterbacking next season, there’s no reason to think they won’t return to the 12-win level that has become their standard.

But it’s not that easy. For the first time since Buono took over the football operation in 2003, there are fissures within the organization.

They’ve already fired head coach Mike Benevides and there are questions about the future of offensive co-ordinator Khari Jones. Since winning the Grey Cup in 2011, the Lions have also lost Geroy Simon, Brent Johnson, Korey Banks, Angus Reid and, now, Dante Marsh, who were great players but, more importantly, they were great leaders, and that’s left a huge void in the locker-room.

Wally Buono, who’s demonstrated a remarkable ability to find quarterbacks and leaders throughout his career, now has to rebuild the quarterback position and the team’s culture. A healthy Lulay would go a long way in fixing both areas but, given his health, it’s impossible to know what to expect from the former MOP.

No, this is mostly on Buono. He has to find the right coach, find a Plan B at quarterback — hello Jordan Rodgers — and rebuild the team’s leadership hierarchy while replenishing the Lions’ stockpile of Canadian talent.

Some of the pieces for Project Reset are already in place but the Lions desperately need Buono to perform like a Hall of Famer this off-season
I couldn't agree more. The best Christmas present or New Year's present Wally can give Leos fans is a very good future HC, replenishing our Canadian talent, finding quarterback talent for the future, and fixing the team's culture and leadership.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Blitz wrote:As was suggested to Lionbackers posters regarding the hiring of Benevedes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Responsibility and accountability are also important things. So I looked back at some old posts of mine and this is what I discovered.
Finally, the days have arrived when you can see that an organization is starting to move from being innovative to becoming too set in their ways. Wally likes control and hiring in-house. That has some advantages but over the long haul it also can have some serious disadvantages. Bob Ackles was a much stronger leader after his work in the NFL when he returned. O’Billovich had seen a lot outside of Wally’s organization. Dave Ritchie probably made the biggest impact as a Leos coach and he came from the outside.

When you have coaches like Chapdelaine, Dorazio, Kruck, Benevedes, and Washington, most of their experience comes under one roof and that roof is the Buono way of looking at things. Wally is also getting very set in his ways. Past success does that and Wally is also very conservative at times.

We might have been better off if we had allowed the influence of Hufnagel on Kruck and Dorazio continue into this season, in terms of our offensive direction, than going back to the past with Chapdelaine.

We would have been wise to consider hiring Chris Jones, a very smart defensive coordinator out of Montreal, with the imminent retirement of Ritchie, rather than allowing Calgary to scoop him. We might have been wise to hire someone, not out of the Calgary organization, a fired receivers coach, to come in to coach our special teams but instead looked elsewhere. A successful organization hires both inside and outside, looking for both stability and new ideas. We have the stability down, in terms of Wally always going to people he has worked with in the past, but the innovation part of it, is lacking. We seem to always go back to the past when hiring or stay in-house.

Perhaps even more profound, we might have been wiser to have had Wally become our General Manager and hired John Hufnagel to coach, before Calgary hired him but that would have been Wally’s decision. However, Wally was starting to lose his edge in Calgary before he left. Leos fans always write that Fateri made a huge mistake but perhaps the change to B.C. was what Wally needed to get his spark back.

August 23, 2008
I have finally reached the stage where I believe it would be best for Wally to resign as HC at the conclusion of this season. I have never thought that way before today. While he was not an x and o's knowledgeable coach nor a good game day coach, Wally had his winning record and stature which I believed was a huge plus for our Leos. However, I just see a HC who has not surrounded himself as he did in the past with top drawer assistant coaches, with the exception of hiring Stubler this past year. I don't see a Ritchie or a Hufnagel or a Cortez on our coaching staff at present, although I believe Barrin Miles could become an exceptional defensive coordinator in time.

I really would love to see Dave Ritchie come back here as Head Coach. He has stature. He wants to be a Head Coach again. He's had his time with his grandchildren and is chomping at the bit. I doubt Wally would hire him and would insert a Benevedes or who knows, even a Chapdelaine as Head Coach. However, I really believe we need someone at this juncture with Head Coaching experience.

October 17.2010
Here in B.C. almost all of our coaching staff's first CFL coaching experience has been under Wally. It results in a 'Wally World' type of thinking rather than a rich think tank apprach with a wide range of experiences. It results in a narrow 'group think' approach rather than the innovation that is derived from a richer mix of background coaching experience.

There isn't a Rich Stubler or a Dave Ritchie or a Steve Burratoo on our Leos coaching staff and it shows. We have a bunch of inexperieced assistants led by Chap and Benevedes who haven't know anything other than Wally's World.

July 31, 2011
As GM and VP of Football Operations Wally will still have a tremdous amount of influence on who we put on the field next season and the HC will have a lot less influence on our lineup than Buono did in his dual role of GM and HC.

Mike Benevedes will become our new HC and his job will not be easy to say the least. Expectations will be high and we will be losing some key players, and Wally's shadow will still loom large.

2012 will be an interesting season to say the least!!

December 6,, 2011
I thought Benevedes really setttled down this season and seemed more poised....and he is going to need to be as a HC. Be interesting to see when the announcement is. Saskatchewan was interested in interviewing Benevedes and it will be interesting to see if he goes through the process there first or accepts the position as HC that we are all anticipating is being offered to him. If Benvedes didn't I would expect Chap to be the next in line.

December 7, 2011
The hiring of Rich Stubler as our defensive coordinator is a great move for Benevedes. If Chap also remains as our offensive coordinator it gives Benevedes two experienced coordinators to work with as he begins his first season as a Head Coach.
The key to this move is that Benevedes wil not have to deal with a rookie defensive coodinator but instead will have a savvy veteran coach leading our defence. With Chap maing significant changes to his offensive approach to coaching last season and returning its looking like a good start for 2012 Benevedes right now and certainly looking a lot more positive than a few weeks ago when it looked like we might have two rookie coordinators a few weeks ago.

January 7, 2012
So, in looking back, I believed that we would have been wise back in 2008 to hire Hufnagel as our HC, that in 2010, we needed a HC to succeed Wally who had Head Coaching experience, and in 2012, before the season began, I believed that Benevedes needed two experienced coordinators working under him as a HC and that rookie coordinators were not the answer for him.

But in terms of hindsight, as has been pointed out, I, along with others who have criticized Benevedes hiring as HC, didn't criticize the lack of a hiring process at the time that Benevedes was hired and in fact, I favored the hiring of Benevedes as HC over O`Shea or Dickenson at the time, because of their very limited coaching experience at the end of 2011.

So, in terms of personal accountability, as a poster on this topic, I had some foresight and also a lack of foresight or, from a different set of binoculars, perhaps hindsight has also given me some additional thoughts I didn`t have at that time.
Really interesting set of insights over time, Blitz. Your experience in playing the game at a very high level, along with your guest-coaching stints, make these insights particularly well-informed and truly unique on this forum. Of real interest to me is the considerable interest that Bene attracted from other CFL teams in their searches for a HC. He indeed did look good at one point--not only here but also in Toronto and Saskatchewan. Also true is your point about Bene being well-served by two very-experienced coordinators in Chaps and Stubler. Had these guys been around this past season, I suspect the Lions would have fared better. It's not that the HC has to be an "x's and o's" guy, but, if he's not, he'd better have a couple of good coordinators who are. In fact, in my opinion, having two coordinators who are really good at the micro details along with a HC who impacts the larger picture with leadership, organization of the structure and chain of command, accountability, and a vision for the team might be the best org chart of all. The "x's and o's" guys might be more effective if not being micro-managed by an "x's and o's" HC.
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Also true is your point about Bene being well-served by two very-experienced coordinators in Chaps and Stubler. Had these guys been around this past season, I suspect the Lions would have fared better. It's not that the HC has to be an "x's and o's" guy, but, if he's not, he'd better have a couple of good coordinators who are. In fact, in my opinion, having two coordinators who are really good at the micro details along with a HC who impacts the larger picture with leadership, organization of the structure and chain of command, accountability, and a vision for the team might be the best org chart of all. The "x's and o's" guys might be more effective if not being micro-managed by an "x's and o's" HC.
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I certainly was very worried about Benevedes going with two inexperienced coordinators this year but not just from an x and o's standpoint. I felt that Stubler and Chap were experienced coaches who wouldn't accept any nonsense...that Benevedes would have his stuggles in that area, with two inexperienced coordinators who wouldn't have the same kind of presence.

You bring up an interesting point in terms of what role the HC should play and it also causes me to reflect on Buono's role as a HC. No question that Wally wanted Chap to run Hufnagel's Calgary offence as he wanted Chap's predecessor George Cortez to do also. But outside of that direction Wally mostly let Chap run the x and o's of the offence, outside of the short yardage offence, which Wally coached (and coached badly)

What I don't think a lot of Leos fans realize or realized in the past is that Dorazio is the coach in charge or the running game and has been for a long time. Chap called the running plays but he wasn't in charge of designing them.

On defense Wally's direction has been to run a lot of base defense with a four man rush and a lot of vanilla zone. However, he let Ritchie run his own defensive scheme when Ritchie was here, although there were times that he jumped in, to the defensive players chagrin at times, until Barrin Miles asked him to leave Ritchie's defense alone. Wally did insist on Ritchie using Javy Glatt in the middle because he loved Javy, even when Jamal Johnson, when he was in the lineup, would run past Javy to make a tackle.

For the most part, Wally was not an x and o's strategist but mostly a manager of his coordiantors and assistants and the boss of his players. In terms of personell decisions, as a HC, Wally used a team approach with his coaches in makinng personell decisions, with Wally having the option to unilateraly make a decision, which he didn't tend to do that often but on occasions did.

In the best of all worlds, I would prefer a HC who knew his x and o's and at the same time is a leader who can offer insights to his coordinators. Hufnagel is able to do that.

But the most important role of the HC, is to hire good coordinators and assistants, set direction and philosphy, establish guidelines and standards, and have all players on the same page. But there is no question that the HC is the one who creates the atmosphere and the expectations and vision.

A HC who micromanages his coordinators is going to have headaches. However, a HC who really understands strategy on both sides of the football is a real asset - more importantly when there are inexperienced coordinators.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Potential coaches from the NCAA ranks who might be worth a look as they each have experience as a player or coach in the CFL(not even sure we could get 'em, but just brainstorming here):

Steve Sarkesian - Head Coach USC
Doug Nussmeier - OC Michigan
Kerwin Bell - Head Coach Jacksonville University

Thoughts?
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How about Jeff Tedford. As long as his health is okay, he has ties to Wally going back to the late 80's/early 90's. Good offensive mind, coming off being the OC for the Bucs.
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.
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The_Pauser wrote:Potential coaches from the NCAA ranks who might be worth a look as they each have experience as a player or coach in the CFL(not even sure we could get 'em, but just brainstorming here):

Steve Sarkesian - Head Coach USC
Doug Nussmeier - OC Michigan
Kerwin Bell - Head Coach Jacksonville University

Thoughts?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they make more money down south ?
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TheLionKing wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:Potential coaches from the NCAA ranks who might be worth a look as they each have experience as a player or coach in the CFL(not even sure we could get 'em, but just brainstorming here):
p
Steve Sarkesian - Head Coach USC
Doug Nussmeier - OC Michigan
Kerwin Bell - Head Coach Jacksonville University

Thoughts?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they make more money down south ?
Usually lots more TheLionKing....which adds to the challenge of going south for a HC. Of course, if they haven't been a HC before, the opportunity to do so is a real plus.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Post deleted.
Last edited by ballhawk on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"the 1996 season was a very difficult period... I couldn't imagine telling people that I was part of the last days of the CFL... it seemed that there would be no end to the continuous stream of catastrophic problems... it was like living in a toxic fishbowl... if they had known how serious the situation was, but we couldn't make it public, for fear of a total meltdown". (from Bigger Balls, The CFL and Overcoming the Canadian Inferiority Complex, by Jeff Giles)
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Post deleted.
Last edited by ballhawk on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"the 1996 season was a very difficult period... I couldn't imagine telling people that I was part of the last days of the CFL... it seemed that there would be no end to the continuous stream of catastrophic problems... it was like living in a toxic fishbowl... if they had known how serious the situation was, but we couldn't make it public, for fear of a total meltdown". (from Bigger Balls, The CFL and Overcoming the Canadian Inferiority Complex, by Jeff Giles)
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Blitz wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:Potential coaches from the NCAA ranks who might be worth a look as they each have experience as a player or coach in the CFL(not even sure we could get 'em, but just brainstorming here):
p
Steve Sarkesian - Head Coach USC
Doug Nussmeier - OC Michigan
Kerwin Bell - Head Coach Jacksonville University

Thoughts?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they make more money down south ?
Usually lots more TheLionKing....which adds to the challenge of going south for a HC. Of course, if they haven't been a HC before, the opportunity to do so is a real plus.
True. Not sure what Bell makes at Jacksonville University, but I would think Sarkesian probably makes a nice salary at USC. Nussmeier might be the more realistic option as he's only an OC. He's played and coached in the CFL before (was the Lions QB coach back in 2001).

Also, Charlie Taaffe is currently an OC in the NCAA, so if he would be considered a potential option I don't know why Nussmeier wouldn't. Taaffe is also the same age as Wally, so doesn't really fit with Wally's mantra of someone new and fresh.
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korey&dante4ever wrote:How about Jeff Tedford. As long as his health is okay, he has ties to Wally going back to the late 80's/early 90's. Good offensive mind, coming off being the OC for the Bucs.
Tedford has been away from the Bucs this season because of an ongoing heart condition. Hard to know whether it's going to be a chronic condition or not. The Bucs released Tedford from his contract last Friday. Seems like a long shot at this point.
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