Lions' Post Season and on into 2015

[ballhawk]

I have to agree with SP about the negativity here recently. Reminds me of the old Area51 days! People can play armchair GM and HC all they want, but let's face it, none of us are, were or ever will be the real thing! Lets show a little respect for fellow fans!

Ziggy, I couldn't agree with you more. The negative rhetoric and personal attacks on this website by some posters is just unbearable and getting worse. Lots of innuendo and hearsay. Some posters fail to realize that they are giving opinion, not fact. Some posters are claiming that they are really knowledgeable and know the inside story. I doubt it. Fortunately there are a majority of true Lions' fans (in my opinion) who don't share the opinions of some posters on this forum. Pat...pat...pat...on the back.

[South Pender]

Science is merely contemporary opinions until we prove them false.

Well, no. Empirical science has established countless facts. I think what you might have meant is that hypotheses (not facts) are proposed and supported until disconfirmed via the scientific process. In any case, as a behavioral scientist at a major university, I can't let the comment about hereditary factors in psychological traits having no effect go unchallenged. (This is the second time you've asserted this fallacy.) The fact is that behavioral geneticists and neuropsychologists have long established that genetic factors are major contributors to intelligence, normal personality dimensions, emotion factors, psychological stability, psychoses and other pathological conditions,and hundreds of other psychological traits. To argue otherwise is to ignore more than a century of hard science on the topic, not to mention observations we've all had about certain traits seeming to "run in families." Current estimates of the heritability of general intelligence, for example--based on literally thousands of empirical studies and many more-recent meta-analyses--place the heritability index at about .60-.70, which means that 60-70% of the variation in human intelligence is attributable to genetic variation. This is very off-topic here, but, if you want scientific references, I can provide them.

As to your OPINION comparing MB and DD...there is a HUGE difference. Dickenson applied and interviewed for the position of QB coach in CGY...he was Huff's guy because Huff found him to be the most capable in that role. Dickenson was also the greatest QB in the history of Montana football, and one of the very best in the CFL and so good that he won a spot on San Diego's active roster. These were all powerful indicators that he could handle his first role. Benny didn't play football professionally, he started as a VOLUNTEER for Wally, with Wally eventually GIVING HIM a job...as for saying that MB went through the normal progression to become a HC, NO HE DIDN'T, he was GIFTED a series of jobs by Wally Buono without EVER PROVING that he was a better candidate than anybody else...and never excelled at any one role!

I disagree with your opinion above. Benevides also applied and was presumably interviewed for the position of ST and LB coach in Calgary with Wally, and he became Wally's guy because Wally found him to be the most capable in that role. The big difference was DD's outstanding playing record (and none for MB). In fact, MB went through the same progression of lesser coaching roles (albeit on the defensive side) as DD on his way to becoming HC--actually a longer progression than DD. And do we have any real evidence that MB "never excelled" in any of his coaching roles? If so, I'd like to see it, and I don't mean after-the-fact selective recollections.

I also find the characterization of Wally as this puppet-master pulling strings to enhance his reputation more conspiracy theory than evidence-based. Again, just my opinion in the same way that this characterization is your opinion.

Anyway, MLF, let's agree to disagree about these points and put this away now.

[WestCoastJoe]

I have to agree with SP about the negativity here recently. Reminds me of the old Area51 days! People can play armchair GM and HC all they want, but let's face it, none of us are, were or ever will be the real thing! Lets show a little respect for fellow fans!

Ziggy, I couldn't agree with you more. The negative rhetoric and personal attacks on this website by some posters is just unbearable and getting worse. Lots of innuendo and hearsay. Some posters fail to realize that they are giving opinion, not fact. Some posters are claiming that they are really knowledgeable and know the inside story. I doubt it. Fortunately there are a majority of true Lions' fans (in my opinion) who don't share the opinions of some posters on this forum. Pat...pat...pat...on the back.

Lots of unhappy posters, it seems.

Is anybody coming back next year?

Yes, I mentioned one inside bit of information. I stand by that. Yes, I do. Yes, I use hindsight. Yes I criticize Buono. And I give credit to Buono. I have those that support me. I have those that do not. Life goes on. With or without this pastime.

Posters unhappy? This Moderator is not too happy either. When it is like this, I question my commitment to this website. It is a habit, and it can be fun. When it is not fun, it does not suit me.

If it stays negative, towards each other, towards the posts of others, I will not be part of it. Can I tear myself away from this site. Absolutely. Permanently? Oh yes. "This is not about you, or just about you." Doesn't matter.

Someone else can start threads. Someone else can start discussions. Go for it. Carry some of it.

[ziggy]

I'm with you. I do not mind people having an adult discussion and indeed have no problem when there is a difference opinion. What I'm seeing now on here, often drops below the standard of adult behaviour and is in more like a lame attempt of school yard cyber bullying! While that behaviour may impress or intimidate adolescents, its pretty lame when tried on Adults and says a lot about the perpetrator.

I don't know what real or imagined football, or indeed life experience anyone on the site has, but I'm betting no one is a professional coach or GM, and there's good reason for that! I also know anonymous posters can create their own reality and often do, so I'll just leave it at that.

On that note, I'm happy to take the advice of whoever said, if you don't like it don't read it. Think I'll now join the ranks of the many former Linebacker posters!

[MexicoLionFan]

Science is merely contemporary opinions until we prove them false.

Well, no. Empirical science has established countless facts. I think what you might have meant is that hypotheses (not facts) are proposed and supported until disconfirmed via the scientific process. In any case, as a behavioral scientist at a major university, I can't let the comment about hereditary factors in psychological traits having no effect go unchallenged. (This is the second time you've asserted this fallacy.) The fact is that behavioral geneticists and neuropsychologists have long established that genetic factors are major contributors to intelligence, normal personality dimensions, emotion factors, psychological stability, psychoses and other pathological conditions,and hundreds of other psychological traits. To argue otherwise is to ignore more than a century of hard science on the topic, not to mention observations we've all had about certain traits seeming to "run in families." Current estimates of the heritability of general intelligence, for example--based on literally thousands of empirical studies and many more-recent meta-analyses--place the heritability index at about .60-.70, which means that 60-70% of the variation in human intelligence is attributable to genetic variation. This is very off-topic here, but, if you want scientific references, I can provide them.

As to your OPINION comparing MB and DD...there is a HUGE difference. Dickenson applied and interviewed for the position of QB coach in CGY...he was Huff's guy because Huff found him to be the most capable in that role. Dickenson was also the greatest QB in the history of Montana football, and one of the very best in the CFL and so good that he won a spot on San Diego's active roster. These were all powerful indicators that he could handle his first role. Benny didn't play football professionally, he started as a VOLUNTEER for Wally, with Wally eventually GIVING HIM a job...as for saying that MB went through the normal progression to become a HC, NO HE DIDN'T, he was GIFTED a series of jobs by Wally Buono without EVER PROVING that he was a better candidate than anybody else...and never excelled at any one role!

I disagree with your opinion above. Benevides also applied and was presumably interviewed for the position of ST and LB coach in Calgary with Wally, and he became Wally's guy because Wally found him to be the most capable in that role. The big difference was DD's outstanding playing record (and none for MB). In fact, MB went through the same progression of lesser coaching roles (albeit on the defensive side) as DD on his way to becoming HC--actually a longer progression than DD. And do we have any real evidence that MB "never excelled" in any of his coaching roles? If so, I'd like to see it, and I don't mean after-the-fact selective recollections.

I also find the characterization of Wally as this puppet-master pulling strings to enhance his reputation more conspiracy theory than evidence-based. Again, just my opinion in the same way that this characterization is your opinion.

Anyway, MLF, let's agree to disagree about these points and put this away now.

There are no problems here SP, only beliefs, simply don't read something if it displeases you...you are always free to choose in any moment! All I can do is share my thoughts, which are always opinions!

The Scientific world knows that there are NO FACTS at all...even gravity is just a theory, which is an opinion...or have you not followed Quantum Physics to the notion of the Holographic Universe? Are you aware of the double slit experiment? It is the most replicated laboratory experiment in human history because the results are astonishing...MATTER IS NOT SOLID, it does not act like we have been told, it is infinite waves of endless possibilities, or haven't you heard of Quantum Mathematics? There is a scientist, Dr. Bruce Lipton, his experiments and findings, all replicated hundreds of thousands of times now, tell us all that we need to know about Heredity...it plays no more than a 3% role in human development (and that's because there is 0-3% variance)...Dr. Lipton removed the nucleus from living cells and they continued to function normally without the ability to reproduce. He then took cancerous cells from a human body and kept them alive in a petry dish...he then subjected these cells to chants from Tibetan Monks, classical music, beautiful words and images...those cells HEALED THEMSELVES OUTSIDE of the body they came from. Are you aware of the Stevie Wonder produced documentary on the secret life of plants? Do you know we share almost identical DNA with most mammals and many animals? That a banana shares 50% of our DNA? Do you know what a fractal is? Have you heard of the Golden mean, the Fibonacci sequence? Do you know how all cells structures in nature are created?

All any of us are what we believe in any moment! I do not dislike you at all and appreciate most of your comments here. I am simply addressing your consistent invitations to conflict because you think that I know something as fact versus than sharing an opinion. Do you understand how futile that is as by definition as all we share with anyone is an opinion? Scientists themselves understand that all Science can be is a guess in any moment based upon what we currently hold as TRUTH, simply waiting to be disproved, which is the beauty of true science, we do NOT hold what we KNOW as our champion, rather the PROCESS that nothing is fact and is waiting for further clarification or refuting! Einstein was EXCITED to be proven wrong with theory of relativity. Relativity only functions "out there" in the macro world, it does not work within, in the Micro world of cells. And what is the human body? Trillions of Cells, and what are cells but membranes that house atomic structures...which we know as the DENSEST MATTER in the known Universe, and what are atoms? 99.99999% empty space...so what is real? You think its a house or a granite counter top? They are both 99.99999% empty space! Our reality is based entirely upon electrical signals our brain receives and responds to! Where does our vision come from? Are you like most students who are taught that what we see comes from "out there", filled with matter that is all just empty space, or do you actually know that vision comes from deep inside the brain in the visual cortex centre where our brain processes images by guessing because it doesn’t know where things are. In a three-dimensional world, the light actually falls on our retina in a two-dimensional fashion. So our brain approximates viewable image from the visual cortex! I will leave you with 10 VERY INTERESTING CURRENT OPINIONS about the brain...they all point to environment as our determiner (which means what we believe in) and not heredity...

1. Your brain does creative work better when you’re tired
2. Stress can change the size of your brain (and make it smaller)
3. It is literally impossible for our brains to multi-task
4. Naps improve your brain’s day to day performance
5. Your vision trumps all other senses (and its an approximation from the visual cortex, not out there)
6. Introversion and extroversion come from how are brains recharge
7. We tend to like people who make mistakes more
8. Meditation can rewire your brain for the better
9. Exercise can reorganize the brain and boost your willpower
10. You can make your brain think time is going slowly by doing new things

[South Pender]

MLF, there's no point in continuing this off-topic discussion. If you're interested, PM me, and I'll furnish some references from behavioral genetics. Or you can read this Wiki article and pick out some studies from their reference list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

The 2011 Davies et al., paper in Molecular Psychiatry is a good one and is recent. The 2004 meta-analytic study by Bouchard is probably more definitive.

[Toppy Vann]

I'm with you. I do not mind people having an adult discussion and indeed have no problem when there is a difference opinion. What I'm seeing now on here, often drops below the standard of adult behaviour and is in more like a lame attempt of school yard cyber bullying! While that behaviour may impress or intimidate adolescents, its pretty lame when tried on Adults and says a lot about the perpetrator.

I don't know what real or imagined football, or indeed life experience anyone on the site has, but I'm betting no one is a professional coach or GM, and there's good reason for that! I also know anonymous posters can create their own reality and often do, so I'll just leave it at that.

On that note, I'm happy to take the advice of whoever said, if you don't like it don't read it. Think I'll now join the ranks of the many former Linebacker posters!

I 'm not certain any here have engaged in cyber bullying or personal attacks as I think the moderators do a good job.

No need for anyone not to post their views and give a balanced perspective which I do think exists here.

I think Wally gets off pretty well for his fine record in the CFL that can never be tarnished and gets a lot of credit.

I guess many fans are really angry at how his hand picked successor presided over successive slides such that this year's 9 and 9 is even hammered on not nicely from players inside the locker room. When you hear players claiming that the ship is not being run right - McCallum - on how some didn't park in the right place you know there are real problems in this team.

Wally says the environment and culture must be fixed. He is very right. How he has done his public whipping is questioned too by the media as too controlling . Some like me think it is his job to do a better job of guiding his HC but others hammmer him for sitting on the roof and actually going public.

Then you have a severely injured QB who is trotted out as face of the Lions and no real no. 1 in sight. A mix for board fodder.

Your views and others who feel it is too negative add some other aspect to the discussions which are good too. Keep it up.

[ballhawk]

Anyway, back to football!! MexicoLionFan, when you mentioned that Wally was basically responsible for keeping Iannuzzi on the field, how to do you know that? Is this fact, or is it your impression. Let's be careful what we say here.

Look, I too felt that Iannuzzi and Poblah should have been replaced with the younger guys (at least give them all a good look under game conditions), but obviously the coaching staff felt otherwise. I also felt that Glenn should have been replaced by Beck and Partridge on occasion, so they at least had the equivalent of 1 full game of experience over 18 games, but again, the coaching staff felt differently. Whose decision was it, Wally's, the HC, the coordinators? We don't know, but that's the decision they made. You can't say it was Wally's decision, because you don't know that. It's easy for me to be critical, but the coaches are the ones who have to live with their decisions. Maybe they had good reason.... again we don't know their reasons.

I can be critical, but I can respect Wally and the coaches because I believe they are doing the best they can. I like what they have done over the years for Vancouver. I disagreed with their decisions a lot during this season; however, I support the Lions. I just don't like seeing the Lions players and coaches slammed relentlessly by lion backers.

[WestCoastJoe]

Anyway, back to football!! MexicoLionFan, when you mentioned that Wally was basically responsible for keeping Iannuzzi on the field, how to do you know that? Is this fact, or is it your impression. Let's be careful what we say here.

Whose decision was it, Wally's, the HC, the coordinators? We don't know, but that's the decision they made. You can't say it was Wally's decision, because you don't know that.

I just don't like seeing the Lions players and coaches slammed relentlessly by lion backers.

That is not football. That is an attack on another member here.

[ballhawk]

Oh get serious WestCoastJoe!!

[TheLionKing]

Oh get serious WestCoastJoe!!

X2. How is that perceived as an attack on another member ??

[South Pender]

Oh get serious WestCoastJoe!!

Seconded, whoops, missed TLK's post. OK, thirded. My goodness, I remember not so long ago (last spring, I think) a forum member accusing another member (and a Mod at that!) of plagiarism! And not a peep of admonition. Ballhawk's comments pale into complete insignificance in comparison. Wait, let me rephrase that: The hostility found in Ballhawk's comments (and there really wasn't any) pales into complete and utter insignificance in comparison with that found with the plagiarism charge.

[WestCoastJoe]

I nominate ballhawk and South Pender to run for office. Run this website. Be its moral guardians. Impose their standards. They can judge others for the negative content of their posts. They can call others negative, but cloak themselves in moral superiority, judging others. They are not negative in doing so, at least in their own minds ...

It is the end of the year. Get it all out.

South Pender, you have been a pain since you viciously attacked Mike Beamish. You are a sneaky trouble maker.

[South Pender]

I nominate ballhawk and South Pender to run for office. Run this website. Be its moral guardians. Impose their standards. They can judge others for the negative content of their posts. They can call others negative, but cloak themselves in moral superiority, judging others. They are not negative in doing so, at least in their own minds ...

It is the end of the year. Get it all out.

Goodness, is that an attack on other members? Surely not from one who inveighs so strongly against such things!

[South Pender]

South Pender, you have been a pain since you viciously attacked Mike Beamish. You are a sneaky trouble maker.

So now you're reduced to name-calling? Well...your accusing another member (a Mod) of plagiarism ain't too nice either, Joe.