Driving home from the stadium after the game, the thing that resonated with me the most was how cool it was to watch the QB matchup of Collaros and Mitchell.
Two young, good QB's, both look like born winners. It was awesome to watch. Collaros' show of emotion with a big fist pump after the bomb to Banks was cool. "Game on".
I became a big fan of those two QB's. They'll meet again in a Grey Cup.
Grey Cup, GDT and Post Game Comments
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- korey&dante4ever
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Its a shame Steve Armitage wasnt the one to interview Andy Fantuz. BB
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It's also worth considering that had someone else tackled Banks before he took another five strides from when the flag flew, we wouldn't even be discussing this. The ball was spotted immediately afterward on the Ham12, which means the 10yd illegal block penalty was applied from the Ham22, which is about where the foul occurred.Coast Mountain Lion wrote:I'm hearing a lot about how it shouldn't have been a penalty since the tackler wasn't in a position to make a tackle anyway. I appreciate that officials have discretion to call a penalty or not, but all of my life I've been under the impression (maybe naively at times) that a foul is a foul, in any sport, whether it directly affects the ball/puck carrier or not. Have they changed the rules or their interpretation somewhere that I didn't notice?
The official saw the foul and promptly threw the flag with 0:49 left on the clock. At this point Banks had not only not yet advanced the ball very far from where he took it at the Ham20, he was in fact still in his initial retreat near the Ham17 trying to get outside the coverage before his shoulders got squared and he was heading straight upfield — which wasn't until around 0:45.
When the official threw his flag at 0:49, he had no idea how far Banks would ultimately advance the ball, nor is it his job to gauge this before throwing his flag. Any complaint about Ham being denied a TD is a hindsight argument.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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The referees have been calling that all season, why should they not call it in the Grey Cup ?
Well said, IMO and also anything that is worth calling in the first and second quarters should be called late too, IMO. Too often it seems the mantra is 'let the players play'. Why not play within the rules? Not only that, make calls consistent THROUGHOUT the game. The official certainly did his job on tossing that flag, IMO....TheLionKing wrote:The referees have been calling that all season, why should they not call it in the Grey Cup ?
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Ballistic Bob wrote:Its a shame Steve Armitage wasnt the one to interview Andy Fantuz. BB
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They should got the gift 7 on the penalty - instead that was time wasting, amateurish and got them just 3. In other words, they needed to have a play package or two for that situation that can be called quickly.Rammer wrote:Call had to be made, it wasn't flagrant, but a foul is a foul is a foul. Lions had those go against them all season long never learning from it, if you can't learn from past calls, then you get called again on it. This was just a poor judgement, a player going for that extra edge in a big game at a big time, and Hamilton paid the price for it.
With that said, I have seen more impactful visible fouls let go....Dressler returns come to mind.
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- MexicoLionFan
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Joe, I said the same thing right away...technically yes that was a penalty, but the illegal block did NOT make that play happen...it could just of easily been NOT called and resulted in a finish for the ages...WestCoastJoe wrote:http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/516 ... cally-no-/
Technically right. Agreed.Milton: Was it an illegal block? Technically, yes. Holistically? No.
BLOCKING CALL
Barry Gray,The Hamilton Spectator
Hamilton Spectator
By Steve Milton
VANCOUVER Calgary fans, and the chief official himself, have it right when they insist that the game-deciding illegal block called against Taylor Reed on Brandon Banks' electrifying punt return was in fact a penalty.
And Kent Austin had it right when he said that, on every single special teams play, something untoward happens and sometimes it's called and sometimes it's not.
The CFL has acknowledged the meaning of Austin's point many times over the years, mostly off the record but several times quite dramatically on it: such as when they announced alterations to the blocking rules and points of emphasis a handful of years ago to encourage more runbacks. We have seen by the number of return majors that the constant tweaking has been a resounding success.
What they were saying, without quite saying it, was that officials had to have a much better sense of time and place. Better holistic judgment. That went not just for returns but for offensive line action, as in holding. Encourage offence, encourage excitement, let the quarterbacks have a chance to change the game, as Bo Levi Mitchell did Sunday.
In Grey Cup CII, that selective judgment was applied quite well in the trenches — sorry, Calgarians, but most often along the Stamps' offensive line — but it was not applied on the play which could have become perhaps the greatest in the history of the game. Instead, we have the officials able to pat themselves on the collective back and say we got it right.
Technically, maybe, yes.
But, holistically, no. That block did not spring Banks and it should have been obvious to the people in three different uniforms — black and gold, red and white and black and white — who were closest to it.
What could have become the Greatest Game of All Time, just because of the finish is now, outside of Calgary, just another championship game with some controversy.
If you tried hard enough, you could probably actually put a dollar figure on what that cost the CFL in lost marketing opportunities.
And it would not be small.
And yet it seemed to me there was no way on this planet that defender would have gotten a hand on Banks.
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Probably better that the penalty was called (a correct decision by the refs) than to have the game remembered as one that was decided by an incorrect non-call by the officials. In the latter case, I suspect that the game would have been remembered more in a negative way as a "stolen" win, than in a positive way as one of the greatest GCs. Somewhat (although not completely) similar to the recollections of Super Bowl 40 when the Seahawks were victims of bad officiating. In the minds of many (and not just Seahawks fans), that was the legacy of that game and not much else.
Agreed. The Hamilton blocker admitted he was in the wrong. The officials got it right. So the game was potentially decided on a correct call? That's not the league's problem.South Pender wrote:Probably better that the penalty was called (a correct decision by the refs) than to have the game remembered as one that was decided by an incorrect non-call by the officials. In the latter case, I suspect that the game would have been remembered more in a negative way as a "stolen" win, than in a positive way as one of the greatest GCs. Somewhat (although not completely) similar to the recollections of Super Bowl 40 when the Seahawks were victims of bad officiating. In the minds of many (and not just Seahawks fans), that was the legacy of that game and not much else.
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Again I don't think you are listening to what we are saying...no one has said that it wasn't pushing in the back...I have helped to ref before, at the highest level they tell you the same thing, if it is away from the play or doesn't sway the outcome of the play then DON'T THROW THE FLAG! The Best Man at my wedding was CFL ref Murray Clarke (a great football player in his own right)...I haven't talked to Murray yet about the game or the call, but I know he would say the same thing that I am saying...it was correct to throw the flag, but if they didn't throw it, that would have been okay as well. It was close, but the CGY player wasn't going to make the tackle...I am okay with the call either way!
Last edited by MexicoLionFan on Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
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As I indicated on the previous page, the call was correct, especially as the rule book, and its interpretation, stands now.VANCOUVER Calgary fans, and the chief official himself, have it right when they insist that the game-deciding illegal block called against Taylor Reed on Brandon Banks' electrifying punt return was in fact a penalty.
And Kent Austin had it right when he said that, on every single special teams play, something untoward happens and sometimes it's called and sometimes it's not.
The CFL has acknowledged the meaning of Austin's point many times over the years, mostly off the record but several times quite dramatically on it: such as when they announced alterations to the blocking rules and points of emphasis a handful of years ago to encourage more runbacks. We have seen by the number of return majors that the constant tweaking has been a resounding success.
What they were saying, without quite saying it, was that officials had to have a much better sense of time and place. Better holistic judgment. That went not just for returns but for offensive line action, as in holding. Encourage offence, encourage excitement, let the quarterbacks have a chance to change the game, as Bo Levi Mitchell did Sunday.
In Grey Cup CII, that selective judgment was applied quite well in the trenches — sorry, Calgarians, but most often along the Stamps' offensive line — but it was not applied on the play which could have become perhaps the greatest in the history of the game. Instead, we have the officials able to pat themselves on the collective back and say we got it right.
For myself, as a fan, I like to see great kick returns. I like to see offence. When there is an infraction that does not affect the outcome of the play, as with PI on the far side of the field, away from the play, it seems counter-productive to the spirit of the game to call it.
The defender was close to Banks. Close enough to lay on a hand on the very fast Banks? Not in my opinion. Could the rule be tweaked to allow such a return? It is so close. A different official might not have called it. Is the official supposed to note that the returner is as quick as The Flash? No. A slower returner might have been caught by the defender. As noted, if it was uncalled, there would be a huge ground swell of criticism saying it should have been called, could have been called. The block was right in front on the screen, close to the returner. Not somewhere in the background. Best to chalk it up as a close one. Still a penalty? Gotta be called, as the rules interpretations stand now, I think, as it is right in front of everybody.
Best to chalk it up as a close one. Close calls? Like Jackie Robinson stealing home against the Yankees. Yogi Berra to this day says he tagged Robinson out. Look at the tape. It is that close. LOL
As Taylor Reed said, he should not have made it that close. Just wall the defender off. Just hold your position. Keep your angle. As in basketball, if he moves into your angle, you did not foul. And that would have been it.
Great game.
Tired of this discussion? Read something else.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
- WestCoastJoe
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God bless Jackie Robinson.
And God bless Yogi Berra also.
I always thought Jackie was safe. Not so sure now. LOL
Ball in glove. Glove between the foot and the plate. Ooohhhh
Look at Yogi getting in the face of the umpire. LOL
It is a judgment call, and the judgments are part of the game. Gotta roll with it.
I took a screenshot from the video. Looks like out to me, at this time.
I did some umpiring once upon a time. Tough job. The ump did not get in good position to see the play.
And God bless Yogi Berra also.
I always thought Jackie was safe. Not so sure now. LOL
Ball in glove. Glove between the foot and the plate. Ooohhhh
Look at Yogi getting in the face of the umpire. LOL
It is a judgment call, and the judgments are part of the game. Gotta roll with it.
I took a screenshot from the video. Looks like out to me, at this time.
I did some umpiring once upon a time. Tough job. The ump did not get in good position to see the play.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Ive seen defenders turn their back and get blocked. No call on those ones. Thnx BB
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- Lions4ever
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It's "just've" not "just of". As in: just have. And I agree with you. It was very ticky tack and overly strict IMO.MexicoLionFan wrote:
..it could just of easily been NOT called and resulted in a finish for the ages...