Might as well start a thread on this subject ...
The most important position in football.
Re QBs ... was a time when many spoke of Wally's quarterback factory. That time is past.
Toronto builds quarterbacks. Ray goes down. In comes Zach Collaros. Kent Austin knows QBs. He snaps up Collaros on the FA market.
Ray goes down again. In comes Trevor Harris.
Over in Hamilton, Kent Austin can judge quarterbacks. And he can build QBs. Release Burris. Sign Collaros. Develop LeFevour.
Back in Calgary, can Hufnagel and Dickenson manage a quarterback platoon? Um ... Yeah. Pick up Burris. Move on from Burris. Bring in Glenn. Develop Tate. Develop Mitchell.
How are we doing out here? The cupboard is just about bare. It seems to me that Jacques Chapdelaine deserves some credit for the richness of our quarterbacking group in his time here. Dickenson. Printers. Pierce. Jackson. Lulay. Reilly. Long list.
(Uh oh ... Hindsight foul, called by cromartie once again.) LOL
Of course I am going to look at past events. How else can anyone learn from history?
.............
Kevin Glenn? Much talk about not bringing him back. My God. Our offensive woes were so bad that fans cannot abide the thought of his return. I would say that we need him, as a backup, at least. Or we will be even worse off.
Travis Lulay. His health status is unknown to us fans. I have to think the odds are against a near full recovery, or even a satisfactory recovery. And he is even more vulnerable now to re-injury.
John Beck? Dunno ... Need to see more. A re-cycled NFL veteran without much professional quarterbacking success on his resume.
Travis Partridge ... I like his moxie. Strong arm. Pretty mobile. We should have given him more reps. He showed pretty well in a calamitous situation in Montreal.
Jordan Rodgers? Dunno ...
The days of trading guys off our depth chart to stock pile draft picks are long gone.
Lions' Quarterback Roster ... 2014, 2015 ...
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- WestCoastJoe
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John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
I am going to add a couple of neg list QB's of the Lions into this equation. ..
Josh Freeman and Terrelle Pryor, not sure on what they bring to the table for the CFL other than size. I did see Pryor in a Seattle preseason game and he looked decent.
Josh Freeman and Terrelle Pryor, not sure on what they bring to the table for the CFL other than size. I did see Pryor in a Seattle preseason game and he looked decent.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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Pryor is very mobile and extremely fast (ran a 4.4 in his Pro Day in 2011), but he's a lousy passer--no accuracy. I'd say that Josh Freeman lacks the mobility to be a successful CFL quarterback, although he does have a big arm. Slightly reminiscent of Spergon Wynn--big, but lead-footed. Doubt that either would consider the CFL with some chance of remaining in the NFL. Pryor was just worked out by the Eagles, so some interest remains.Rammer wrote:I am going to add a couple of neg list QB's of the Lions into this equation. ..
Josh Freeman and Terrelle Pryor, not sure on what they bring to the table for the CFL other than size. I did see Pryor in a Seattle preseason game and he looked decent.
Did you watch Nichols play last week? LeFevour is a far superior player. Nichols is going to have a tough time remaining as a backup in this league.Spud387 wrote:I'd like to see Lulay & either Nichols or LeFevour battling for the starting job. Then Partridge, Rodgers & any newcomers battling for the third stringer position.
yeah, Nichols looked almost as bad as AC did in hamiltonChildress wrote:Did you watch Nichols play last week? LeFevour is a far superior player. Nichols is going to have a tough time remaining as a backup in this league.Spud387 wrote:I'd like to see Lulay & either Nichols or LeFevour battling for the starting job. Then Partridge, Rodgers & any newcomers battling for the third stringer position.
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
Too bad the Lions didn't develop T. Partridge more. After a rocky 1st-series in the ESF he started to find his legs and showed some promise. We definitely want to invite him to camp.
It was reported T. Lulay tweaked his shoulder on Sunday reaching up to catch a ball in the pre-game warmups. This apparently prevented him from playing on Sunday. Next year the Lions will need to have QB in camp capable of starting, just in case Lulay isn't ready to go.
Who are the best available free agents? I believe T. Sunseri and D. LaFevour are available...along with J. Beck and K. Glenn (who was good enough to win 9 games with the Lions this year?) As a backup, Glenn is all you could ask for...but as a playoff starter, not so much.
Hamilton's LeFevour was starting to really come on before he suffered his unfortunate knee injury. He showed excellent mobility in the M. Reilly-mold and was finding his receivers. While everyone seems down on Sunseri in Riderville, I thought he played very well, just lacking some consistency. Coming off the bench in the 2Q against Calgary, Sunseri went 16 of 19 for 289 yds, passing and rushing for TD's and throwing three 2-pt. converts (a Pro-Football record). Sunseri looks like a good prospect to me.
Here are the QB ratings last year (500+ yds passing):
Mitchell 98
R. Ray 95
LaFevour 92
Collaros 92
Sunseri 91
Reilly 89
Durant 88
Tate 86
Glenn 86
Crompton 85
Willy 84
Burris 79
Nichols 77
T. Smith 64
Joseph 62
I'd say sign both LaFevour and Sunseri if possible, and invite T. Partridge and a top college prospect to camp...along with J. Beck if T. Lulay is still on the mend? K. Glenn might be the "Best of the Backups" but might not be salable in Vancouver after his weak ESF outing.
It was reported T. Lulay tweaked his shoulder on Sunday reaching up to catch a ball in the pre-game warmups. This apparently prevented him from playing on Sunday. Next year the Lions will need to have QB in camp capable of starting, just in case Lulay isn't ready to go.
Who are the best available free agents? I believe T. Sunseri and D. LaFevour are available...along with J. Beck and K. Glenn (who was good enough to win 9 games with the Lions this year?) As a backup, Glenn is all you could ask for...but as a playoff starter, not so much.
Hamilton's LeFevour was starting to really come on before he suffered his unfortunate knee injury. He showed excellent mobility in the M. Reilly-mold and was finding his receivers. While everyone seems down on Sunseri in Riderville, I thought he played very well, just lacking some consistency. Coming off the bench in the 2Q against Calgary, Sunseri went 16 of 19 for 289 yds, passing and rushing for TD's and throwing three 2-pt. converts (a Pro-Football record). Sunseri looks like a good prospect to me.
Here are the QB ratings last year (500+ yds passing):
Mitchell 98
R. Ray 95
LaFevour 92
Collaros 92
Sunseri 91
Reilly 89
Durant 88
Tate 86
Glenn 86
Crompton 85
Willy 84
Burris 79
Nichols 77
T. Smith 64
Joseph 62
I'd say sign both LaFevour and Sunseri if possible, and invite T. Partridge and a top college prospect to camp...along with J. Beck if T. Lulay is still on the mend? K. Glenn might be the "Best of the Backups" but might not be salable in Vancouver after his weak ESF outing.
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JohnHenry wrote:Too bad the Lions didn't develop T. Partridge more. After a rocky 1st-series in the ESF he started to find his legs and showed some promise. We definitely want to invite him to camp.
It was reported T. Lulay tweaked his shoulder on Sunday reaching up to catch a ball in the pre-game warmups. This apparently prevented him from playing on Sunday. Next year the Lions will need to have QB in camp capable of starting, just in case Lulay isn't ready to go.
Who are the best available free agents? I believe T. Sunseri and D. LaFevour are available...along with J. Beck and K. Glenn (who was good enough to win 9 games with the Lions this year?) As a backup, Glenn is all you could ask for...but as a playoff starter, not so much.
Hamilton's LeFevour was starting to really come on before he suffered his unfortunate knee injury. He showed excellent mobility in the M. Reilly-mold and was finding his receivers. While everyone seems down on Sunseri in Riderville, I thought he played very well, just lacking some consistency. Coming off the bench in the 2Q against Calgary, Sunseri went 16 of 19 for 289 yds, passing and rushing for TD's and throwing three 2-pt. converts (a Pro-Football record). Sunseri looks like a good prospect to me.
Here are the QB ratings last year (500+ yds passing):
Mitchell 98
R. Ray 95
LaFevour 92
Collaros 92
Sunseri 91
Reilly 89
Durant 88
Tate 86
Glenn 86
Crompton 85
Willy 84
Burris 79
Nichols 77
T. Smith 64
Joseph 62
I'd say sign both LaFevour and Sunseri if possible, and invite T. Partridge and a top college prospect to camp...along with J. Beck if T. Lulay is still on the mend? K. Glenn might be the "Best of the Backups" but might not be salable in Vancouver after his weak ESF outing.
Very good thoughts JH...I would still like us to go out and find a US College QB that wants to make a statement in Canada and bring him in as well...but I too like Patridge and I wrote at the time that it was a mistake to put Beck 2nd and Partridge 3rd...Partridge would have had more meaningful reps at practise and more game action this season...there's something about that kid that I like!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
The truth is that QB solutions tend to take awhile. Getting the right prospect, and then hoping he develops. Sometimes you spend three years with a QB before finding out he just doesn't have it.
Who is your coach going to be? I think that will say a lot about your next QB.
Who is your coach going to be? I think that will say a lot about your next QB.
I'd like to see Beck, Partridge and Rodgers back unless the Lions find another QB with more CFL experience to step in for Beck as No. 1. I don't want to see Kevin Glenn again. He plays his worst football at the most critical times. Lulay's next step should be into the coaching ranks.
Beck was hot and cold, completing less than 50% of his passes in limited reps, but he had 5 TD and 0 INTs and a QB rating of 110.5. He also impressed me by targeting his wideouts whenever he came off the bench. One of Glenn's biggest weaknesses was that he wasn't able to spread the field horizontally. He seldom looked to his WRs, throwing almost entirely to his two slots. Eventually, teams were able to shut them down by clogging the middle of the field with LBs and DBs. With his lack of height, Glenn also had too many passes batted down at the line or tipped and intercepted.
From the start of training camp, Partridge has reminded me somewhat of Buck Pierce and Mike Reilly in their rookie seasons. Working entirely with third stringers, he would buy time in the pocket, slide outside and hit a rookie receiver downfield on his second, third or fourth read. He did a bit of that in Montreal on Sunday, buying time in the pocket and going 7 of 11 with 2 TDs in garbage time. He's a big, strong, mobile playmaker. He also seems to have great character and strong family support like Pierce and Reilly. He could be the QB of the future. Here's Partridge's parting tweet today:
Beck was hot and cold, completing less than 50% of his passes in limited reps, but he had 5 TD and 0 INTs and a QB rating of 110.5. He also impressed me by targeting his wideouts whenever he came off the bench. One of Glenn's biggest weaknesses was that he wasn't able to spread the field horizontally. He seldom looked to his WRs, throwing almost entirely to his two slots. Eventually, teams were able to shut them down by clogging the middle of the field with LBs and DBs. With his lack of height, Glenn also had too many passes batted down at the line or tipped and intercepted.
From the start of training camp, Partridge has reminded me somewhat of Buck Pierce and Mike Reilly in their rookie seasons. Working entirely with third stringers, he would buy time in the pocket, slide outside and hit a rookie receiver downfield on his second, third or fourth read. He did a bit of that in Montreal on Sunday, buying time in the pocket and going 7 of 11 with 2 TDs in garbage time. He's a big, strong, mobile playmaker. He also seems to have great character and strong family support like Pierce and Reilly. He could be the QB of the future. Here's Partridge's parting tweet today:
LeFevour is a similar body type to Partridge and is a good running QB. I didn't like his mechanics when he first came into the league but he was a good change-of-pace QB off the bench, posing a challenge for defences, and he has consistently completed two-thirds of his passes as a starter and backup. A tandem of LeFevour and Partridge could be dangerous.Travis Partridge @tpartridge12
Rookie season went fast! Was an unbelievable learning experience and opportunity. Can't wait for next year!
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BCFAN, not wanting to see Kevin Glenn again, is your frustration/anger blaming Glenn for this debacle...he didn't play well and I don't think he should be our starter, but to get rid of him IS NOT THE ANSWER. Getting rid of the OLine coach that didn't protect him, the OC that didn't support him or put him in a position to be successful, the HC that stood by and did nothing and the GM who ultimately created the entire mess by not making changes at the top...these are more deserving targets than Kevin Glenn...If Lulay's shoulder had lasted for 2 more games before it went, he would have looked just as awful...there was no way to succeed consistently in this mess...every time we had success offensively the next team would adjust to what we did and we were back to square one with no answers...answer #1 was throw to Manny non stop...when that was taken away we have NO ANSWERS until the plan became throw to EJ non stop, until that was taken away...Manny and EJ were GHOSTS after their brief runs...
Promoting John Beck to #1 puts the Lions BELOW OTT as everyone one in world now knows how to rip apart our defence...Coaches, not players are the problem in Lionland and until that changes for the better, this will only continue with new names for the slaughter.
The Lions are are in REAL TROUBLE right now and if Glenn leaves, it only makes things worse...Lulay is done, John Beck isn't and never will be the answer as a starter...
Promoting John Beck to #1 puts the Lions BELOW OTT as everyone one in world now knows how to rip apart our defence...Coaches, not players are the problem in Lionland and until that changes for the better, this will only continue with new names for the slaughter.
The Lions are are in REAL TROUBLE right now and if Glenn leaves, it only makes things worse...Lulay is done, John Beck isn't and never will be the answer as a starter...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
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I have to agree that going into 2015 without a really experienced quarterback like Glenn would be a mistake. I think we need him back--primarily, we hope, as the No. 2 guy. Believing that Beck, Partridge, or Rodgers will rise to a true No. 1 level by the beginning of 2015 would, in my opinion, be a huge mistake and would almost guarantee continued offensive failure. As I've said before, I don't think Beck will ever make it as a starter in the CFL, and Partridge and, particularly, Rodgers are too green to assume the mantle of starting QB. We need Glenn as a steadying influence--and a guy we can go to in emergencies--while a new starter is learning the CFL ropes. My preference would be for the team to make a real priority of bringing in several promising QB candidates for the 2015 TC (and if we could snag a guy with CFL playing experience that would be ideal) and then blend in the guy who looks best with Glenn backing him up and providing veteran help.MexicoLionFan wrote:BCFAN, not wanting to see Kevin Glenn again, is your frustration/anger blaming Glenn for this debacle...he didn't play well and I don't think he should be our starter, but to get rid of him IS NOT THE ANSWER. Getting rid of the OLine coach that didn't protect him, the OC that didn't support him or put him in a position to be successful, the HC that stood by and did nothing and the GM who ultimately created the entire mess by not making changes at the top...these are more deserving targets than Kevin Glenn...If Lulay's shoulder had lasted for 2 more games before it went, he would have looked just as awful...there was no way to succeed consistently in this mess...every time we had success offensively the next team would adjust to what we did and we were back to square one with no answers...answer #1 was throw to Manny non stop...when that was taken away we have NO ANSWERS until the plan became throw to EJ non stop, until that was taken away...Manny and EJ were GHOSTS after their brief runs...
Promoting John Beck to #1 puts the Lions BELOW OTT as everyone one in world now knows how to rip apart our defence...Coaches, not players are the problem in Lionland and until that changes for the better, this will only continue with new names for the slaughter.
The Lions are are in REAL TROUBLE right now and if Glenn leaves, it only makes things worse...Lulay is done, John Beck isn't and never will be the answer as a starter...
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I agree completely with that scenario SP.South Pender wrote:I have to agree that going into 2015 without a really experienced quarterback like Glenn would be a mistake. I think we need him back--primarily, we hope, as the No. 2 guy. Believing that Beck, Partridge, or Rodgers will rise to a true No. 1 level by the beginning of 2015 would, in my opinion, be a huge mistake and would almost guarantee continued offensive failure. As I've said before, I don't think Beck will ever make it as a starter in the CFL, and Partridge and, particularly, Rodgers are too green to assume the mantle of starting QB. We need Glenn as a steadying influence--and a guy we can go to in emergencies--while a new starter is learning the CFL ropes. My preference would be for the team to make a real priority of bringing in several promising QB candidates for the 2015 TC (and if we could snag a guy with CFL playing experience that would be ideal) and then blend in the guy who looks best with Glenn backing him up and providing veteran help.MexicoLionFan wrote:BCFAN, not wanting to see Kevin Glenn again, is your frustration/anger blaming Glenn for this debacle...he didn't play well and I don't think he should be our starter, but to get rid of him IS NOT THE ANSWER. Getting rid of the OLine coach that didn't protect him, the OC that didn't support him or put him in a position to be successful, the HC that stood by and did nothing and the GM who ultimately created the entire mess by not making changes at the top...these are more deserving targets than Kevin Glenn...If Lulay's shoulder had lasted for 2 more games before it went, he would have looked just as awful...there was no way to succeed consistently in this mess...every time we had success offensively the next team would adjust to what we did and we were back to square one with no answers...answer #1 was throw to Manny non stop...when that was taken away we have NO ANSWERS until the plan became throw to EJ non stop, until that was taken away...Manny and EJ were GHOSTS after their brief runs...
Promoting John Beck to #1 puts the Lions BELOW OTT as everyone one in world now knows how to rip apart our defence...Coaches, not players are the problem in Lionland and until that changes for the better, this will only continue with new names for the slaughter.
The Lions are are in REAL TROUBLE right now and if Glenn leaves, it only makes things worse...Lulay is done, John Beck isn't and never will be the answer as a starter...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
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For those considering Tino Sunseri as a viable option for the future, may I say two words and a number:
Kerry Joseph, 41.
Kerry Joseph, 41.
What about this option:
Trade for Drew Tate?
He can't be content as a #2 in Calgary, not sure of the length of his current contract, but Huff must realize this.
In my mind, best option other than a healthy Lulay, which simply isn't bankable.
Lions need to offer fans something to get excited about.
All the previous options mentioned above do not make me want to renew season tickets.
I don't blame Glenn for all the wowes of 2014, but i have no interest in seeing him back in orange.
I think a trade like this would give the team a much needed buzz that they'll need, good for the league too, not enough QB depth league wide to have a guy like Tate as a backup.
Trade for Drew Tate?
He can't be content as a #2 in Calgary, not sure of the length of his current contract, but Huff must realize this.
In my mind, best option other than a healthy Lulay, which simply isn't bankable.
Lions need to offer fans something to get excited about.
All the previous options mentioned above do not make me want to renew season tickets.
I don't blame Glenn for all the wowes of 2014, but i have no interest in seeing him back in orange.
I think a trade like this would give the team a much needed buzz that they'll need, good for the league too, not enough QB depth league wide to have a guy like Tate as a backup.