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MexicoLionFan
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There is a little wiggle room as the season still has 2 weeks left in it and no decisions will be make publicly until then; however, it is crucial for the people on this wonderful website to understand that these next 2 weeks are perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT in Lion's history! This site isn't a collection of stiffs, or just moaners and groaners that *beeotch* about anything. The level of intellect and football insight is likely unparalleled in football land. Plus, the Lions organization is fully aware how many important season ticket holders are on this site and the power of the combined message from this site! If we get together, UNITE, on this issue that major changes must occur or else, then the Lions will listen. I guarantee it.

Right now the Lions are in a very difficult spot within the CFL because of Wally Buono. And I understand all that Wally has done for the CFL and this franchise...he came in at a time and gave this team exactly what it needed. It wasn't purrfect, far from it, but it was consistent and effective. However, Wally operates with certain beliefs about football...playing it, coaching it and managing it. Wally has come to see himself as an institution (and I don't blame him, anyone would likely have with this success and tenure) and he has RUTHLESSLY applied his beliefs about football year in and year out. It has meant some very, very harsh decisions/actions against legends, good players and even coaches. Wally believes that football is a business and to be successful every year you must keep the talent pool at the top...So if Alan Pitts, Geroy Simon or Jason Clermont think they can still play and dominate, and Wally believes they can't, he will show them the door. Cold? Maybe, but when you play in a league where the competition is constantly trying to overtake you, then you HAVE TO field the best possible team each season. Competitive sports does not allow for compassion and sympathy, only wins..."Just Win Baby!"

BUT, and this is a HUGE BUT, Wally has not been consistent with his cold, calculating approach. Over the past 8 years Wally has developed a "soft spot" for himself, his religion and those that he deems his family! Mike Benevides, Dan Dorazio, Chuck McMann AND Wally Buono have all been given a FREE PASS and this becomes a MASSIVE PROBLEM when every other aspect of your business approach is Cold and Calculated! It flies in the face of his decision making towards others. Korey Banks was unceremoniously cut loose after last season, a season which saw him play very well. Two years ago Geroy was traded for postage stamps. Our dominating DT, probably the most dominant DLineman in the league was traded to TOR for behaving like the child he was and making a mistake. Bold, Cold, Decisive moves by Buono which completely CONTRADICT how he handled himself and his inner circle! His inner circle are exempt from his cut-throat tactics because they are part of his religious family, following principles that are supposed to espouse acceptance, forgiveness and help...there were none for Khalif Mitchell. Mitchell needed a helping, loving hand and he would have changed...in fact, he did change and we lost his services for two precious seasons. Wally brought him back when his talents had dropped off...forgiveness to bring him back? Why not INSTANT forgiveness, why the 2 year kind? What makes players like Banks, Simon and Mitchell angry with Wally is the INCONSISTENCY of his ruthlessness! When you are not consistent, then you are just picking your spots...and that's exactly how Geroy and Korey saw Wally's decisions! Hey, why me? Why am I the guy being singled out when I am a star, I have been a legend for this team when you allow the likes of JR LaRose, Dean Valli, Marco Iannuzzi and Kito Poblah to start and ALLOW (like a favour) Chuck McMann and Dan Dorzaio to have jobs??? Why???

Thus the problem for the Lions around the league...players have now come to see Buono as not only Cold, but a guy who plays favourites and favours those who are openly Pro-God (JR LaRose and his rebirth to Christianity through Wally Buono!). Why did we sign so few FAs? Why did our first coaching choices turn us down? Because there is a widely held belief around the league that things aren't FAIR or EVEN in Wallyworld! Why did many coaches turn down the chance to become our OC last year? If a genius like JC can be thrown out of town with pitchforks, what about me? Going to Lions as we are structured right now is a guaranteed fail. Think about Khari Jones...just before he signed, a news article was released suggesting that there was "nothing wrong" with JC's playbook, it was more about the play selection. A couple of weeks after the Jones signing, there was an article with Jones saying that he didn't really have that much work to do, he was going to base his offence around JC's but focus more on a new, fresh approach to game planning and play selection. WOW!

Khari Jones inherited a guy's playbook (which because it was so good that EVERY OTHER DEFENCE IN THE LEAGUE built their systems around stopping it), was asked to operate from it, was forced to accept Dan Dorazio (and because JC was forced to accept Dorazio too, it meant all blocking schemes in this playbook were DORAZIO'S) as his OLine coach, was forced into accepting Dean Valli as his starting RG (coming off his 2nd knee surgery in 2 years at the end of his average playing days), wasn't given a healthy LT on the entire roster and practise squad, was lied to about Lulay's health and was given Kevin Glenn as his starting QB on draft day, just a month before camp! And people want to blame Khari Jones or Kevin Glenn for this mess???????????????

CAUSE AND EFFECT...that's how our physical world functions! For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction! Welcome to Wally's world! If Buono had just kept personal views and beliefs out of his business life, none of this would be a problem! Players like Banks and Simon would have nothing to say other than "it stings a little". But when you play favourites...when you fire your OC and DC who were both established, intelligent and successful football minds, and keep your inept HC, and incompetent OL and ST coaches then you have questions that need answering...all of this just BLEW UP IN WALLY'S FACE SUNDAY! Haven't you read Skulsky's and Braley's comments as of yet? They do NOT blame injuries, they do not excuse first year coaches...they put their focus on the LEADERSHIP of this football team and that's Wally because he hired Benevides, and participated in the process to fire JC and Stubler and replace them with 2 guys who weren't ready!!!!!!

With JC and Stubler under Bene we hosted the 2012 WF and lost...in 2013 we lost a heartbreaker in SSK and they went on to win the GC! With Jones and Washington we lost to an AVERAGE football team at best and got BLOWN OUT...how often can you say a 50-17 score flattered the losers???? After the game what did Bene say? "That's a hell of a football team we just played over there, one of the best we have seen, they have a hell of a chance to win the GC!" WTF???? You just got steam rolled by a team that had to win 8 of their last 10 to squeak into the playoffs, with a young QB who has proven nothing and only passed for 150 yards in a game where they could have HUNG 70 on us!!!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention their GM OVERHAULED his coaching staff and staring QB DURING THE SEASON so that MTL wouldn't have to WASTE a year!!! Now, talk about taking personal responsibility for your actions and making amends...talk about Cajones...WOW...Popp has 2 ten pound nuts...Scientists are now using laserscopes to find any existence of balls in Lion's land!

Why did we lose so many games at HOME this year??? Because we got killed in the 2nd half! Someone can look up and find out just how badly we were outscored AT HOME in the 2nd half of games...and it could have been worse if teams didn't build such big leads...So many people here were willing to give Washington a pass after our defensive collapse to end this season...WHY??? Teams could have hung 50 around our necks every week if they simply exposed our GLARING WEAKNESS! Our defensive success (and I started saying this back in week 6) was only SMOKE and MIRRORS. Washington must have been a roadie for Deep Purple, gathered up all of their dry ice and black strobe lights to create his playbook! Seriously, while so many were talking about Washington being a genius hire and the best DC we have had in a long time, I was on my tiny island saying, "maybe not"! What did Washington say after the MTL game? His system was EXPOSED for all of its weaknesses, from players, to schemes to coaches...as Joe said, he threw himself on the sword which is admirable in a strangely Japanese way, but does NOTHING to make up for Sunday!!! Khari Jone's remarks were very, very fitting...he had NO ANSWERS for what happened...the same as Washington and Benevides...None of them had any answers after the game Sunday...which was fitting because none of them had any answers during the season when we experienced problems, and that included Washington.

As a franchise we have a well earned reputation under Wally of not being big about all the X's and O's stuff...all those little details...we just show up, line up and play...and as such we have lost a lot of BIG GAMES on home turf! We have also greedily consumed player talent over the last 12 years unparalleled in CFL history. We have won with lining up staggering talent! We have also witnessed an unparalleled run of OUTSTANDING QBs in BC under Wally...the problem was that NONE of them played very long for us...because they were constantly in and out of the hospital...for the last 10 years (from 2004 on) CFL defences have ALL OUT blitzed us to try and stop our staggering offensive success. Its 2014 and we are as a fan base are STILL WAITING for an answer from the Lions organization! Now is that the fault of the Line coach? The OC? The HC? Or the GM for allowing this SLAUGHTER to happen to his most valued of players again, and again and again. We are now, fittingly, at the end of this 10 year period with only 2 GC's, a dwindling fan base and NO QBs going into next season.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you CAUSE and EFFECT! I also give you Einstein's definition of INSANITY! Welcome to your 2014/15 Wally Buono led BC Lions!

Regardless of whether you have a soft spot for Wally and don't want to see anyone get fired, or think that I am a raving lunatic...its time for us to come together and DEMAND A CHANGE with our beloved Lions before the damage has gone too far and its too late. We are now BEHIND every other team in the league (OTT included) in coaching and teaching. Our Talent daily is becoming similar to other franchises. Unless we clean house from Top to Bottom and hand the reigns of this storied franchise over to BRIGHT, INTELLIGENT FOOTBALL MINDS with cutting edge ideas on how to exploit the opposition's weaknesses, we will enter the DARK AGES of BC football once again. We can't attract FAs here...we won't attract top ASST Coaches here under Wally and Bene...we will have to trust on a scouting dept. that is as good as everyone else's and our coaches to teach CDN draft picks, and that hasn't been happening!

So PLEASE, let's just all put our combined efforts together here and demand an overhaul from the Lions...Wallyball no longer works in the new CFL with the likes of Hufnagel, Jones, Chambliss, Austin, Milanovich, O'Shea and even Rich Campbell...and those new MTL assistants are SMART! Wally has passed over on EVERY ONE of these guys to keep himself as coach and then promote his adopted hamster! We must, as a franchise, go out and implement an exhaustive search for the brightest coaching minds in football...someone young who needs to put a championship on their resume before taking on the NFL!
Last edited by MexicoLionFan on Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

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MexicoLionFan
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Dear BC Lions Football Team, my name is MLF, I vote for a NEW Coaching Staff next season! Thank you!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
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DanoT
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I am voting as well...with my wallet. Unless there is a new HC and several new assistants especially at O line, OC, and STC, then I won't be buying my usual 3-Pak.

If it is "Give Benny A Chance" for 2015, then I still might attend a game by buying a walk up ticket, but only if there was a HUGE turn around in the Lions playing performance. This is something that is highly unlikely if there is even a semblance of the status quo going forward. :bang:
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prj
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Well said. MLF.

Got my vote!
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WestCoastJoe
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I support MLF's passion for our team and his football knowledge. What we have with the Lions is a near shambles, despite our 9-9 record, which might disguise some of the decay.

What has caught the Lions by surprise, although not necessarily a surprise to some fans, is the evolution of the CFL. Sharp coaches everywhere. Xs and Os mastery all over the place. Coaches with the highest level credentials moving in. And we look like naïve tourists in New York, being taken for a ride by tricky cab drivers. Pockets picked. Mugged.

Too tough? Well ... That is how it looks to this long time fan.

Can Wally re-invent himself as an innovative, state of the art football mind? I doubt that he feels he needs to. And many fans will support that notion. Xs and Os trickery? Nah ... Just pound the rock. Out execute the opponent. Be men. Church group? Dunno.

The one time Wally hired a Head Coach, he chose a protege with astonishingly thin credentials. It might have worked twenty years ago.

I expect Wally's inclination in this mess, is to tinker. Fire a couple of assistants. Change some players. If he gets real, serious heat from above, he might think of reinstating himself as Head Coach. Dunno if that will stop our slide.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

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SammyGreene
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Fantastic post MLF and really gets to the heart of the Lions' demise in recent years.

I'm no fan of how Dennis Skulsky wants to be on the sidelines every game but I think by his words and letter yesterday has a much better grasp at how dysfunctional the football operations are right now than Wally does. He was even complaining about the product and entertainment value prior to the guarantee win game against the Riders.

There is no way our last president would have let this play out the way it has and hope the current one makes it clear there needs to be some dramatic changes going forward even though he doesn't have the same football background.
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cromartie
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I'm with you, sort of. I do think Wally has the capacity to grow, evolve and change, with the exception of one major area.

That area, as I've stated repeatedly, is the outdated football mindset that "we go out there and play our game, win or lose." That isn't realistic in any line of business anymore, and football is no exception. Sometimes, the playing field is tilted so drastically that you can get away with it, but for the most part, it isn't. Flexibility is an imperative, and if you don't have it, those who can adjust on the fly are going to pass you by.

I'm not out of faith in Wally. But I am out of faith with this coaching staff, stem to stern.

I suspect that if you don't create change, a great many people will vote with their wallets.
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MexicoLionFan
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Thanks guys, I agree with Joe that Wally's way is to tinker, but tinkering won't work...we must have a coaching staff in place that can match and out match Hufnagel, Jones and Austin...Bene wasn't that guy even with Chaps and Stubler.

Did you hear Chamblis Sunday after their loss to the Esks...he knew they were ready (and they were), with a 40 year old QB in Joseph with only a few starts under his belt in their system, in EDM, they made a great game of it...Chamblis knew they were so well prepared that they would win...so he was very disappointed after the loss, but he gave the credit to Jones for KNOWING THEIR WEAKNESS, without Durant they couldn't throw, so Jones BLITZED all game to stop the SSK running game...it worked and EDM won! That's great coaching on both sides...what the fans of the Lions need to recognize is that if the Benny led Lions had played EITHER team on Sunday instead of MTL we would have lost EVEN WORSE!

That's how good this league is when push comes to shove. Our 9-9 record this season did NOT reflect this team, it flattered us...as Blitz, Joe, Dano, David, TLK and others noticed is that many teams played us VANILLA! Can you imagine that? They respected our offence so little that they just lined up in Vanilla formations and blitzed when they needed to...that just doesn't happen anymore in Pro Football, except with us! How many different game plans did any of you notice this season, offence or defence????? If you can remember any, let me know...I think Washington mixed things up versus WPG one game and we had 10 sacks, I think it was WPG? But other than that, nothing...offensively Jones slowly added in Jumbo formations but only after we all screamed murder for over a month! Even then, he barely used these sets in meaningful situations, preferring to put 6 receivers out on 2nd and long and let Glenn get clocked...again and again!

Remember, Kevin Glenn finished SECOND in the CFL this season to Ricky Ray in passing yards! He completed a lot of passes for big plays by moving his legs in the pocket to buy time and find wide open receivers down field...he did a lot of good things this season, he faded because his punishment got worse not better...and once teams figured out how to remove Manny and EJ from his sightline, the game was OVER! And remember that, teams sold out to take away Manny and EJ and we couldn't find anyone else open...HOW????????????????????

Joe is not kidding when he talks about the coaching prowess in the league...the guys that are coaching in the CFL are damn good...Mike O'Shea got that bunch of very average talent to win 5 in a row at the start of the season WITH NO HISTORY OF WINNING in recent years...don't kid yourselves...if O'Shea gets some talent, watch out for WPG! And come Sunday, if Reilly is 100% watch EDM walk into McMahon and beat CGY! And if Kent Austin can get consistency from his QB position, watch out for HAM...and SSK and Chamblis are going to retool for next year...tough, tough, tough!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

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Sir Purrcival
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Excellent post MLF. I think you nailed it. Especially in regards to the uneven treatment of some over others. There were rumours about Vic Rapp regarding the same issues. Players attending Rapp's church to help their prospects on the team and so on. Again I hearken back to Bobby Ackles and what his loss meant to this franchise. If there was one person who could keep Wally's less beneficial tendencies in check, it was him. Probably the only one in the franchise with a stature and background as powerful as Wally. I know that was six year ago but if you look at the good ship BC Lions since that time, it has sailed anything but a straight course. If not for the one miracle season of 2011, it would be looking pretty dismal overall. Much how Stampeders fans feel about their teams results. Even the mighty Huffnagel is talked about in his inability to take this teams regular season success into and win the big prize. Some of of Wally's decisions haven't been all bad. You mention Korey Banks for example and cut as he was, he couldn't keep a job on a new team. Paris Jackson I think we should have kept but he couldn't make it on an expansion franchise and it wasn't until Edmonton needed a ratio problem resolved that he resurfaced. Baron Simpson,Jason Clermont, even Geroy all had some illusions about more career but more often than not, players who Wally cut, got maybe another year somewhere and in most cases didn't tear up the league or even make an appreciable impact. Why Wally has seemed so obtuse about the coaching staff as opposed to his players is hard to fathom other than in the context you suggest of playing favourites. He either needs to take the blinders off and start applying the same conditions to the coaching staff or it is he who must go. I am loathe to say that as I don't know that many have a much to bring as him but revolutions often start when good people let some of their natural tendencies to get in the way. Wally is like a politician. Savvy, knowledgeable and tough. However after too many terms, even the best can begin to believe in their own infallibility.

So, Wally, if you read this stuff at all. Add my name to the list that says start doing it one way across the board. Apply the same rules to all the members of staff and if the need is there cut those loose who need to be cut loose. We as fans aren't interested in spending our $$$ on a product that being hampered because you can't fire a member of your "family".
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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MexicoLionFan
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Percy, thanks...and I agree with you, Wally's knack for knowing when to let go of aging stars, in particular, has been brilliant..it takes a lot confidence and cajones to make moves like you mentioned...but as you said, if you adopt that style, it MUST APPLY TO EVERYONE! Benevides tenure was helped by the team he inherited in 2012 with the Asst's he had...we should have won another Cup that year...but we didn't and since that time, it has been on MB's shoulders and we have become an undisciplined shambles that eats way too much ice cream and doesn't drink enough Champagne!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

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Big Time
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Good discussion in this thread.

My take: I don't buy the God Squad stuff. I just don't. Everyone knows Wally is religious, but a man who has been as cold and calculating in his personnel moves doesn't get that rep by keeping the men of faith around. Wally has been consistent in his expectations that players must have good values on and off the field, but I don't buy for a second that a man's religion plays any role in his final call.

Second, I'm going to guess that Wally sees things exactly the same way we do. He has a process that involves a review of all the coaches that he goes through at the end of the year. The benefit of experience is that you are less prone to knee jerk reactions. He will go through the process and he will make his decision once he has the information he needs.

Third, as Sir Purrcival said, Wally's track record of knowing when a player has reached his expiry date has been pretty bang on. You want Geroy as a decoy receiver but pay him like a star? No thanks. Have fun in Saskatchewan. Clermont, Banks, Simpson. Which of these was he wrong about? His bigger problem has been evaluating the value of players in their prime. That's a far more serious problem than about a bunch of over priced veterans. Dante Marsh is going to find this out in the off season too.

Finally, my expectation is that once the end of year evaluations play out, you can expect that Benevides will be fired. As was said earlier, Wally is as much a politician as a football guy. He will understand that he won't be able to sell change if the same coaching staff comes back. What I witnessed from MB on the sidelines this year was incompetent and bordered on unprofessional. His team was consistently unprepared, unable to make adjustments, and MB's lack of discipline on the sidelines spread to a lack of discipline on the field. If you can't model the behaviour you want to see, you're not going to find it in the ones you're supposed to lead.

Emotions are high right now but I believe that Wally has what it takes to right this ship, and will make the necessary moves to get the Lions back on track.
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MexicoLionFan
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Good post Big Time...we will see what happens with the Wally-saga...suddenly there is pressure on his job as well...I too think it will spark him to make major changes, and he might just feel its time to move himself upstairs...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
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Sir Purrcival
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I hope you are both right. There are few in the business with as much foot ball acumen as Wally Buono. But let's be honest too, Wally is a rookie GM by some standards. He hasn't ever hired or fired a head coach as far as I know. But he is a survivor and I hope like both Big Time and MLF suggest that he is wise enough to know when it is time to make a change despite being on somewhat newer ground for him.
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pdxlion
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Guys, If it were all only so easy. I'll support these guys no matter what happens. Although I do suspect we may see some un Wally-like moves when it comes to loyalty hirings/firings.
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pennw
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Sorry MLF but you lost me when you launched into your anti-religion diatribe . Couldn't be bothered to read any further after that as I consider it a complete waste of time . You have zero evidence to support your accusations on that front , only your own prejudice . There are other faiths among the BC Lions that are not in line with Wally Bouno's and those have seen no discrimination based on religion . I don't support you at all . :tp:
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