Post Mortem on the Season, Als 50 - Leos 17

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TheLionKing
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MexicoLionFan wrote:
Blue In BC wrote:Glenn has always seemed to play really badly in the playoffs. His record is abysmal it important games. I can't seem him being a Lion in 2015. Whether there are any takers for his services even as a free agent, I'm not sure. There are always comments about him being the best backup insurance QB, but is it really true when you barely squeak into the crossover game before tanking.

I've never been a big fan of the crossover concept. I'm wondering if now that we have Ottawa back in the league whether we should eliminate it in 2015.
Glenn looked pretty good torching Benevides Lions, in Vancouver, in the 2012 WF!

I have never thought of Glenn as a HOF QB, but he's certainly serviceable...he failed this season and collapsed in the Eastern Semi Final because he lost his confidence early in the season and couldn't get it back...he took a beating this season and honestly, how he made it to this game was remarkable! Glenn is like ANY OTHER QB, he needs some help...he didn't get much of any...why did he over throw so many receivers yesterday? Mechanics...and Kevin Glenn has superb QBing mechanics...he was afraid to throw off his front foot and follow through because he couldn't trust his OLine to protect him...Glenn got into the habit by week 6 of throwing off his back foot where the ball will sail on you creating INTs...Kevin Glenn was a bi-product of our horrendous offensive system! Travis Lulay would not have fared much or any better!
Beating Benevides Lions is not a big deal given his post season coaching record.

As to Kevin Glenn, as I stated in the game day thread he has very nervous feet standing in the pocket. He's been pounded so often this year due to the porous offensive line that he's lacking confidence dropping back to pass.
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Toppy Vann
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Wally is right to be concerned about the whole team from Skulsky down. They won't all be shown the door but what a stain on his legacy that his decision to hire junior Wally is about to become if he gets dumped on big time. There is no way Wally is fired but he is very likely forced to fire Benevides and find a new HC - something is not exactly Wally's forte as he has only ever hired ONE.

I'm not sure who is out there but as much as MLF knows football I'd not be on the Richie Hall bandwagon as fast as him as HC is less about the astute x and 0 type and more about setting the tone for performance and accountability and making sure you hire top Coordinators to set in place what your philosophy of play and culture is all about.

Wally had one thing going for him that Joe PaoPao never had as a HC - that edge that players know means perform or else. He certainly is not a players coach like say MB sounds to be to some - other than calling out Phillips and Marsh for the wrong reasons and look at how that led to a collective let down in the final month. Not saying they quit but teams collectively are on fire or at the other extreme flat.
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TheLionKing
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Keeping Benevides for another go around is going to be a hard sell to the fans just like Chapdelaine was last season.
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WestCoastJoe
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Some bigger picture questions as we look over the wreckage of our season ...

Can Hufnagel and Dickenson develop and work with quarterbacks? Yes. Can we?

Can Montreal develop National O Linemen, and get low maintenance, high performance out of its O Line? Yes. Can we?

Do we have the kind of Xs and Os mastery from our top guys (GM and HC), to develop young DCs and OCs? Ummm ... Gotta say, No.

Did we blow it, letting Mike Reilly leave (especially in view of Lulay's injury history)? Was there a way to keep Reilly? I expect there was. Would our franchise be stronger now if we somehow managed to keep Reilly? Nah ... He would have been pounded into the turf.

I think Wally said he would be willing to come back as HC, if that is what it took to right the franchise. Would that be a good thing? Or has time passed Wally by as a Head Coach?
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Rammer
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Some bigger picture questions as we look over the wreckage of our season ...

Can Hufnagel and Dickenson develop and work with quarterbacks? Yes. Can we?

Can Montreal develop National O Linemen, and get low maintenance, high performance out of its O Line? Yes. Can we?

Do we have the kind of Xs and Os mastery from our top guys (GM and HC), to develop young DCs and OCs? Ummm ... Gotta say, No.

Did we blow it, letting Mike Reilly leave (especially in view of Lulay's injury history)? Was there a way to keep Reilly? I expect there was. Would our franchise be stronger now if we somehow managed to keep Reilly? Nah ... He would have been pounded into the turf.

I think Wally said he would be willing to come back as HC, if that is what it took to right the franchise. Would that be a good thing? Or has time passed Wally by as a Head Coach?
Wally would be a good choice for HC, just that Wally the HC better find an OC that he allows to run the offense his way, not give interference. It is that latter part that would be difficult for HC Wally to deal with and of course he has the support of GM Wally, so why would any OC worth his weight want to enter that equation.
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Lions4ever
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MexicoLionFan wrote:At this point Kevin is a CFL backup...if he will take backup money to stay here, the Lions would be foolish to get rid of him...
There is absolutely no way you can sell the Lions to the buying public next season with Glenn on the roster even as a backup/insurance. No way. He has to be one and done here.
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hwgill
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I've been out of town since Oct, just got home yesterday. I have only one question...why didn't Beck play? I thought he was behind Glenn...
" ... a team not being prepared to play is the head coach’s responsibility.” - Jim Barker
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sj-roc
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hwgill wrote:I've been out of town since Oct, just got home yesterday. I have only one question...why didn't Beck play? I thought he was behind Glenn...
concussion
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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cromartie
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Some bigger picture questions as we look over the wreckage of our season ...

Did we blow it, letting Mike Reilly leave (especially in view of Lulay's injury history)? Was there a way to keep Reilly? I expect there was. Would our franchise be stronger now if we somehow managed to keep Reilly? Nah ... He would have been pounded into the turf.
:ref: Hindsight foul. That's two in two days from you.

There was zero chance someone wasn't going to throw more money at Reilly than we had available against the cap to keep him. Even then, it would have meant him staying as a backup. It wasn't happening.

And would he would have taken anymore turfings than he did in Edmonton last year?
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WestCoastJoe
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cromartie wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Some bigger picture questions as we look over the wreckage of our season ...

Did we blow it, letting Mike Reilly leave (especially in view of Lulay's injury history)? Was there a way to keep Reilly? I expect there was. Would our franchise be stronger now if we somehow managed to keep Reilly? Nah ... He would have been pounded into the turf.
:ref: Hindsight foul. That's two in two days from you.

There was zero chance someone wasn't going to throw more money at Reilly than we had available against the cap to keep him. Even then, it would have meant him staying as a backup. It wasn't happening.

And would he would have taken anymore turfings than he did in Edmonton last year?
LOL

Nonsense. Can't talk about past decisions, or non decisions? In a managment seminar?

The staff knew Lulay's health status. They played it "safe," staying with Lulay. Some executives would have moved Heaven and earth to keep Reilly. Did I suggest this would have changed our prospects this year? No. I am looking at the management, and the decision making, and the glacial pace of adaptation of this regime. At this point, for me, inspecting the cadaver is more important than healing the wounds of the losses.

Even this year, this was Lulay's team (Glenn said so). It can't be that way. Am I knocking Lulay? No. I am looking at the mindset that is afraid of change, that cannot adapt to developments.

It seems to me that Lulay took us to the title in 2011. Without his leadership on the field, we have drifted. Absence of leadership above Lulay? Yes. Big time. Scared to make a very, very tough decison to offer big bucks to Reilly? Yes.

IMO ... Not definitive. Not gonna beat it to death.

Cry "Hindsight" on me? OK ... Sure ... I looked back at a wobbly management decision, facing a crisis. Some, as with David, spoke out at the time. My loyalty to Lulay kept me quiet, but I had misgivings about letting Reilly go. And who of us fans knew Lulay's health status?

Aside from considering the management side of the Reilly situation, he is over there. Not ours. Gone. No regrets. Wish him well. Were we indecisive? I believe so. Reilly probably would not have prevented the backsliding we have seen. He might even have regressed as a quarterback, as has happened with Glenn. And might have happened with a healthy Lulay.

The biggest difference in Edmonton between 2013 and 2014 is Chris Jones, not Mike Reilly.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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David
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Live or die by the blitz. That has never been Wally's approach. Nor Benny's in his brief time at DC. Nor Mark Washington's in his brief time at DC.
Does it surprise you WCJ about the latter if it was the approach of the former? Glen Suitor was quite revealing yesterday about Wally's micro-management
in his TSN1040 interview. Said Bene does not have the authority to make roster decisions. His boss is involved in the decision making.


DH :cool:
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WestCoastJoe
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David wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Live or die by the blitz. That has never been Wally's approach. Nor Benny's in his brief time at DC. Nor Mark Washington's in his brief time at DC.
Does it surprise you WCJ about the latter if it was the approach of the former? Glen Suitor was quite revealing yesterday about Wally's micro-management
in his TSN1040 interview. Said Bene does not have the authority to make roster decisions. His boss is involved in the decision making.


DH :cool:
I wish I had heard Suitor, David. I find him to be candid, while remaining respectful.

Yes, it seems that Wally on the Rooftop, Wally on the Tower, casts a huge shadow. What self respecting, experienced, Head Coach or veteran OC, or in-demand DC, would tolerate that heavy oversight?

So, no LaPo. No Cortez. And not saying those guys were any kind of answer.

Benny took the job title, the status and the pay. Wally never really let go of the job.

Just considering that last line, if Wally cannot hire a truly qualified Head Coach, due to his aversion to giving up control, then I expect Wally is hoping that things fall in such a way, that he can reinstate himself as Head Coach. Hallelujah, we've been saved. Or have we?
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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notahomer
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Of the two I preferred Buono's clips over Benevides on the sportscasts.....

I realize taking short clips out of a presser does not tell the whole story. Both of them laid a lot of the blame (on the clips I saw) at the feet of the players "execution, its the players inside the white lines". Buono summed it up best for me though when he stated 'none of us maybe back, including me'. IOW, he is making it clear the buck stops with him, unless someone higher up says "SEEYA". Will be an interesting off-season, for sure.........
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WestCoastJoe
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From Ed Willes ...
Willes' Musings: A few good men deserve another chance with the Leos

Lions GM Buono not likely going anywhere and head coach Benevides has a close relationship with him

BY ED WILLES, THE PROVINCE NOVEMBER 17, 2014
Agreed. Buono ain't going anywhere.
— The mob wants blood, and given the way the B.C. Lions season ended on Sunday, someone will have to pay with their job.

But if anyone thinks this means a regime change in the Lions den, they simply don’t understand the way the organization works under David Braley.

Braley might have his faults but a lack of loyalty isn’t one of them. When he assesses the Lions, he won’t look at the 2014 season when just about everything that could go wrong did. He’ll look at the last decade-plus under Wally Buono and conclude this season was a one-off.

Buono will be back. The next question revolves around head coach Mike Benevides, and that might be a little more complicated.

Buono didn’t say unequivocally that Benevides would return for 2015 but the coach is the GM’s hand-picked successor and he went 13-5 and 11-7 before things went south this year.

The injuries to Travis Lulay, Andrew Harris, Courtney Taylor and others don’t give Benevides a free pass. But it buys him at least until the start of next year to prove he can turn things around.

The other dynamic in play, of course, is the relationship between the two men. Benevides said on Monday there’s no confusion between where the GM’s job ends and the coach’s job begins. Others aren’t as sure because there’s a perception that Buono’s presence suppresses both Benevides’ voice and his authority.

When Buono was asked about that on Monday, he said: “If I cast a big shadow it’s not my fault. My whole intent is to give this team the support it needs.”

And: “The toughest road to follow is someone who’s had success.”

OK.

Whatever it is, this situation has to be clarified with Benevides or the new man. As things stand, what established coach would sign with the Lions knowing he has Buono looking over his shoulder?

One other factor to keep in mind: The contracts of Buono, Benevides and team president Dennis Skulsky all expire at the end of the 2016 season. It’s just another reason there likely won’t be seismic changes this off-season.
"As things stand, what established coach would sign with the Lions knowing he has Buono looking over his shoulder?"

Yep. Wally on the Rooftop. Wally on the Tower.
— Speaking of which, there’s only one coaching candidate who makes sense if they’re looking to shake things up: Stampeders offensive co-ordinator Dave Dickenson. Dickenson is a game-changer. Dickenson is someone you break out of your comfort zone to hire.

Bit it remains to be seen, a) if he’d leave Calgary for Vancouver, b) if he’d work for Buono, and c) how much he’d cost, but there’s only one way to find out.
I am not convinced that Dickenson would turn down HC of the Lions to stay in Calgary.
.............

So Willes thinks Benevides will be back.

I can see that. Wally and Benny will put on the humility. Lay low for a while. When they re-appear they will talk of change. Significant change. LOL

Change some players. Change some assistant coaches. Talk about considering some new schemes.

That is just tinkering. And it is status quo.

I am getting the feeling that we will see "same old, same old."

The Lions are Wally's organization to run. And he makes changes at a glacial pace.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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From Lowell Ullrich ...
Ullrich: Buono will be back — and the Lions GM is ready to ‘burn the ship’ again

A few days after the 2013 season ended for the B.C. Lions came a stark appraisal by general manager Wally Buono that unwittingly became reality when he summed up what he was about to do to fix the CFL team in one short sentence.

“Burn the ship,” he said. It was his way of saying personnel and coaching changes were needed. As the 2014 season ended, Buono figuratively stood in the middle of an inferno after the East Division semifinal loss Sunday.

The damage is substantial, and when he discussed the year Monday even Buono thought his job was not safe. That thought didn’t last long. President Dennis Skulsky said Tuesday that Buono will remain, but it is also clear some of his top lieutenants may not be so fortunate.
Skulsky said owner David Braley has agreed the contracts of any coach with a 2015 agreement will be bought out if Buono recommends the move. That is not a potentially promising development for offensive coordinator Khari Jones, who has one year left on his contract, or coach Mike Benevides, who was given a two-year extension through the 2016 season by Buono earlier this season.

“David has never put money in the way of making the right decision,” Skulsky said. “If that’s what is in the best interest of us moving forward, then he’ll support it.”
And while he stopped well short of suggesting that Benevides would not return, it was also clear from Skulsky’s sideline perch at games that his team was undisciplined on the field, and will result in changes.

“We’ve come to that realization,” he said. “I thought we were going to win the semifinal and win in Hamilton but … it was wishful thinking. Any logical person would look and say you can’t turn it on and off.

“The whole penalty issue, and the type of penalties, that tells you something When there’s signs like that and you’re not up for every game and we were very inconsistent, that should tell you something about the players as individuals and as a team.” B.C. finished in the middle of the pack in penalties but in Montreal the Lions more yardage from flags (105) as they gained from passing (102).
One could take those words as criticism of Mike Benevides. Does that mean Benny will not return? Absolutely not. Some coaches will be gone, however. Top candidate: Khari Jones.
As they packed their belongings following a 12-minute meeting, some players admitted there was not a universal belief that the roster decisions were always made by Benevides this year but by Buono.

“Some of the older guys were kind of getting burned out by some of the things that were taking place,” veteran Ryan Phillips said. “You can get a sense which moves are being made by whom.”
That is not good. It is a bit shocking. The Head Coach has to run the team.
Others said the Lions were nowhere near the cohesiveness as the four teams still in position to get to the Grey Cup game at B.C. Place Stadium.

“We were missing a lot of things this season,” one player said, choosing his words carefully. “That was one of them.” Another said Benevides had lost the confidence of the locker-room at one point.
Well there it is. Someone talking about Benny losing the room.
Buono defended his position, pointing out instances where he internally opposed player decisions by Benevides that he supported for public consumption, making it clear he isn’t about to change his approach.

“I can’t vanish,” said Buono.
I disagree. As GM, Wally does have to disappear from practices, from player decisions, from many, many things that are the province of the Head Coach.
It’s not certain yet whether the Lions will want to elevate running backs coach Kelly Bates over longtime offensive line assistant Dan Dorazio, for example. It’s also unclear whether special teams coach Chuck McMann, part of the coaching group who came with Buono in 2003 from Calgary, would like to continue.
Twelve years of the O Line regime. Good, young coach waiting in the wings. I will believe it when I see it.
“That’s when you find out what people are made of from the management and ownership.” And the Lions are prepared again to continue with the general manager who was in charge of burning the ship.
Burning the ship? Hmmmm ... Last year, two very, very capable coaches were thrown overboard at the end of the year. It took the spotlight off Mike Benevides.

I actually expect a similar scenario this off season. Sacrifice some underlings.

Slogan for 2015: More of the Same
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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