Stampeders 33 - Lions 16 Post Mortem

[Hambone]

Yeah you're right. Had Parks turned his head it probably doesn't get called. My complaint was the lack of contact, though if they got him on screening the WR then I suppose there could be a case made. Either way, like you state, I don't think it's that cut and dry. And at that point of the game it was the difference between 3 points, and Calgary getting the ball on the 1 yard line.

The other aspect perhaps that played a part in the decision to challenge was the delayed reaction of the zebra who tossed the hanky. It took a good 3 or 4 seconds after the play was over before he decided to throw the flag.

[The_Pauser]

"Lionhaters" is an over the top criticism in itself, making your point rather moot. What you fail to understand is that this board represents the passion of a varying range of Lion fans, perhaps you are at one end of that spectrum. The coaches don't get a free pass this year, it is year three with the main components still in place, while the team continues to head in the wrong direction. This board tells it like it is, from a fans perspective with a good grasp on all aspects of the team. Yes after losing games in the fashion the Lions have this season, you are going to see the coaches get called out on it. If they wren't, what kind of fans would we be? One only needs to look at the overall talent to see that this team is vastly underachieving. Once the Lions understand that fans are going to pull their investment, they seem to react. Too bad that it takes the Lions that long to make the moves that is turning the fans off from the team.

I don't necessarily disagree with calling out the coaching staff, and I do personally feel that a change is needed (especially at OC) but I have noticed over the years that anytime the team is losing people are eager to blame the coaching. It's almost as if the only problem this team has had for a decade is coaching, and it's seldom on the players.

[TheLionKing]

May be unfair but if your team is not winning it's easier to fire the coach than the players.

[notahomer]

http://www.thesnap.ca/bc-lions-cheerlea ... ring-game/

Hey one guy went home really happy after the Stamps game Apparently proposed and got engaged to a Felion.......

[Dusty]

Hi all, I'll add my 2 bits worth. I'm a seasons ticket holder and go to all the games and watch the away games on TV. I guess you could call me a Lions fan. I listened to the Moj post game show on Friday and have to agree with the frustration of the fans. Moj and Burnsy might be correct from a football sense, i.e. Benny is not the problem but injuries were but from a paying customer, I don't feel I'm getting my monies worth.

Having said all that, I'm routing for the Lions till the fat lady sings.

Go Lions Go.

I'm going to jump on jwbavalon's post here. I'm a BC Lions fan since I was a kid going to the games at Empire. I've been a seasons ticket holder for over 25 consecutive years now and I will continue to be a BC Lions fan until I stop from "want of breath" and a season ticket holder until I can't afford them on my pension. Yes, I've been frustrated with the Lions play over the years and perhaps never mores than over the past season. There were a lot of things that frustrated me last game, (and many have been commented on already), but one that is worth mentioning is the nonchalance of the Offence when they saunter onto the field and wander up to the line. There is no "snap" or passion or drive and guess what, the opposition dominates instead of being dominated by our offence. That to me is a lack of leadership from the QB, and lack of direction from the OC and HC. And it has been getting worse over the year. Maybe the coaches and the players have been trying different things, but other than maybe trying to trick the opposition falling asleep, I have not seen any differences in the attitude on the field (Hardrick being an exception for part of the game) nor the play calling. The Toronto game should have woken the OC up. The amount of play deception (fake hand-offs etc) was startling and we could/did not adjust. Teams do not have to adjust to our schemes because we do not seem to "scheme". We have no deception in our plays and the defence does not have that split second delay that gets our players past them.

I also listened to the "apologists" on the post game show and was very surprised by their defensiveness. The concerns were well stated and to be told that the caller knows nothing about the game was disappointing. The callers know what they are seeing and it is not pretty.

But when it comes down to it, next game I will be cheering on the BC Lions, because they are my team...... As jwbavalon said, Go Lions Go!

[Toppy Vann]

The Moj and Burns weren't starting out to defend but it became a crescendo of coach and slamming to the point that the callers weren't at all balanced and that put those guys a bit on the defensive and at one point cut a call off.

They agreed with the more moderate critiques but it got worse as the show went on. Balance was no longer in calls at all.... Moj and Burns noted how Burns felt not to be given a fair shake by Wally years back as having no reason to defend other than their views you can't fire everyone.

Also their rationale on the QB situation is right. If Glenn is the playoff QB sitting him this game was not on. If Beck is to be the QB then he should be playing more. It is not like the Lions were lighting it up and they could rest the QB or given him some reps and play like the Stamps did.

In defense of these guys they have to work with the Lions - Guillio was more defensive of the coaches but he left after his post game segment and Farhan keeps things in perspective. But as WCJ can attest it can get very frosty for the media out at Surrey when they are too critical of the Lions.

[sj-roc]

Yeah you're right. Had Parks turned his head it probably doesn't get called. My complaint was the lack of contact, though if they got him on screening the WR then I suppose there could be a case made. Either way, like you state, I don't think it's that cut and dry. And at that point of the game it was the difference between 3 points, and Calgary getting the ball on the 1 yard line.

The other aspect perhaps that played a part in the decision to challenge was the delayed reaction of the zebra who tossed the hanky. It took a good 3 or 4 seconds after the play was over before he decided to throw the flag.

Indeed. I saw that penalty coming all the way down Robson but then I was like, "Wow, lucky he didn't get fla—. Oh. Huh. Yeah, that's what I thought." You can't just screen a guy like that without looking back for the ball. Clearly a wasted challenge although everything else that went wrong masked the folly of it. It could have cost us in a closer game.

[TheLionKing]

Benevides was waving the yellow flag at the officials trying to draw their attention prior to finally throwing it onto the field.

[David]

Farhan Lalji is "must listen" radio if you support the BC Lions, and if you ever get the chance to hear him speak - do so! He articulately spells out all the ills of the club (and gives praise when it's due). He is tough, fair, and deadly accurate. And he was persona non grata with Bene several weeks ago for having the temerity during the post-game (TSN1040) to say the Lions' defense was "good" but not "great." Of course that went over like a turd in a punch bowl with the HC, and even Moj disagreed. "A great defense doesn't give up as many big plays," he said at the time. Bene was all pissy and sulky after the Ottawa game because he thought Farhan and the media were being unfair to his team (inwardly puffing out his chest after the big win). Guess who was bang-on the mark?

BTW, I really like Burnsie too. He's another one who dishes out tough love. But I respect him because he's fair.



DH

[cromartie]

I don't necessarily disagree with calling out the coaching staff, and I do personally feel that a change is needed (especially at OC) but I have noticed over the years that anytime the team is losing people are eager to blame the coaching. It's almost as if the only problem this team has had for a decade is coaching, and it's seldom on the players.

Were you even alive and listening to the radio during the Adam Rita years when everything, and I mean everything, was Damon Allen's fault?

That said, if there is a consistent coaching problem through the last decade with the coaching, it's, well, it's two problems, actually:

1) Offensive line coaching has been consistently poor and
2) Multiple coordinators do not adjust in game well, if at all.

The reasons for that are well stated and have been by people with more time and tape study than I.

As for the post game show, frankly, most of the callers stink, and it would be better off without them. Hamilton's post game show is excellent and it is essentially completely caller free. At the least, they'd be better off going without the callers until the guests are out of the way. It's the least appealing part of the program.

[WestCoastJoe]

Farhan Lalji is "must listen" radio if you support the BC Lions, and if you ever get the chance to hear him speak - do so! He articulately spells out all the ills of the club (and gives praise when it's due). He is tough, fair, and deadly accurate. And he was persona non grata with Bene several weeks ago for having the temerity during the post-game (TSN1040) to say the Lions' defense was "good" but not "great." Of course that went over like a turd in a punch bowl with the HC, and even Moj disagreed. "A great defense doesn't give up as many big plays," he said at the time. Bene was all pissy and sulky after the Ottawa game because he thought Farhan and the media were being unfair to his team (inwardly puffing out his chest after the big win). Guess who was bang-on the mark?

BTW, I really like Burnsie too. He's another one who dishes out tough love. But I respect him because he's fair.

DH

Farhan is very sharp as a reporter/media person. Excellent coach also. By the way, it was as a high school coach in the Pacific northwest that Don Matthews got his coaching start.

Mentioning Matthews ...

Early career[edit]

Matthews was a graduate assistant for the Vandals in Moscow for the 1964 season under Andros and freshman coach Bud Riley.[6] Matthews then coached high school football in Ely, Nevada for four years and won a state title. He relocated to Spokane, Washington in 1969 as head coach at Ferris, where he led the Saxons to the city title in his second and final year.[7] Matthews became a collegiate assistant coach back at his alma mater in 1971 as offensive line coach (later as offensive coordinator), under second-year head coach Don Robbins.[4] After an 0-2 start, the Vandals finished at 8-3 in 1971, which included an eight-game winning streak, and won the Big Sky title. At the time it was the best record in school history, and three seniors were selected in the 1972 NFL Draft. Two years later, Robbins was fired following the 1973 season and Matthews moved to the Portland area. He took over a winless program at Sunset High School in Beaverton, Oregon, and won consecutive state championships in 1975 and 1976, going undefeated in his third and final year.[1] He left Sunset after the 1976 season to become a CFL assistant coach in Edmonton, Alberta. -- Wikipedia

Before he even hit the professional ranks as an assistant, Matthews already had extensive experience.

There are guys out there. One route to find a gem, it seems to me, is to look for up and comers. With proven ability in many situations, sometimes at many different coaching positions.

You might have to search far and wide. You should definitely demand the highest credentials.

[MexicoLionFan]

How can anyone attribute the criticism to Benny and the coaches as ANYTHING BUT FAIR...to read some of the comments here, you would think the poster had lived under a rock for three years! This team is out coached, out game planned, out adjusted GAME IN AND GAME OUT. The injuries we've had this season are SIMILAR to ANY OTHER CFL TEAM...Lulay does not factor in to the injuries as the Lion's KNEW that he wasn't ready and "iffy" at best, that's why they made "the trade of the century" to get Glenn! Harris was a tough loss, but his injury was due to him having to do everything himself...you can trace that injury back to the coaches!

On this board you do not have a typical internet situation with hit and miss comments and an insatiable desire to hate everyone and everything (which seems to be the NORM in the United States, a wasteland IMO). The Lionbackers.com features some of the most intelligent, level-headed, genuine, thoughtful people I have ever "met". Trust the Zeitgiest of the board...they understand what is going on with the Lions...Westcoast Joe saw the light first with regards to CFL coaching...across the league you now have BRIGHT FOOTBALL minds who have attacked bright assistants. With Rich Campbell in OTT, Mike O'Shea in WPG and the host of smart assistants now in MTL there isn't a weak or mediocre coaching staff in the CFL OUTSIDE OF BC!!!

Khari Jones clearly does NOT know enough to compete with DC's around the league, but its still not his fault! He gets NO HELP from anyone including a former QB coaching the WRs and an OL Coach that has made a MOCKERY of the position! Forget about the HC, he struggles enough with what he says both on and off the field. Our DC is the ONLY DC in the league that doesn't base his system on pressure and blitz packages. This is something that Chris Jones and every other DC in the league began doing back in 2004 to try and deal with Chapdelaine's prolific Offences. My lone beef with Jacques has been his stubbornness to adjust to the adjustments made by everyone else in the league. JC's brilliance and success as OC made him a target league wide, and teams HAD TO ADJUST...without guns being pointed, we haven't...and it continues to this day...Stubler blind to changes in the WCFinal against CGY in 2012...last year in SSK.

So much criticism (deservedly so) has gone to Jone's Offence, but IMO Washington is NOT EXEMPT...you could see the wholes in his defensive game plan a mile away...teams have been slow to exploit them, because they have wanted to wait until it mattered. The last two weeks have shown you what our Defence could look like every week against teams who exploit the "cheating" Wash does to defend the pass...believe me when I say that it's "smoke and mirrors"...no pressure from the front four and a non existent blitz package spells death 100 out of 100 times! And unless Washington has something up his sleeve this weekend, you will witness another blow out...in fact, MTL will show you the pressure that is necessary to be created by defences to create turnovers and keep Offences on their HEELS and not their TOES!

The coaching MUST change this offseason or by the end of next season (with Trestman no longer an option) this franchise could be the punching bag for the rest of the CFL!

This is a brilliant site IMO with 20 or more guys that have incredibly impressive football minds! Take the time to read their posts and reason things out for yourself!

[WestCoastJoe]

I suppose some fans are satisfied with 9-9. It can be a fun experience at the stadium.

What if we slide down to the bottom of the league? Our very franchise will be once again at risk of failure and bankruptcy.

Other fans, used to success on the field, have expectations of a high quality football product.

Do we deserve credit or blame for a 9-9 record? Wally's record shows pretty much the highest achievement in CFL history. Why should we expect or accept less?

The ballgame has changed. Sharp coaches all over the league, as MLF and I constantly suggest. Xs and Os now matter hugely. With all the American and Canadian players available, it seems to me the talent levels out. Great talent all over the place. Coaching and Xs and Os mastery make the difference now, IMO, and in the opinions of many others on this board.

No surprise to me to see John Hufnagel's team and Kent Austin's team at the top of the standings for their divisions. Austin took over a team going nowhere. First year he took them to the Grey Cup game. This year he wins the division, despite huge turmoil over stadium issues.

* Xs and Os mastery. Essential nowadays in the CFL, it seems to me. More and more, it seems to me, your Head Coach must have this. Either on offence or defence. Proven success at the highest level. Experience in different programs is beneficial. Schemes. Playbook development. Game planning. Play calling. Adaptations. Fine tuning for each opponent. Taking advantage of the smallest weaknesses or tendencies. We see others doing this. Not us.

* Talent. Of course. Our personnel people brought these players in. It seems to me that Neil McAvoy, Kelly Bates, Wally Buono, and all the staff have done a good job bringing in talent. For myself and many others, we see as good talent on our team as on any other in this league. Some exceptions of course. Some spots not manned by all star level players. But all the CFL teams draw talent from the same talent pools. And those pools get deeper every year. Both American and Canadian.

* Coaching, including leadership. Obviously essential. Having coached some different sports, it seems to me that it is in football that coaching has the greatest bearing on overall success. Chris Jones took pretty much the same talent that was already in Edmonton and transformed that team in one season. John Hufnagel has had his Stampeders at the top since his arrival. Kent Austin has taken the TiCats to the highest level in very short order. These men have the highest credentials possible. They have proven success in so many programs. And, it seems to me, one should look for the highest credentials in making a hire for a franchise. No patronage. No favouritism. No nepotism. Promoting from within certainly builds loyalty and brings stability, but you must be able to compete. Creativity is a huge advantage. Getting the players to buy in is essential. All players rowing together. Sharpness in game situations. Leadership which inspires performance. Leadership which builds confidence.

I do see our win/loss record slip sliding down the slope. That matters to many fans.

2012: 13 and 5, tops in the league. But failure in the playoffs.

2013: 11 and 7, third place in the West. Uh oh ...

2014: 9 and 9, 4th place in the West. Yikes ... Edmonton flies past us. Calgary moves off into the distance.

And, as always, once you are in the playoffs, anything can happen. If we were to win it all, it seems to me we would still have serious, inherent weaknesses that will carry forward. Success in the playoffs would almost certainly give reprieves to our staff. But I think the odds are heavily against us winning it all. It would be nice of course ...

Just IMO. Others see it differently. And I accept their views. My comments here will not change anybody else's view.

(Some edits, finished now at 0911 am.)

[DanoT]

I won't re-copy them, but 2 back to back posts by MLF and WCJ pretty much sum up my feelings exactly.

[Rammer]

"Lionhaters" is an over the top criticism in itself, making your point rather moot. What you fail to understand is that this board represents the passion of a varying range of Lion fans, perhaps you are at one end of that spectrum. The coaches don't get a free pass this year, it is year three with the main components still in place, while the team continues to head in the wrong direction. This board tells it like it is, from a fans perspective with a good grasp on all aspects of the team. Yes after losing games in the fashion the Lions have this season, you are going to see the coaches get called out on it. If they wren't, what kind of fans would we be? One only needs to look at the overall talent to see that this team is vastly underachieving. Once the Lions understand that fans are going to pull their investment, they seem to react. Too bad that it takes the Lions that long to make the moves that is turning the fans off from the team.

I don't necessarily disagree with calling out the coaching staff, and I do personally feel that a change is needed (especially at OC) but I have noticed over the years that anytime the team is losing people are eager to blame the coaching. It's almost as if the only problem this team has had for a decade is coaching, and it's seldom on the players.

There has been ridiculous talent on the Lions over the past decade, ridiculous in comparison to the rest of the league at more than half of the positions. What has lacked is the ability to change, our coaching staff believe and have for that period that it is the players execution (which it can be during the game), but the CFL game varies so much, you have to be able to adapt to what is going on. Lions simply don't have the ability to adjust, they have one program and if that isn't working, it is a long night. During this past season, having a young OC, just showed how static the Lions are. Combine that with way too many decisions by Beney in game time that were questionable if not pathetic, the Lions have an environment to fail vs succeed. Yeah it isn't all on the coaches, but that change is going to be the step in the right direction.