Wally reacts to Saturday's humiliation in Edmonton.....

[South Pender]

I don't hold Wally much to blame for promoting Benevides to HC. At the time it seemed reasonable, and, if I'm remembering this correctly, did not attract much, if any, opposition from this forum (in hindsight, it seems like a mistake, but Wally didn't have the benefit of hindsight). Promoting from within can sometimes work well, as you are getting someone already immersed in the team's culture.

Where I think Wally erred was in extending Benevides at the beginning of this season. At the time, I spoke out about this, as did many on this forum. It just didn't seemed in the least warranted given the team's fortunes in the 2012 and 2013 seasons, losing in the Western final in 2012 and in the semi-final in 2013. Seemed to a lot of us that 2014 should be a make or break season for Benevides, with an extension riding on superior team performance during this season. I find it hard to see that giving him the extension at the time could be expected to lead to improved performance for this season.

Now that Benevides is extended, it seems to me less, rather than more, likely that we will see him canned. Not extending him would have meant only one HC salary in 2015 if Benevides were fired, but, with the extension, we're now stuck with two HC salaries in the event that Benevides is jettisoned.

[Toppy Vann]

I think we may be reading too much into Wally's comments, which, to me, sound like the expected boilerplate after a humiliating loss. Perhaps his comments this morning--mentioned by Rammer--will shed more light on his likely intentions. The prospect of Wally firing Bene after this season--although exciting to contemplate--seem remote to me, given Wally's loyalty to his coaches. More likely would be letting one or more coordinators (Jones) or coaches go, with Bene given one more year to right the ship. And, of course, Bene has two more games to produce improvement, which, if it happened, would just muddy the waters further.

Hope I'm wrong about this....

I can't believe I actually can't pick a hole in SP's logic here.

But this is an interesting thread weaving in the Bear's situation and Scott M. possibly trying to wriggle out of his contract to be OC in Chicago.

One thing though. I think if Trestman wanted to be HC and the money was decent enough possibly he'd come to Canada again - BUT he's a NC state guy IIRC and the west coast is not NC friendly for travel.

[WestCoastJoe]

First off let me just say that the quality of football knowledge and intelligence on this site is unparalleled in my experience. The comments on this thread are amongst the most insightful remarks I have ever heard regarding football. Rammer, Cro, Blitz, David, TLK, Dano, it goes on and on...any of this information could be released into the media and would be better than what's out there.

But it was Joe's comments that were beyond brilliant. He encapsulated what is wrong with this franchise and it all stems from a sure fire HOF coach, Wally Buono. Here was the most telling line...

In any case, Wally owns this mess, in my opinion. He made the hire. He gave the extension of the contract. He did not do a continent-wide search for the best candidate. He did not seek outstanding credentials, wide-ranging experience, nor an outstanding record of success. He chose his protégé.

As Blitz and Joe have told us before, Wally has thrived in the CFL because of the system he has created. It has been built by creating a winning culture, which has meant ZERO TOLERANCE for continued mistakes or failures. Wally has been RUTHLESS towards players and even coaches throughout his amazing run as a CFL coach and now GM. But NOT with certain people. Benevides, Dorazio and McMann have followed Wally around with varying degrees of success. They have been UNTOUCHABLE in comparison to how EVERYONE ELSE has been treated, including the two smartest coaches on last year's team, Jacques Chapdelaine and Rich Stubler.

Thanks, MLF. And there are indeed many terrific comments by many knowledgeable fans, with vast lifetime experiences informing their opinions, as expressed on this site week after week.

The key thing for me, as indicated above, was that Wally did not give due diligence to the hiring process, nor demand the highest qualifications. He chose his student, one with a very thin resume. It was a gamble with the future of the franchise at stake. At this time, it looks like a failed bet. Could that change with some success in the playoffs? Oh sure ... But that would not be an odds on bet. And I would suggest the franchise has already paid a heavy price for the decision. All of this made worse of course with the extension. Doubling down on the bet.

We should not be surprised now to find ourselves with huge doubts. Many thoughts were kept private at the time of the hiring, in the period of grace, with the usual hopes. But there were rumblings and doubts even then ...

We've been middling for a couple of seasons now. We are in great danger of slipping more. Surpassed by Edmonton in one dramatic turnaround this year.

Can we salvage the season? To a degree it is possible. Is there serious damage already done? I think so. Can the fan base be maintained? Ooohh ... Not so sure about that. The product on the field is not attractive nor effective to the degree that we had come to expect.

Win a game in the playoffs and I expect Wally to keep Benny on. Others might be sacrificed. Lose in the playoffs immediately, and Wally will be hard pressed to sell more of Benny to the fan base.

Wally will make a considered decision. Much will depend on what happens on the field by the end of this season.

[notahomer]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

he goal after a miserable loss, an occurrence that has happened all too often for the B.C. Lions this year, is to flush out the game quickly, but what happened at practice Tuesday was almost a total makeover.

Veteran Dante Marsh was part of the new look, which made it tough to tell whether the CFL team is simply attempting to forget a 37-3 loss to the Edmonton Eskimos, try something different for the Calgary Stampeders Friday or get everyone guessing how they’ll line up for the playoffs.

You might think a defence that has given up an average of 19.5 points would be immune from a shakeup, but there were only five starters from last week who lined up in the same position at practice.

And as Tuesday’s workout was effectively the last to be seen this year by outsiders, with the Lions closing ranks and heading indoors to B.C. Place Stadium starting Wednesday, there’s no telling what this club will really look like, much less how they will act. The playoffs have begun early.

If anyone had a right to shake his head when trying to understand what has gone on with this team since he went down with a MCL strain Sept. 19, it’s Marsh, who was back at the short-side cornerback spot he has occupied for 11 seasons but in need of name tags to identify the newcomers.

T.J. Lee was next to Marsh in the secondary, not Cord Parks, while in front of him the look was almost entirely different, owing in part to injuries that will sideline linebacker Adam Bighill (hand) and defensive end Khreem Smith (ribs).

Rookie Alex Hoffman-Ellis took the roster spot of Bighill, who’ll yield his starting position to Jamall Johnson. But you know things are really changing when Khalif Mitchell, who hasn’t played since Sept. 27, was also rescued from roster ratio purgatory.

“Some (changes) are (due to) injuries, some are rest, some is performance,” coach Mike Benevides explained. “We’re not nearly satisfied with what happened (in Edmonton).”

And nearly a month since he was asked to stay away because he didn’t attend a walk-through, Marsh is still wondering whether the sanction imposed on him isn’t having an adverse effect on the Lions.

“By (the Lions) making an example out of me I think had an reverse reaction,” said Marsh. “If I’m a young guy looking at a 35-year-old who is working out every day, I’m thinking, ‘Well, if they do that to him...’

“I don’t do anything crazy. There’s people on this team, I won’t say names, but ‘wow’ is all I can say. For them to tell me I’m a cancer? I know I’m respected in this locker-room. If they don’t want me, I got two Grey Cup rings, I go somewhere else. That’s just reality.”

And here you thought the biggest challenge is whether the Lions should sit Smith, Eric Taylor and Alex Bazzie up front defensively and give rookies Rob Lohr, Chris Olson and Marcus Dixon a shot. For Olson and Dixon, the moves have a duel purpose as it would trigger the option year in their contracts for next season.

Trying to provide some leadership at a time when the voices in the locker-room are getting louder and not necessarily more enthusiastic is Benevides. He says he hears the negative vibe of a fan base that wonders how the Lions can play five games and not score a touchdown this year, and suggestions from general manager Wally Buono that he didn’t coach very well in Edmonton.

“If some people say it doesn’t affect them, they’re lying. It’s how you decide to handle it,” Benevides said. “When you have a game like that, it sticks with you a little longer. We’re all indicted, but I take the highest accountability.

“The goal today was to try and flush it out. One of the great things about a lot of the people here is that there’s enough (veterans) that the youth will fall in line.”

If they fall behind Marsh, they may wonder what is happening to the team they thought they had back at training camp in Kamloops.

lullrich@theprovince.com

So sounds like Marsh is back out there. Benevides saying all the right things. Practicing indoors at the Dome over Surrey? Well it is time for that November Rain....

This next game really doesn't change much for me though. I mean if they come out strong, okay, you got beat bad last week. But it'll be the Semifinal game taht really matters.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

And nearly a month since he was asked to stay away because he didn’t attend a walk-through, Marsh is still wondering whether the sanction imposed on him isn’t having an adverse effect on the Lions.

“By (the Lions) making an example out of me I think had an reverse reaction,” said Marsh. “If I’m a young guy looking at a 35-year-old who is working out every day, I’m thinking, ‘Well, if they do that to him...’

“I don’t do anything crazy. There’s people on this team, I won’t say names, but ‘wow’ is all I can say. For them to tell me I’m a cancer? I know I’m respected in this locker-room. If they don’t want me, I got two Grey Cup rings, I go somewhere else. That’s just reality.”
...

Trying to provide some leadership at a time when the voices in the locker-room are getting louder and not necessarily more enthusiastic is Benevides. He says he hears the negative vibe of a fan base that wonders how the Lions can play five games and not score a touchdown this year, and suggestions from general manager Wally Buono that he didn’t coach very well in Edmonton.

Thanks for posting, nota. With reference to Lowell Ullrich writing in the Province.

One cannot help but sense disquiet in the locker from what we read above.

Not necessarily the death knell for our season. But if things fall apart, it will certainly look like part of what went wrong was a leadership problem. Not all rowing together. Not all on the same page. Morale issues.

[TheLionKing]

Sounds like there is dissension in the club. Final game of the regular season and you're still fidgeting with the lineups. Not a good sign.

[aklawitter]

Fan disinterest. Ticket prices out of touch with the paying public. Low attendance. 33,196 guaranteed free tickets. "Inactive" list (paying players to stay home). Possibly paying 2 HC salaries next year.

I can't imagine Braley being too happy with any of this.

[Belize City Lion]

Wally's comment about his coach could be a message to the players. There is enough talent on this team to still win a championship despite their HC. Maybe Wally is trying to plant the idea that playing well will not be enough save an unpopular coach? I am convinced that horrible performance in Edmonton was deliberate. How come a team with so many veterans has not kicked the coaches out of the locker room and held a players only meeting following a game like that? I say right now most of the vets don't want to win because they are afraid of saving MB's job if they do.

[Rammer]

Sounds like there is dissension in the club. Final game of the regular season and you're still fidgeting with the lineups. Not a good sign.

I am not worried about the lineup changes, as a couple sound like it is due to injuries, and another couple to keep their contract in place for next season. What does jump out at me though is how unprepared Benevides is at holding his power issues and how he goes about enforcing it. I can't recall Wally sitting a player of Marsh's stature and tenure out of inner circle, let alone pushing him out of the game plan. Expecting Marsh to buy in after sitting him out isn't good coaching IMO, but that has been a standard for this season. Remember MacDonald and Benevides, somehow he isn't getting the players to see the big picture he is trying to paint.

Now a point in time comes in every GM's life, where he has to decide if he fires the team or the HC to get the team heading in the same direction. In the final game of the season, the Lions don't seem to have the oars in sync, let alone in the same direction. Sadly, as talented as the Lions are, I have to chalk this up to another coaching error, not letting the talent reach its full potential.

[MexicoLionFan]

Players want to win, that's why they play CFL football, it isn't about the money per se. When players see that their coaching staff CAN'T ADJUST to problems, they lose focus, confidence and respect...but this is the ONLY way you "lose players" and it takes a LOT to lose them! Marsh doesn't like being made an example of because he believes his "mistake" was out of his hands, but he's disillusioned because he lacking HOPE that they can win when it counts. The entire Lions coaching staff has failed to make adjustments FOR A LONG TIME...not just this season...Stubler, Chapdelaine, Jones, Washington, McMann, Benevides...ALL THE SAME...so ask yourselves WHY when they all KNOW BETTER.

As Joe and Blitz said, its Wally's attitude of "this is how we do it, try and beat us"...the problem is, Wally has a LOSING RECORD in home playoff games during his career, and that just shouldn't happen.

If Benevides was a Defensive or Offensive Guru, he could work with his coaches over these 2 weeks to come up with something original and effective...the fact is, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO...so you blame the players...and when that no longer works, you blame your assistants...that's not coaching and that's not leadership...that's ignorance and fear!

[Blitz]

And what makes smart people like Wally (and everyone here who has met Wally knows just how shrewd he is) do STUPID things? Strong personal BELIEFS. Beliefs are what define each of us...we are NOTHING MORE OR LESS than our beliefs. Modern Biology has now discovered that genetics play essentially a ZERO role in who we are, only how we look. Cancer cells have been taken from patients, placed into a petrie dish and then surrounded by nothing more than loving words, chants from Tibetan Monks and beautiful Music and these cells have HEALED THEMSELVES OUTSIDE OF THE HUMAN BODY! There is only ONE conclusion to draw from this, that nature is purrfect and we *frig* it up by believing in FEAR instead of LOVE...and that's why our world looks and acts like it does. MLF

\

I didn't quote your entire post MLF, due to its length but I thought it was brilliant and not only one of the best posts ever on Lionbackers but also so thoughtful that I saved it. Thanks for writing it..it had all the elements...perspective, insightful, thought provoking, reflective, inspiring.

[Toppy Vann]

And nearly a month since he was asked to stay away because he didn’t attend a walk-through, Marsh is still wondering whether the sanction imposed on him isn’t having an adverse effect on the Lions.

“By (the Lions) making an example out of me I think had an reverse reaction,” said Marsh. “If I’m a young guy looking at a 35-year-old who is working out every day, I’m thinking, ‘Well, if they do that to him...’

“I don’t do anything crazy. There’s people on this team, I won’t say names, but ‘wow’ is all I can say. For them to tell me I’m a cancer? I know I’m respected in this locker-room. If they don’t want me, I got two Grey Cup rings, I go somewhere else. That’s just reality.”

That's about how I expected it played out.

It is one thing to do it to a guy who is not playing well but to Marsh right after Phillips - not too smart.

However Marsh is now tossing his HC under the bus... Crazy.. He must be not thinking smart, very angry or believe MB is not long for this team.

[DanoT]

Wally's comment about his coach could be a message to the players. There is enough talent on this team to still win a championship despite their HC. Maybe Wally is trying to plant the idea that playing well will not be enough save an unpopular coach? I am convinced that horrible performance in Edmonton was deliberate. How come a team with so many veterans has not kicked the coaches out of the locker room and held a players only meeting following a game like that? I say right now most of the vets don't want to win because they are afraid of saving MB's job if they do.

Good Point BCL. I hadn't thought about the lack of a Players Only Meeting but it is something that often happens after getting so thoroughly beaten up. Your suggestion that the HC has lost the team is certainly plausible imo. O line coach Dorazio loosing his players is something that I had wondered about earlier in the season but it was more about his complex blocking schemes going over the head of his very young O line.

It just may be that Benevides publicly questioning Ryan Philips motivation to play just to keep a consecutive game string from ending and his refusal to give Marsh an OK to miss the game film review of a game that Marsh didn't play in has fostered some resentment I would guess.

In the end, I hope the Lions get to play the Esks in the WSF because all they need to do is just score one TD and they will then have played twice as good as the previous game with the Esks.

[The_Pauser]

I'm sorry but the thought that the players don't want to win is completely laughable. It's one of these fan-made conspiracies that is so completely out of touch that anyone on that roster, from the top guy to the bottom guy on the practice roster would completely laugh off that idea.

These guys are professionals. They get paid to do this. It's their job and their livelihood. They are a proud bunch, and they all badly want to win that Grey Cup. They want to play well because playing well means more money on their next contract for some, and for others it means they'll have a job next year doing what they love to do. To suggest they're deliberately playing poorly because they want to get their coach fired, is also career suicide for some.

There's a lot of fan-made conspiracies that I hear, both on the boards and talking to people outside. But this is one of the most ridiculous ones I've heard in a while.

[SammyGreene]

Ugh... LU said on his weekly podcast today Benevides was given a 2-year extension now just one and is under contract through the 2016 season. Chalk that up as one of the biggest Buono blunders during his 14 years here.