Lions 7 - RedBlacks 5 -- Post Game Stats and Comments

[Toppy Vann]

It won't be long before the media focus more on stories about the lacklustre leadership in the HC. More and more he's making statements about not caring what anyone thinks - dangerous ground that puts him pretty much on the same weak ground that Kavis Reed moved to - only to find that the best he got was to be paid for not coaching.

BUT one point in defense of Benny is his statement that with his new Co-ordinators they won't be as good to start as they will 180 days from that point. I think he meant they peak the week after Grey Cup.

[TheLionKing]

Ignore the fans at your peril Benevides. They are the ones that is paying your salary.

[Rammer]

It won't be long before the media focus more on stories about the lacklustre leadership in the HC. More and more he's making statements about not caring what anyone thinks - dangerous ground that puts him pretty much on the same weak ground that Kavis Reed moved to - only to find that the best he got was to be paid for not coaching.

BUT one point in defense of Benny is his statement that with his new Co-ordinators they won't be as good to start as they will 180 days from that point. I think he meant they peak the week after Grey Cup.

Still not setting the bar very high regardless of the extra week...in Beny we trust...

[The_Pauser]

The joy of a win often masks deficiencies and but for a huge hit by Solly on the 1 yard line and a divine intervention by the weather on Ottawa's FG attempt, then it would have been a disgusting loss instead of a feeble "A win is a win".

I have never felt so down as a result of a Lions win. And that is not even factoring in Lulay's injury.

I wonder if Edmonton fans made the same comments about Chris Jones after they barely squeaked out a win in low scoring fashion.

[Hawkballer 14]

So much arrogance (we pay your salary) and entitlement (ugh, win wasn't decisive enough).

A win is a win is a win.

[Rammer]

So much arrogance (we pay your salary) and entitlement (ugh, win wasn't decisive enough).

A win is a win is a win.

If you don't think that the Lions are concerned about attendance you are sorely mistaken. If fans begin to turn off on the team due to lack luster performances, coaching arrogance or whatever the case is, then yes there is a problem Houston. This forum gives an indication in the direction that the fans are thinking, it is reactionary to both the onfield product and what the media is picking up. That isn't arrogance or entitlement, it is part of the process that offers fan insight that the Lions desperately need in 2014.

Lions sustained one loss vs Mtl that cost the Lions huge in the standings, another loss to Ottawa in similar fashion could almost cost the Lions any playoff hope. That is what the fans are frustrated with, Lions didn't win that game as much as Ottawa lost it.

[Toppy Vann]

So much arrogance (we pay your salary) and entitlement (ugh, win wasn't decisive enough).

A win is a win is a win.

If you don't think that the Lions are concerned about attendance you are sorely mistaken. If fans begin to turn off on the team due to lack luster performances, coaching arrogance or whatever the case is, then yes there is a problem Houston. This forum gives an indication in the direction that the fans are thinking, it is reactionary to both the onfield product and what the media is picking up. That isn't arrogance or entitlement, it is part of the process that offers fan insight that the Lions desperately need in 2014.

Lions sustained one loss vs Mtl that cost the Lions huge in the standings, another loss to Ottawa in similar fashion could almost cost the Lions any playoff hope. That is what the fans are frustrated with, Lions didn't win that game as much as Ottawa lost it.

Also, if you don't think ownership and the President of the BC Lions - the latter who is charged with bringing fickle fans flocking to buy tickets aren't concerned with how the team is playing you'd be in fantasyland.

Ugly is ugly and fans get the narrative on the win pretty quickly - especially the marginal ones who only want a win or tons of excitement. Low scores aren't motivators to leave your sofa for the stadium. I've been in situations during the dark 90s when it was hard to change the minds of others that the game attended by 19000 or so fans was exciting and the noise sounded like it was full. I was there - many times not able to get my wife or friends to go - even though the ticket was free to them and they didn't need to buy me anything or pay for parking as I had that all covered. They just had the it's not a good product narrative.

To a coach and team - they will say a win is a win - but they also learn the lesson in any type of win or loss and move on from there.

When you hear the HC fairly consistently now with the narrative knocking commentators (they might get a whistle someday) and fans (I don't care what anyone thinks) that is a bit troubling as it appears that the HC is losing the plot here.

Fans satisfaction is huge for TV ratings and tickets.

[cromartie]

So much arrogance (we pay your salary) and entitlement (ugh, win wasn't decisive enough).

A win is a win is a win.

Winning championships has a positive corollary with attendance increases in the subsequent year. From a gate revenue standpoint, winning means nothing in the current year. In gate driven leagues, style points, as you put it, do matter.

Every major Canadian market, except Regina, regards everything that isn't the NHL as something they can take or leave, therefore, if you want to put butts in seats, you need to create the perception of a competitive, entertaining product. Winning 7-5 while running an offense so anemic and porous that it gets your franchise QB and most marketable player injured, probably for good, is not what I would call a recipe for financial success.

Low scores aren't motivators to leave your sofa for the stadium.

Then again, they weren't exactly packing them in when they were losing 51-48, either. So there's a balance that needs to be struck, here.

[notahomer]

.....Fans satisfaction is huge for TV ratings and tickets.

The games that have looked MOST interesting (save the Montreal/Ottawa games ) have been ROAD games. One problem this team certainly had during Tempire (and a few this season too!) were ugly games HERE. BC Place is suppossed to be this tough place to play. IMO, teams seem to be enjoying shutting the fans up almost as much as they do beating the Lions...

[Sir Purrcival]

In concurrence with the above, the members here are in many ways much more likely to view the product as connoisseurs of the game. They represent that top 10% of dedicated fans who look beyond just the outcome of a game but also the lead up to and the wind down after. They may not be the bread and butter of revenue but they are the knife that spreads it. If you can't convince them that the game product is good and healthy, then how does an organization like the Lions expect to excite the less committed fan? The comments in this thread and countless others are more often than not filled with informed, insightful commentary from individuals who know the game and know what are the telltale signs of a successful franchise ranging from solid ownership and management all the way through coaching and to the athletes themselves. In short, it is a select group (and to steal a phrase) that often gets the narrative of a team far sooner than even media outlets paid to cover them. For the most part, there is little that is truly reactionary here. Mostly it is opinion based on years of viewership and in the case of some, coaching and/or playing. The Lions don't run the show by hanging on what is said here but they damn well know that when the group here is unhappy, they may have bigger problems a stirring. This 7-5 win isn't the problem in and of itself. What is a problem is the perception that despite having loads of talent in some areas, certain key problems continue to be unaddressed. Oline issues that have continued to be a problem for what seems years,concerns at safety - same thing. We have a coach that last year seemed to be in over his head, making perplexing sideline calls and whose behaviours and commentary has been debatable continuing in the same vein. Results that seem to indicate that rather than improving, we are backsliding into the basement of our division and becoming a team that is going to struggle to even make the playoffs much less compete for the grand prize. All while the current coach talks about not caring about what others think, characterizing performances as much better than they actually are, failing to make what seems to many obvious adjustments to game plans that continue to falter.

It isn't arrogance that drives the commentary, the record and the performances drive it and the record this year could actually be worse than it is now. A win may be a win, but a win really only counts if it is the Grey Cup game. The rest are merely parts to a larger puzzle and the facts suggest that the head minds of this team are having a hard time assembling the pieces. If they don't figure it out soon, the puzzle will be completed by someone one else because that is the nature of the game. And that, none of them should have trouble understanding.

[Blitz]

So much arrogance (we pay your salary) and entitlement (ugh, win wasn't decisive enough).

A win is a win is a win.

If you don't think that the Lions are concerned about attendance you are sorely mistaken. If fans begin to turn off on the team due to lack luster performances, coaching arrogance or whatever the case is, then yes there is a problem Houston. This forum gives an indication in the direction that the fans are thinking, it is reactionary to both the onfield product and what the media is picking up. That isn't arrogance or entitlement, it is part of the process that offers fan insight that the Lions desperately need in 2014.

Lions sustained one loss vs Mtl that cost the Lions huge in the standings, another loss to Ottawa in similar fashion could almost cost the Lions any playoff hope. That is what the fans are frustrated with, Lions didn't win that game as much as Ottawa lost it.

Also, if you don't think ownership and the President of the BC Lions - the latter who is charged with bringing fickle fans flocking to buy tickets aren't concerned with how the team is playing you'd be in fantasyland.

Ugly is ugly and fans get the narrative on the win pretty quickly - especially the marginal ones who only want a win or tons of excitement. Low scores aren't motivators to leave your sofa for the stadium. I've been in situations during the dark 90s when it was hard to change the minds of others that the game attended by 19000 or so fans was exciting and the noise sounded like it was full. I was there - many times not able to get my wife or friends to go - even though the ticket was free to them and they didn't need to buy me anything or pay for parking as I had that all covered. They just had the it's not a good product narrative.

To a coach and team - they will say a win is a win - but they also learn the lesson in any type of win or loss and move on from there.

When you hear the HC fairly consistently now with the narrative knocking commentators (they might get a whistle someday) and fans (I don't care what anyone thinks) that is a bit troubling as it appears that the HC is losing the plot here.

Fans satisfaction is huge for TV ratings and tickets.

I'm really surprised that Benevedes has been able to get such a free pass from the media/press so far. He took over a Grey Cup championship team that enjoyed a very good regular season in 2012 but lost badly to Calgary in the 2012 WDF. Last season was a step down to third place in the West and a road playoff loss. This season has involved a poor start, losses to teams we were expected to beat at home, and presently we are tied for last in the West.

Benevedes has been able to avoid the spotlight, in terms of our Leos continuous downhill slide, for a number of reasons including Wally using all his resources to protect him, including laying blame on coordinators, the 2013 shoulder injury to Lulay, the release of Stubler and Chapdelaine, and the notion that what really ailed us us this season was that Glenn was our starting quarterback for the first 9 games.

The reality is that we lost the 2012 and 2013 playoffs with Lulay as our quarterback, that Stubler is considered one of the best three defensive coordinators to ever coach in the CFL (Chris Jones is the next one to be added to that list), Chapdelaine was the offensive coordinator for two Grey Cup winning offences and had a number of seasons in which our offence was the best in the CFL (in spite of spite being hamstrung by an offensive line coach who historically cannot lead his charges to protect our quarterback). The reality is that Lulay was unable to generate a touchdown against Ottawa even though he had practiced with the first string unit for weeks, his shoulder was declared healthy, and he had played a number of series in our previous two games.

Lulay would have been better with more games played under his belt if he had not gotten injured, but the Ottawa game showed that Lulay could not be a savior nor should he have been expected to be. Kevin Glenn, who was under the glare of the media/press is now being shown more appreciation again with Lulay's injury, as he should be. Glenn won a lot of games for Calgary as a starter over the previous two seasons and he also was the quarterback who shredded our defense in the WDF in 2012.

But Kevin Glenn is playing quarterback for our B.C. Lions, not Calgary, and there is a difference. In B.C. we expect our quarterback to be able to shred a defense successfully and win games without protection or time to throw, to take brutal hits, to get sacked a ton and keep on getting up and never let those quick pressures, hits, and sacks have any effect. In Leo Land we expect our quarterbacks to play injured and not let those injuries have any affect on our quarterback play. We expect our quarterback to be able to avoid both a defensive lineman who has come completely free and a blitzing linebacker who has an unimpeded route to the pocket, escape, and run upfield for a 20 yard gain.

We`ve expect our quarterbacks to be able to overcome the lack of a running game, when it gets shut down, as if it`s a non-factor. In fact too often, we expect our quarterbacks to be almost superhuman, to be heroes and saviors, to overcome any adversity, and lead us to victory,, no matter the adversity. That has been expected in Leo Land now for so long its become our NORMAL, when it shouldn`t be.

The history of Dave Dickenson, Casey Printers, Buck Pierce, Jarious Jackson, Travis Lulay, and Kevin Glenn should be written as a Greek tragedy. These often injured quarterbacks often played over their heads in overcoming a pass rush that had led to our Leos franchise giving up the most sacks in the CFL over the past 10 years even though we have had very cerebral quarterbacks like Dickenson and Glenn or very mobile, athletic quarterbacks as Printers, Pierce, Jackson, and Lulay. All were encumbered by an offensive line coach in Dorazio who often failed them in pass protection or opening up initial holes for the run game.

Chap and now Khari Jones have been the main targets when our quarterbacks or running backs/receivers or the offensive line have been unable to get the job done or the players themselves and while all share some accountability the responsibility goes to the HC when quarterbacks are not protected or the run game does not produce. Changing quarterbacks or running backs or receivers or the offensive coordinator only hides the main problem. We've had talented offensive lineman over the years and we've had offensive lines that have played together for long stretches and that has not solved the problem. The main problem is winning the line of scrimmage and protecting the quarterback and giving him the requisite 3 seconds to throw most of the time.

This is a Leo team that is sliding again, as it did from 2008 to the first 7 games of 2011, mainly due to our offence, as was the case from 2008 to early 2011. Our offence is mainly struggling due to a lack of quarterback protection and when we've lost this season its also because we were not able to establish an effective run game. We are now begun another mid-season slump with our run game. Its been more than dreadful the last two games, even though we have two excellent backs in Harris and Logan. Lulay did not get decent pass protection against Ottawa nor did Glenn the game before, when Steward and Valli were our starters nor couldn't run the football or protect our quarterback with those two playing...so blaming things on offensive line changes is bogus and a distraction from what ails us.

Losing Travis Lulay to injury takes away a lot of optimism that his mobility were anticipated, to bring in order to overcome our inability to pass protect. We hoped for magic. There were times that Lulay brought that magic and at other times he was unable to because he is human. Lulay certainly, at times, pulled a rabbit out of the hat, avoided sacks and made plays, much more often than he should have been expected to. Glenn will have to make very quick releases and quick reads and throw with a lot of pressure in his face, take a lot of hits, deal with sacks, play sore or injured, and cope with too many penalties including too many delay of penalties (how about those hand signals now) to experience some success. We will also ask of him, as we have earlier this season, as we have of Travis before, to perform magic of some sort.

However, no one asks for some magic from Benevedes. In fact we don't even ask him to be average, in his role. We just hope that he doesn't continue to embarrass, to make common sense game calls, to stop posing and ranting and stop berating his coordinators during games.

Its time the press/media begins to put some pressure where its due. Right now Benevedes, with Dorazio coaching the offensive line are our two biggest problems. There is no Stefan Logan to bring in, no new blocking scheme to unfold for a short term fix. Short term Kharri Jones will need to do what Chap finally realized he needed to do in 2011 - get out of the spread offence and change the offence to compensate for Dorazio's ineptitude. The spread is also past its nadir, which is another incentive to change things. That will help, but it will not resolve the problem. We couldn't open holes for Harris for many games in the middle of the schedule, last season, even when Chap was using power formations.

Until we can get better leadership from the HC position and better coaching for the offensive line, it will be very difficult to become a championship team. The best we can hope for is that our players can play over the heads for a string of games and get a streak going.

The injury to Travis Lulay is heart breaking. The only positive that can possibly come out of it, is that instead of just focusing on Travis 'saving' our season, perhaps it can be an impetus for our coaching staff to more closely examine what they are doing and make changes. One can only hope.

[BC 1988]

Excellent analysis, Blitz.

The success the Lions had in GC wins in '06 and '11 has prevented anything happening to correct the O-line inadequacy. If they hadn't won them, we likely would have seen changes that would have lessened the high cost in QB career ending injuries.

I remember saying to my friend when we were at GC '11, how impressed I was that Travis was able to avoid injuries even with his style of play (unlike pretty much every QB we've had after Damon Allen) . That was short-lived, of course.

[WestCoastJoe]

Excellent analysis, Blitz.

The success the Lions had in GC wins in '06 and '11 has prevented anything happening to correct the O-line inadequacy. If they hadn't won them, we likely would have seen changes that would have lessened the high cost in QB career ending injuries.

I remember saying to my friend when we were at GC '11, how impressed I was that Travis was able to avoid injuries even with his style of play (unlike pretty much every QB we've had after Damon Allen) . That was short-lived, of course.

Yes, excellent review of where we have been, Blitz.