Westerman charged re: alleged nightclub incident

[Shi Zi Mi]

Here it is:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... um=twitter

Looks like Buono is in full spin mode......IMHO, expect a trade in the week following Friday's game.....also, IMHO, it will have NOTHING to do with this incident.

[TheLionKing]

Sounds like it's more than just throwing a punch at a bouncer. I agree with Shi Zi Mi that Westerman will soon be history with the Lions.

[Toppy Vann]

Lions4ever, I'm glad you are not the Lions GM because with you very strict code of conduct, releasing players with no warnings or 2nd chances, you'd have the Lions in the basement...oh wait, they already are in last place and without your help.

I don't think it's a "strict" code of conduct at all. I said I believed in second chances. Read my earlier post. Just elsewhere. Look, here's a guy...a visible, comparatively high-profile person on a sports team that looks to this community for support and presumably values a relationship of high goodwill with that community....who are running an anti-violence campaign and who has, apparently, seen fit to depart from the standards of civilized society. The good ol' days of boys will be boys is over. And rightly so.

Ok, I think I got it: you don't believe in the Lions giving second chances. I do.

In Westerman's case you may get your wish. It turns out he punched a bouncer which likely means he won't be able to claim that he was provoked and also I've never heard of a sober person punching a bouncer. LU wrote about it in the 5th Quarter and quotes Coach Benny as saying that we will support him as best we can and the decision as to whether he plays on Friday will be made after they find out the results of his court appearance which was held today. I tried to find he article again to provide a link but I couldn't find it, such are my computer skills.

I've seen bouncers get carried away so who knows what happened but certainly fans will swallow whatever Kool-aid the GM gives them.

Free pass to fighting in the dressing room as that the players' place - Jackson - cracked jaw and Jerome Messam and Westerman just trashed in the media by Wally in what to me is an unprecedented, unfair and and uncalled for manner as this case is before the courts.

One report says if he does anger management the Crown will drop this... IF that was true, it's not likely that serious

[Lions4ever]

Here it is:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... um=twitter

Looks like Buono is in full spin mode......IMHO, expect a trade in the week following Friday's game.....also, IMHO, it will have NOTHING to do with this incident.

I think it will have everything (not going to cap) to do with it and it is clear that, but for the CBA, he would be out the door. Buono is very, very POed, that much is obvious.

EDIT: Shi Zi Mi, I should say I'm not picking a fight with you, I just have a different view of it. You're an awesome member of this forum and I always enjoy your stuff. Cheers..and Go Lions!

[green road kill]

Don't be so hard on Wally over this , it sounds like Westermen has other issuses.

The last thing this team needs is a west coast version of Taj smith. I am not saying that Westermen is anything like Smith, but team dicciplen must be kept . Out here in the land of the homeless gopher, we bench or cut players for fumbling ,while granting Smith perferd player status.

If Westermen has worn out his welcome with the Lion's he did it on his own

[Toppy Vann]

Don't be so hard on Wally over this , it sounds like Westermen has other issuses.

The last thing this team needs is a west coast version of Taj smith. I am not saying that Westermen is anything like Smith, but team dicciplen must be kept . Out here in the land of the homeless gopher, we bench or cut players for fumbling ,while granting Smith perferd player status.

If Westermen has worn out his welcome with the Lion's he did it on his own

IF - and we're speculating based on how angry Buono is in the media - he has OTHER issues as Wally's quotes insinuate, then the GM should do what any employer would do is - and sit down with him and lay out the expectations.

To do this in the media means Wally's WIN-LOSE approach wins fans to his side but unfairly condemns a guy before his date in court. Wally would certainly have tainted his right to a jury trial by tainting the entire jury pool before trial and a hearing of the evidence in a court of law.

When Wally blew off the Jackson - Messam fight as fine as it was in the dressing room and that is the players' place - that statement was not called either. That was ridiculous both in law and legal responsibility and onus on the Lions as the employer but ridiculous as it says that Wally has no control over this area and here Westerman can then punch someone with impunity.

In how he's handling this he's also leaving his HC dangling and looking weak - as all he can do is say 'it's up to Wally.' Most HC speak and issue a team position. Not say it's up to the GM.

[Shi Zi Mi]

Here it is:

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... um=twitter

Looks like Buono is in full spin mode......IMHO, expect a trade in the week following Friday's game.....also, IMHO, it will have NOTHING to do with this incident.

I think it will have everything (not going to cap) to do with it and it is clear that, but for the CBA, he would be out the door. Buono is very, very POed, that much is obvious.

EDIT: Shi Zi Mi, I should say I'm not picking a fight with you, I just have a different view of it. You're an awesome member of this forum and I always enjoy your stuff. Cheers..and Go Lions!

Not a problem Lions4ever.....we're all entitled to an opinion.

Situations like this have occurred several times in the past and the player's importance to the club GREATLY influences how the team reacts to the incident. They gave Josh Boden a number of chances because of his potential, before finally giving up on him......same for Messam, not taking action until the player committee forced their hand. But Herman Smith was quickly shown the door, because he was an import that they could easily replace. IMHO, if Westerman had of extended his contract in the off season, the Lions would have quickly swept this under the rug....nothing to see here.....but because he refused and the team now wants to trade him to get some value for a 1st Rd picked that they traded up to get.....they're making a stink to justify the move to the fan base.

[David]

Situations like this have occurred several times in the past and the player's importance to the club GREATLY influences how the team reacts to the incident. They gave Josh Boden a number of chances because of his potential, before finally giving up on him......same for Messam, not taking action until the player committee forced their hand. But Herman Smith was quickly shown the door, because he was an import that they could easily replace. IMHO, if Westerman had of extended his contract in the off season, the Lions would have quickly swept this under the rug....nothing to see here.....but because he refused and the team now wants to trade him to get some value for a 1st Rd picked that they traded up to get.....they're making a stink to justify the move to the fan base.

Not sure I follow your logic, Shi Zi Mi. Doubtful the Lions call attention to this, kick up a fuss, and express their moral outrage if they're bent on trading him to another team. I don't think they need to 'justify' trading Jabar to the fan base as few Lions fans other than us hardcore fans really know him well. This whole thing has hardly been a headline grabber in the local media either.

Trade him or play him? I just don't know all the facts of the case to say one way or another. I do know we're quite thin at non-import talent and we're not going to get great value for him. So if Wally is intent on seizing the moral high ground here, he's got to live with the fact that he's probably not helping his football team. Jabar Westerman was the West's candidate for CFL rookie and I don't believe he has been given adequate reps to prove that he's a full-time starter (which I believe he is).

I do know that police don't get called to nightclub incidents unless something fairly serious goes down. I used to work in bars. Not uncommon for people to scuffle with bouncers (or "doormen' as they prefer to be called now), but it usually doesn't end well for them. Jabar is 6'2" 290lbs. He could inflict some fairly serious damage if he ever connected with a punch. The fact that this is even going through the court process leads me to believe that Jabar must have laid him out or something fairly significant occurred. I personally believe in second chances, but I don't know if he's already had one.



DH

[Lions4ever]

Not a problem Lions4ever.....we're all entitled to an opinion.

So true, my brother! And I find my own somehow magnetically compelling!

[Blue In BC]

Did Westerman even play yesterday? The stats don't show him making a tackle and I don't recall seeing him out there?

If he didn't play that leads more credence to the fact he's in the real dog house and may be about to be traded?

[Hambone]

[IF - and we're speculating based on how angry Buono is in the media - he has OTHER issues as Wally's quotes insinuate, then the GM should do what any employer would do is - and sit down with him and lay out the expectations.

To do this in the media means Wally's WIN-LOSE approach wins fans to his side but unfairly condemns a guy before his date in court. Wally would certainly have tainted his right to a jury trial by tainting the entire jury pool before trial and a hearing of the evidence in a court of law.

When Wally blew off the Jackson - Messam fight as fine as it was in the dressing room and that is the players' place - that statement was not called either. That was ridiculous both in law and legal responsibility and onus on the Lions as the employer but ridiculous as it says that Wally has no control over this area and here Westerman can then punch someone with impunity.

In how he's handling this he's also leaving his HC dangling and looking weak - as all he can do is say 'it's up to Wally.' Most HC speak and issue a team position. Not say it's up to the GM.

If as Wally's quotes insinuate Westerman has other issues then I would submit that those conversations have likely taken place, perhaps more than once. My sense of Buono is that he is not one who would sit idly by if he gets wind of a player being involved in something he deems detrimental to the image of the BC Lions. One thing I think differentiates pro sports employers from mainstream employers is that these days pro sports teams do spend time with their players covering off what the expectations are of them both on and off the field. It's become standard practice with rookies and draft picks in all leagues. I would be shocked if at the start of every training camp Lions management doesn't formally address the topic with all players in a team meeting. Few if any mainstream companies spend time with employees laying out expectations for how they should conduct themselves away from the workplace.

If Buono has already discussed concerns with Westerman previous to this assault charge then I have no problems with Wally giving Jabar a bit of public tough love because the behind closed doors approach doesn't seem to be working. By being charged Westerman is the person who made this incident public, not Buono. Unfortunately these days when these sorts of incidents happen it's the GM and HC who seem to get drawn more under the microscope than the player. On Thursday Team 1040 had Sekeres and Lalji doing their show from BC Place during the Lions walk through. Benevides dropped by. After fielding a couple questions about Lulay and possibilities of playing vs Hamilton their next questions were about Westerman.

[DanoT]

Did Westerman even play yesterday? The stats don't show him making a tackle and I don't recall seeing him out there?

If he didn't play that leads more credence to the fact he's in the real dog house and may be about to be traded?

Yes, Westerman played.

[Shi Zi Mi]

Situations like this have occurred several times in the past and the player's importance to the club GREATLY influences how the team reacts to the incident. They gave Josh Boden a number of chances because of his potential, before finally giving up on him......same for Messam, not taking action until the player committee forced their hand. But Herman Smith was quickly shown the door, because he was an import that they could easily replace. IMHO, if Westerman had of extended his contract in the off season, the Lions would have quickly swept this under the rug....nothing to see here.....but because he refused and the team now wants to trade him to get some value for a 1st Rd picked that they traded up to get.....they're making a stink to justify the move to the fan base.

Not sure I follow your logic, Shi Zi Mi. Doubtful the Lions call attention to this, kick up a fuss, and express their moral outrage if they're bent on trading him to another team. I don't think they need to 'justify' trading Jabar to the fan base as few Lions fans other than us hardcore fans really know him well. This whole thing has hardly been a headline grabber in the local media either.

Trade him or play him? I just don't know all the facts of the case to say one way or another. I do know we're quite thin at non-import talent and we're not going to get great value for him. So if Wally is intent on seizing the moral high ground here, he's got to live with the fact that he's probably not helping his football team. Jabar Westerman was the West's candidate for CFL rookie and I don't believe he has been given adequate reps to prove that he's a full-time starter (which I believe he is).

I do know that police don't get called to nightclub incidents unless something fairly serious goes down. I used to work in bars. Not uncommon for people to scuffle with bouncers (or "doormen' as they prefer to be called now), but it usually doesn't end well for them. Jabar is 6'2" 290lbs. He could inflict some fairly serious damage if he ever connected with a punch. The fact that this is even going through the court process leads me to believe that Jabar must have laid him out or something fairly significant occurred. I personally believe in second chances, but I don't know if he's already had one.



DH

IMHO, the Lions are very concerned with public perception.....not only about player conduct but appeasing the paying customer. Trading away a 1st RD pick that you traded up to get does not put the team in a great light.....the Lions wouldn't want the average fan to know that players are looking elsewhere and refusing to extend contracts......so it's easier to sell a "bad conduct" incident as it's front and center in the media. As for other teams, they are fully aware of Westerman's abilities and have their own players actions to be concerned about.....Buono's comments wouldn't affect them.

As for going through the courts, charges are filed and dropped on a regular basis and never see the inside of a courtroom.....that's why I don't understand the over reaction to an incident that has not been fully investigated and processed. One could guess that the Lions have some kind of "inside information" but do they know with any degree of certainty what ACTUALLY happened?