Bombers 23 - Lions 6 Post Game Stats and Comments

[Sir Purrcival]

Well that was fun....NOT. Had the misfortune of being in attendance tonight and I have to say, we had two QB's out there tonight. A rookie in his first full year as starter and a multi-year veteran. One had poise, delivered good strikes and moved his team when he had to. The other forced ball into coverage, threw picks at at really inopportune times and looked completely out of synch with his receivers. You guessed, right, it was Glenn who looked bad. But as bad as he looked, I'm not sure that Travis would do much better. At times tonight the Oline was invisible. When you have a dlineman in your face before you can even get a two count, you aren't going to do very well. Too many penalties as mentioned and frankly, the secondary wasn't very good for our D either. The one place where I would say we did look good was on the run defense. Bombers completely stopped up for most of the night on the run.

Loved it when after three elections to take a kick off after a FG and did no better than the 25, they finally started electing to take ball at 35. Good thinking finally boys.

The part that bites most IMO is that this was an important game. A chance to prove at home that they could compete with a better team in the league and take a crucial 2 points. Simply put, they weren't up to it and looked horrible overall. The offense was disorganized, ineffective and looked bad. Eventually the D started to look dispirited and disinterested as well. The energy that should have been their in abundance wasn't anywhere and every time the O screwed the pooch, it drained what little there was out of the whole stadium. It was an embarrassment as a fan to watch this performance and if there are a few more, I think Benny is in for a long and anxious season looking over his shoulder.

[leo4life]

Well wriiten post Sir Purrcival...sorry you had the pleasure of being in attendance LOL....time for Dorazio and Mcmann to retire....same OL issues over and over again and with Chap and Wally no longer coaching you can see the common denominater thats still coaching the OL...Chap must be LMAO...also wait till Lions see Mr.Stubler next week;)

[swervynmerv]

Well wriiten post Sir Purrcival...sorry you had the pleasure of being in attendance LOL....time for Dorazio and Mcmann to retire....same OL issues over and over again and with Chap and Wally no longer coaching you can see the common denominater thats still coaching the OL...Chap must be LMAO...also wait till Lions see Mr.Stubler next week;)

I agree completely. This O-line issue has been going on since at least 07. Dickenson, Pierce, Printers, Lulay and now Glenn have all taken their turn getting beat up or running for their lives.

The coaching is part of the problem, it's the same guy for years and the results are the same. Wally has to take his part to in the personnel department. Dean Valli has been an issue for years. Why hasn't he been replaced?
Matt Norman is young and getting chewed up this year, I can't remember but center may not even be his natural position. We are dressing 2 more Canadians than the required amount. Could we not find an international or veteran center in the off season knowing that Angus Reid was more than likely to retire?

[B.C.FAN]

The Bombers were full value for the win. They beat the Lions on offence, defence, special teams and coaching. Any momentum the Lions got was lost to turnovers and bad play calls. The Glenn interception on the opening drive of the second half was the turning point. The Lions came out strong and mixed up their play-calling, only to have Glenn make a dreadful throw in scoring position. That has happened too often this season, each time resulting in a Lions loss.

The main difference between the teams, other than costly turnvers and penalties, was the play of the quarterbacks and receivers. The Lions just couldn't cover Nick Moore. It didn't matter whether it was Cord Parks, Dante Marsh or Josh Johnson. Moore would run 10 yards, make his cut and the ball would be in his hands. They ran the same square-in all night and he ended up with 7 catches for 99 yards. Clarence Denmark enjoyed similar success, often lined up beside Moore on the wide side of the field, finishing with 4 catches for 66 yards. That's 2 players who accounted for nearly 60% of the Bomber offence, and the Lions didn't do anything special to stop them. The Bombers seemed to know what the Lions were doing defensively and kept hitting receivers in space. The Lions kept trying to blitz their linebackers up the middle but couldn't get to the QB, leaving the DBs with no help against Moore and Denmark. The only touchdown of the game came on a flare pass to Denmark when Josh Johnson blitzed from the wide side, leaving two Bombers to block two Lion defenders and allowing Denmark to read the blocks and scamper 37 yards for the back-breaking TD.

On the other side of the ball, the Lion receivers couldn't get open in man coverage. The Bombers keyed on Arceneaux and no one else stepped up. Courtney Taylor and Shawn Gore had a few nice catch-and-run plays but the wideout spots are dead zones for the Lions. Ernest Jackson looks slow, even when he catches the ball in flight, and had a costly fumble. On the other side of the field, Marco Iannuzzi didn't have a catch in his season debut, just like Kito Poblah in two of the four games he started.

I felt sorry for Glenn and Beck to an extent because they'd go to their first and second reads and not find anyone open. That led to sacks and desperation throws with bad results. The main success the Lions enjoyed came against zone coverage in the second half when the Bombers played more conservatively. Kudos to Gary Etcheverry for a good game plan that nullified what the Lions had done successfully against Saskatchewan and Montreal. Andrew Harris said on the postgame show that the Lions had the same gameplan as in the past two weeks. Obviously, the Bombers were prepared for it. I thought the Lions had good production on first down for most of the game, especially when they ran double tights, but they had trouble converting on second down. Twice they handed the ball off five yards deep in the shotgun on second and one with a single-back set and Glenn at QB. They were lucky to only be stuffed once in that situation.

Special teams were dreadful again. Tim Brown didn't have a chance. Anything he did was nullified by penalty. Throughout the first half the Lions opted to receive after Winnipeg field goals, only to be stopped inside their 30. They got the hint and opted to scrimmage from the 35 in the second half.

Kudos to Solomon Elimimian for being a rare bright spot for the Lions with 12 tackles. Alex Bazzie also continues to show improvement, with 4 tackles and 2 sacks. The B.C. defence bent but didn't break apart from the Denmark TD, which was just a great play call. On this day, it didn't matter what the defence did. There was no offensive support and the defence didn't make enough big plays to turn the tide.

[TheLionKing]

Totally disgusted with the Lions' performance. Paid good money to see them play and they came up with this pathetic effort.

Lions weren't ready to play .... again. Haven't we seen this before ?

Dean Valli is Dean Valli - one illegal procedure and 2 holding penalties

Kevin Glenn - those two interceptions were totally inexcusable. He need to throw the football away if the play isn't there instead of taking the sack.

Too many stupid penalties.

The book is out on the Lions - bring pressure, pressure and more pressure.

Lions losing field position all night - McCallum doesn't have the legs to punt anymore.

[WestCoastJoe]

Terrific review, BCF. You see so much detail.

O'Shea is getting great work from Etcheverry and Bellefeuille. And O'Shea seems very much on top of the action. He is intense, but very balanced. He is pushing the right buttons. I didn't see Edmonton beat the Bombers, but Jones must have had great game plans on O and D. Two great new Head Coaches in the league. Campbell is off to a good start also.

[leo4life]

Agree with your post LionKing...had a feeling the Bombers would come to play after getting smaked around 26-3 vs Edmonton....Lions were riding high after last week maybe took them lightly and were badly outcoached on all 3 phases once again

[MexicoLionFan]

"The Lion's players need to execute out there"..."the players have to make plays"...the OLine was a disaster and Bombers poured through the dyke at will"..."our LBs did a lousy job at blitzing"..."our DLine had pressure but get the sack"...our receivers need to get open"..."our QB has lost it due to age"...

It goes on, and On, and ON...

Enough with this bullcrap...the Lions possess BETTER THAN AVERAGE TALENT in the CFL. The players are NOT the problem. Yes, they are a SYMPTOM of the problem, and fail in key moments, because, and this is the key, THAT IS WHAT THEY EXPECT TO DO!!! Coacing, Coaching, COACHING!!!

Remember after last week's game I was one of the few who said that the offence deserved few pats on the back because their O game plan was weak and unnecessarily risky??? The Lions O versus MTL was LUCKY to have put up the points they did...Kevin Glenn could have EASILY thrown 5 INTs vs MTL if the MTL defenders simply made plays on the ball, as they should have, instead of letting Arceneaux come back and out jump them for the ball...that's NOT a great passing game...that's basketball and it comes with a huge downside.

So far this season Kevin Glenn cannot simply drop 5 steps back in the pocket and deliver an ACCURATE pass to an open receiver...so who's to blame??? Huh? You really want to dump this on Kevin Glen who has thrown for over 40,000 yards, and is know as one of the MOST ACCURATE passers in CFL history? Or its the fault of the receivers...you want me to seriously believe that the total professional Courtney Taylor doesn't know how to run an out or a hook, or a crossing pattern? And I am not going to waste my time worrying about why Iannuzzi starts ahead of Kito "Ima futucha halla famnah" Poblah, or that Adekolu doesn't dress...Glenn hasn't shown the arm to throw to the wide side of the field and he isn't afforded the time. Usain Bolt could start out there and it wouldn't make a difference. Coaching, Coaching, COACHING!!!

How is it that our OLine looked so good last week allowing similar mayhem to Glenn and look "awful" last night doing the same thing??? Its merely perspective...we won, so all is forgiven. I said after the MTL game that OC Jones should have been admonished for leaving rookie Hunter Steward (coming off an injury to his knee AND playing in his 1st ever pro game as a starter) all alone out there at LT...but there was only silence here because we won. As I mentioned at the beginning of the season, Wins and Losses at this stage are secondary to "structural integrity"...how is the offence designed, and are we not generating W's because we can't or are we just not finding all those OPEN spaces? On Defence, are we setup to disrupt offences and not let them dictate their will upon us? S Ts, are simply missing an isolated assignment or having to cleanup the odd penalty before we start consistently breaking big gains? If guys are finding open space on offence, its only a matter of time before everyone gets on the same page and EXECUTES to lots of W's...on Defence, if we are creating lots of pressure against offences, but just aren't making the key plays when we have them (a sack, recovering a fumble, not dropping an INT that would have been a quick 6) its only a matter of time before we all get on the same page and start executing to W's. On S Ts, if we have lots of open lanes, and one time its the returner who missed the gaping tunnel or we took a needless penalty, its only a matter of time before...you get the picture. But this ISN'T happening.

We are 2-3 but we would be WAY BETTER OFF at 0=5...Kind of weird to say that, but nonetheless it is true. At 2-3, all we need to do is focus a little more, adjust our chin straps, start making tackles, blah, Blah, BLAH! At 0-5 its PANIC TIME, and then massive changes are forced upon a team...in 2011 when we won the Cup, were were 0-5 and 1=6...this forced Wally into THREATENING his coordinators to make WHOLESALE changes or they would be fired. They did, and we dominated the rest of the way and won the GC...when we were 0-5 that year, I remember most of you here saying that our talent was no longer the best in the league and that our guys needed to EXECUTE. From a personnel perspective, all Wally did was add the experienced Arland Bruce. Yep, that was our problem all along...not the coaches.

Its incredible that I need to point this out in detail week after week, when it is PAINFULLY OBVIOUS to see...the Lions are OUT COACHED consistently. We beat a GOD AWFUL SSK team in SSK to get win 1. Many of you here said you had never seen a home CFL team play that bad in decades...we got our 2nd win against a HORRID MTL offence...perhaps the worst offensive showing in the CFL in 20 years. We won, not because of the things we were doing per se, rather through the massive deficiencies of our opponents. I said going into this week, this was a key game for the Lions because we were facing a WELL COACHED football team. EDM, CGY, WPG, SSK, TOR, HAM...they all have outstanding coaching staffs...MTL is in chaos and we are 1-1 against them...OTT is just beginning and they already have a better OFFENCE than ours and they have a group of castoffs to work with. Do any of you actually think that OTT offensive is better than ours because of talent??? Because our players just need to start focusing and execute??? Excuse me while I puke.

Our Offensive Line has a ton of talent on it including the best OLineman in the league. Talent or ability is NOT the problem with our OLine. Why is it that Matthew Albright (a liability for us as TE in our jumbo formations) can start in OTT and they have a better offence than ours? How is it that Justin Sorenson can go from not getting ANY PLAYING TIME here to being the starting centre in WPG? And in games we played against him, WPG ran all over us!!! Enough with these short sighted comments that our OLine is a disgrace, is in disarray, etc...they're fine...Steward, Fabien, Norman, Olafoye...a good nucleus...I told you during the off season that Dean Valli was no more than a good backup OLineman...he's NOT a starter any longer in the CFL, and yet he's still starting...a few of you have taken shots at Matt Norman...show me a CFL Centre that is struggling and I will show you weak Guard play. Last week Valli did a decent job and Fabien was excellent...Norman had a great game...this week Valli was a complete mess (not even including his penalties) and suddenly Norman isn't a true centre and he's our problem.

Did any of you notice that WPGs D did NOT start the game by zero blitzing our offence? Nope...O'Shea and Co. were wary of our weapons, and did a good job of watching Arceneaux and trying to account for our RBs...but WE, US, our COACHES, KHARI JONES, played right into O'Shea's hands and made things so EASY for WPG. We ran the ball well on first down...then guess what, we can't call a play that works on 2nd and short...all season long...on first down we run a quick hitter up the middle for 8 yards...but on 2nd and 1 or 2, we run a slow developing, lateral run play that plays right into WPG's gap cancellation defence. So then Jones became PREDICTABLE...run or throw short passes on first down, and then ALWAYS PASS on 2nd down...now, even I can figure out that its "safe" to blitz on 2nd down...and guess what, it worked...and it was FUN! So you know what, let's ESCALATE this fun...and let's not just blitz 2 LBs...let's bring the safety as well...let's blitz with our CB...heck, let's give the team mascot a chance, or one of the cheerleaders, this is FUN!

And where were our adjustments? Non existent...Why did we get into this situation in the first place? Yep, that lazy good for nothing Harris can't get 2 yards on 2nd and short with 5 defenders hanging off his back...yep, you are right...players need to execute!

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like I am taking crazy pills (said Mugatu)!

Again, the players are not the problem, not even our OLine...its the coaches plain and simple. Our players right now are making the wrong read, because they expect to f$ck up...they miss a tackle (like LaRose) because that's what they've always done...there are no consequences...now what would happen to a guy like LaRose (missed assignment, poor reads, missed tackles, out of position) on a team coached by Chris Jones, Mike O'Shea or John Hufnagel? But only in BC does this gong show continue for almost a decade.

Mike O'Shea is a great coach. He has his teams (O, D and S Ts) all well prepared. He makes mini adjustments after each series based on what the opposition is doing. He holds his assistants and his players accountable for mental mistakes...he stays calm, he observes what's going on around him and he gets his message across quickly and effectively...WPG is a well coached team...and the bottom line is this, they won 23-6 in BC because they are a well coached team and we lost at home, against a team with a ton of injuries and a back up kicker, because we are a team that doesn't have the clearest notion of how to dictate our will on the opposition. We do the same old, same old week and week and watch in amazement as it continues not to work...now tha't Einstein's definition of insanity at work powerfully.

Joe asked if we are a playoff team at 2-3...our 2 wins were CHARITY...we aren't close to playoff team...and when we meet well coached teams like EDM, CGY, WPG, TOR and HAM in THEIR stadiums? Then you will see just how badly our team is coached. You already got a glimpse in MTL against a VERY pisspoor MTL offence.

And I will finish by saying this, there is NOTHING wrong with our talent in BC...we have enough talent to win a Cup...and Lulay's return will make a ZERO difference if we don't change coaching...it will simply be Lulay taking the pounding and not the "old" Kevin Glenn.

[DanoT]

Ectchevery out coached the rookie OC Jones for sure. No big surprise as there are bound to be some growing pains and missed steps as both the OC and DC gain some experience. We just need to be patient because firing them won't gain anything.

The ST coaching is a different matter imo. Maybe it is time for Benny to fire the ST coach and take over that job himself.

[Blitz]

Our Leos came up with a horrible offensive performance against the Bombers and didn't even score a touchdown, our defense bent but held the fort long enough for our offence to get going but it didn't, and our special teams were anything but special. Fan excitement for this 2014 edition of the B.C. Lions, in this Grey Cup hosting season, is quickly dwindling with two home losses, and we look to be in troubled times.

Sports writers once again take a simplistic approach when they reviewed the game - Kevin Glenn turned the football over, too many penalties as well, and therefore our Leos lost. Benevedes post game comments regarding 'lack of execution and not making plays' are standard fare and for the unkknowldeable football fan, are accepted as truth, especiallly when there is some truth in them. However, those comments do not tell the main story.

Here are some post game comments:

When our Leos dumped Chapdelaine and Stubler at the end of last season I was concerned and made no bones about it. I was less concerned about the dumping of an outstanding defensive coordinator in Stubler because at least we had a young guy in place in Washington who had been mentored by a coach like Dave Ritchie and a coordinator with Stubler's vast experience. But dumpng Chap, without having a new offensive coordinator targeted and ready to accept the position was risky and right now its looking like a mistake.

These are the areas that I see as problematic for a Leos team that, right now, looks anything but a Grey Cup contender but instead is looking like a team that will select high in the 2015 CFL draft.

COACHING

Professional football is chess played with incredibly talented, violent chess pieces. It is the sport in which coaching has the most impact because of the high number of players on the field and the fact that each play stops and the coaching staff can send in a fresh, fully designed play. Other sports have so much flow that the impact of coaching is reduced.

The slide from our 2011 Grey Cup winning season continues. 2013 was less successful than 2012 and 2014 is looking less successful than 2013. The common denominator is Benevedes, who needed Wally to right the offensive ship at the end of 2013 as well as take a more demanding role in terms of overall strategy direction, team culture, and demands for player performance.

Chapdelaine and Stubler were served up as bogy men in 2013. But its becoming obvious that they were not what really ailed us in our quest. Stubler led a record breaking defense in 2012. Chap led our offence to a Grey Cup in 2011 and the best offence in the CFL in 2012, with a new multi-formational, motion, misdirection scheme which hid our offensive blocking woes.

The facts are that our Leos team was terribly flat in the 2012 WDF, played uninspired football, especially on the road in 2013, and lost the Semi-Final that we should have won behind a 200 yard rushing game. This season we look anything but a well-lead, well prepared, and highly disciplined football team in 2014. The difference in Head Coaching showed again last night. Mike O'Shea, a rookie Head Coach had his squad much better prepared as did Chris Jones in our season opener.

Quite frankly Benevedes did not have the resume or the requisites or the presence for the job. He was handed the job on a gold (not silver) platter and the tarnish is staring to show more and more.

Khari Jones had a game against Winnipeg that still has me shaking my head, as did his game plans for our first two games of the season. Chapdelaine usually went with a double tight end formation on first down and the spread on second down. With the new blocking scheme with 6 games to go (unheard of in pro football) at the conclusion of last season, the addition of Logan, and a revitalized Harris, we went double tights the majority of the time on both first and second down and rushed for over 200 yards per game average at the conclusion of 2013.

With the ability to fully implement the new blocking scheme for an entire training camp and the ability to plan for both Logan and Harris for full season it was expected that our offence would come out this season with power formations, establish a dominant running attack as the backbone of our offence, and then use utilize the quick release Glenn for shorter second down pass plays.

So what did we do? Khari Jones started the season using the spread offence rather than power formations and favored passing the football. We know how that works. Defenses blitz us, Dorazio has no clue how to teach offensive lineman to pick up blitzes and stunts, we had a new offensive left tackle left on an island, and our quarterback had no time to throw and got killed.

By Game 3 it seemed that we were figuring it out somewhat. We ran more power sets and ran the football more. Harris came alive, Logan was dangerous. Glenn had more time at times. In Game 4, against Montreal, we used even more double tight end formations and ran the football well. We still struggled with stunts and blitzes but the strategy worked.

So what do we do against Winnipeg. We come out mostly in the spread, trying to pass the football against blites and stunts, our offensive lineman can't pick up the stunts and blitzes (but Winnipeg sure picked up our blitzes and stunts), Glenn was under seige, sacked 6 times and could have been sacked 12 easily). We didn't establish the run and our offence looked completely out of sync.

Kevin Glenn showed, against Montreal, how effective he can be with a solid running attack and not having to throw on second and long. Glenn showed what could do, behind a solid running attack in Calgary. But Glenn is not a quarterback who can overcome a defense that is in his face all game, with little or no time to throw. He is a smart quarterback in terms of pocket presence but he is not a quarterback who can make plays with his legs. While Travis Lulay would be able to escape some of the blitzes Glenn has not been able to, Lulay would also be having his struggles right now if he was playing.

Glenn, quite frankly looks punch drunk from the pressure and hits he has been taking since our home opener and is making uncharacteristic mistakes due to it. Its probably a good thing its Glenn taking this pounding until we can get it figured out, rather than risking the long term career of Lulay.

Our ofensive line has been a problem that Chap was stuck with and Jones has inherited. Even in 2004 with an MOP season from Printers, in 2005, with an 11 game win streak with Dickenson at the controls, and a 2006 Grey Cup winning season with an incredibly talented offensive line, our quarterbacks have been under seige. We led the CFL in getting our quarwerback sacked in those successful seasons.

The fact is that we have always had a very difficult time with stunts and blitzes since Dorazio has been here. Last night defenders came completely free, time and time again, with clear, uninpeded shots at the quarterback. Often our quarterback had less than two seconds to throw. Glenn, a quick release quarterback was sacked 6 times and could have been sacked 12 times. He is not mobile but he has very good pocket presence. The relentless pressure, hits, and sacks he has taken is breaking him down mentally.

Why we did not go double tights, run the football right at Winnipeg, whose run defense has not been terrific is beyond me. Why we chose to go spread, including a lot of empty backfield, is shocking, especially with as much inexperience on the left side of the offensive line is more than surprising but also stupid. Chap took the heat when our rushing attack struggled but the truth is that, when our running attack was succesful, it was mostly due to formation,scheme, misirection, or the talent of the tailback. Darazio does not teach run blocking well and his pass blocking scheme is on the planet Pluto. Penalties on our offensive lineman added to the misery.

Jones had better figure out, as Chap eventually had to, that you have to go with double tights or move the pocket, or use misdirection to get our offence to overcome Dorazio's inability to get the job done.

Our defense played welll enough for long enough for our offence to get going. But our stunts and blitzes were picked up too easily, too often, by Winnipeg and it exposed us underneath. We also struggled agaisnt the run at times and we have with or without Khalif Mitchell.

A boost from special teams would have helped but that is like a shot in the dark under the mediocre, uninspring McMann and and a different return man didn't make any difference. The blocks are not there and we also were lucky to have a speical teams return touchdown called back by penalty.

Benevedes, Jones, Dorazio, and McMann right now are not getting the job done. Harris was rolling and we didn't use hin properly. We hung Glenn out for the wolves to eat again and the cracks are showing more and more. A rookie Head Coach brought a team into B.C. Place and made Benevedes look like the rookie. Nick Moore showed what he could be doing for us in a Lions uniform.

Execution may be a factor but our Leos team is being badly outcoached. Our talent level is much better than the score indicated and we were playing at home. Glenn is a much better quarterback than he is looks right now. Logan is not being used well. Harris, when we use him properly, also looks great, but we've only done that in 2 out of 5 games. We don't have the time to get the football to our wide receivers and teams are over playing the inside of our passing attack.

This has got to get fixed and the answer is a hell of a lot more than 'exection' and 'making plays'. In this game, as with our other two losses, we did not create the type of game plan, that allowed our players to make plays.

A very disappointing loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SammyGreene]

Ugh. Go to Europe for 2 weeks and come back yesterday to that. Lions shutout at home in the 2nd half for the second time in three games this season!!!! Want to keep fans away and intent on staying at home in front of their HD TVs? Just keep serving up turkeys like that.

Greatest concern has to be being absolutely dominated at home by a divisional rival. Lions have managed to make Glenn look like an aging QB on the downside of his career yet he flourished in Calgary's system and I thought was easily the Stamps best QB the last few seasons. What gives?

Some fantastic points brought up on this forum as always. Dorazio is the architect behind a often porous offensive line that has hard time keeping players healthy or even in town. McMann's special teams unit was deplorable once again. Badly outplayed and far too many penalties. Yes, almost laughable watching the Lions elect to receive kickoff after a FG yet struggle just to get out to the 30.

Scary to think the supposed strength of this team's Canadian content is at receiver yet other than a few flashes from Shaun Gore these guys aren't even close to the Clermonts, Thelwell and Jacksons of the past. As BC FAN pointed out our receivers had trouble getting opening all night and Nick Moore made it look easy all over the field.

The 2-3 record feels a lot worse given just how poor the Lions looked in three of those games, including two in a stadium that use to be tough on opponents.

[swervynmerv]

"

...a few of you have taken shots at Matt Norman...show me a CFL Centre that is struggling and I will show you weak Guard play.

I agree completely. This O-line issue has been going on since at least 07. Dickenson, Pierce, Printers, Lulay and now Glenn have all taken their turn getting beat up or running for their lives.
The coaching is part of the problem, it's the same guy for years and the results are the same. Wally has to take his part to in the personnel department. Dean Valli has been an issue for years. Why hasn't he been replaced?
Matt Norman is young and getting chewed up this year, I can't remember but center may not even be his natural position. We are dressing 2 more Canadians than the required amount. Could we not find an international or veteran center in the off season knowing that Angus Reid was more than likely to retire?

MLK as always, I appreaciate your passion and insight. I can hear your frustration through the computer screen, but in it you may be missing the point I was trying to make. I wasn't saying that Norman is a poor player or that it is all his fault; rather, you have a player that at times has been struggling to learn one of the toughest positions in the game. I checked and Norman is listed as a guard and was drafted as one. In his first year with the Leos when he played half the year, he was a guard. Last year due to the injury to Angus Reid, he had to take over in a position that Angus himself has called the toughest on the field other than the QB.

We have drafted well as of late and Fabien, Hunter and Norman have shown the potential to be a great O-Line in the future. The problem is that between them, they have played less than 30-35 games in the CFL and Norman, the majority of those. Young guys are gonna make mistakes and have games where their play is up and down. Wally should have known that there would be growing pains as their always is, and brought in a veteran to help groom Norman at that position.

You are bang on with Dean Valli!! Why is he starting? How many years does it take to see that he is no better than a back-up? If I, with my limited football IQ can see it, why can't future Hall of Famer Wally?

Coaching, absolutely, it's been the same guy with different personnel for years; however, I put a lot of the the blame for this on Wally. His loyalty has blinded him to the coaching issue on the O-line but he had all off-season to bring in some offensive line help to shore up the line while the youngsters learn the position.

I made a comment in the game day thread that I still hold too and that is I believe our coaching to be in the bottom third of the CFL, at this time, maybe only the Alouettes with Tom(Ned Flanders) Higgins at the helm have worse coaching.

Blitz makes an excellent point in that we are getting worse over the last three years. I questioned when Benevides got the contract extension early and I still do today. If the Lions fall to 2-4 next week, that would be a time that I would look at replacing Benny. This won't happen of course because Wally is too loyal to a guy who at best is more qualified to be a coordinator than run the entire ship. Any success the Lions have this year IMHO will inspite of Benny, not because of him.

I also made the comment about not knowing what kind of team we have until Travis comes back and the reason is not specifically talent or coaching related; rather, what Travis brings to the football field in leadership and confidence, some may even call it swagger.

Travis Lulay is a "leader" ! You see it in his eyes in the huddle and every time he steps on the field. Glenn has great stats over his admirable career, but he just doesn't have the same prescence that Travis has, he is a different kind of player. When down last night by 14 points I didn't have the feeling that the Lions had a chance to come back. When Travis is in there, as long as there is enough time on the clock, I always think we have a chance to come back and win.

[WestCoastJoe]

Great stuff, Guys.

MLF and Blitz, I always appreciate your insights, your passion, and your love of our team. First thing I did on waking up this morning was to look for your posts.

We might be looking at a shipwreck season. But it seems the coaching in this small league kind of evens out at some point each year. We belatedly make adjustments. Our players figure out how to make our systems work. Put two big guys in the ring, one crafty and one green, and if the experience doesn't kill the young one, he figures some things out. He figures out how to keep his coach happy, but also how to get the job done, sometimes despite the coach.

BCF indicated how Andrew Harris said post game how we used the same game plan as we used the last two games. That will not cut it in this league. Generic game plans get eaten alive. How can Khari or Mark W come up with detailed tweaks for each opponent? Well the Winnipeg staff did it to us. O'Shea, Etcheverry and Bellefeuille did it to us. They sliced us up. They focus on tendencies. They plan as if we might do such and such. If so, here is what could work against it. As noted on here many times, it is a chess match out there. That is coaching. One gets the impression that we don't know how the Knight moves, let alone how to attack the castled King, or how to defend against the Ruy Lopez attack.

O Line schmozzle? Been beaten to death on here for years. Shocking nevertheless to see the entire O Line slant hard left, and leave Bryant a clear run at sitting Kevin Glenn. Comical. Sad. Jones and Dorazio have to work seamlessly together. But there is one constant there, with our O Line foibles over the years, and it ain't Khari. God Bless Dean Valli, but he is the one and only present national O Line product of the teaching of Dan Dorazio for the years 2003 up to the arrival of Fabien and Norman. And these two talented players are looking far beneath their talent level in a chaotic O Line.

There is a chance that we will right the ship a bit. As I noted above, it seems the coaching levels out a bit as the year moves on. The coaches figure some stuff out. The players figure out how to survive within their systems. But the problem for us is that we face very sharp, strategic and tactical coaches most weeks. If we can not match their creativity we will get embarrassed. We have seen that. Noel Thorpe sliced us up with his D first game against Montreal. Etcheverry sliced us up. Bellefeuille had a very nice game plan to get receivers open.

In their meeting rooms, are the opposing coaches fretting a bit in planning against us? Uh oh, we have to be sharp against these guys. They will find some vulnerabilities, and they will exploit them. Ummm ... No. O'Shea saw that Chris Jones had found weaknesses in his team. O'Shea and his staff found weaknesses in our setups.

[Rammer]

Ugh. Go to Europe for 2 weeks and come back yesterday to that. Lions shutout at home in the 2nd half for the second time in three games this season!!!! Want to keep fans away and intent on staying at home in front of their HD TVs? Just keep serving up turkeys like that.

Greatest concern has to be being absolutely dominated at home by a divisional rival. Lions have managed to make Glenn look like an aging QB on the downside of his career yet he flourished in Calgary's system and I thought was easily the Stamps best QB the last few seasons. What gives?

Some fantastic points brought up on this forum as always. Dorazio is the architect behind a often porous offensive line that has hard time keeping players healthy or even in town. McMann's special teams unit was deplorable once again. Badly outplayed and far too many penalties. Yes, almost laughable watching the Lions elect to receive kickoff after a FG yet struggle just to get out to the 30.

Scary to think the supposed strength of this team's Canadian content is at receiver yet other than a few flashes from Shaun Gore these guys aren't even close to the Clermonts, Thelwell and Jacksons of the past. As BC FAN pointed out our receivers had trouble getting opening all night and Nick Moore made it look easy all over the field.

The 2-3 record feels a lot worse given just how poor the Lions looked in three of those games, including two in a stadium that use to be tough on opponents.

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide, are the BC Lions of 2014. Iannuzzi in, saw two balls come his way that IR, made decent efforts on both, without results. The aired out ball to Gore for the INT was a rookie QB decision and there were many by Glenn on tonights game. As we have always seen from Glenn, bring the pressure and he is more than happy to allow someone else take the hit by tossing the ball away, often into locations that have zero chance of being caught by a Lion, but hig chances of being caught by the opposition. He knows that the Bombers are a team that can get after the QB, and he never looked comfortable from the get go. Too bad that he has the Lions OL in front of him, because he needs the Rider type OL that can give him that extra second or two. On the first half drive that Glenn moved the team to the 3 yard line, and on second down he lobs up a sure INT, except that he over shot Arceneaux on the play, had he been on target, it was another pick in the endzone drive killer. Last word on Glenn, Ottawa would have never won a game with his turtle approach to the QB position, they made a wise decision going with Burris.

Dean Valli, the most experienced OL must wonder why he remains a starter. Darrazio must like his 'good looking girth', because way too often he is beaten or called for holding, along with the occasional procedure. With Steward now starting at the tackle position, the Lions should consider finding an International to play right guard, starting 9 N's didn't cut it for the Lions last night. Combine that with another International at the safety position and the Lions might be using the allowances that other teams are taking advantage of. LaRose IR didn't account for one stop last night, and the only time I saw him involved in a play, he shot right by the receiver for a 29 yard gain, completely wiffing as he went by. Time to upgrad in both these positioins. All this doesn't leave Dorazzio off the hook, in the second half last night on numerous plays the DE position came completely untouched, how does that happen? At first I thought it was a missed assignment, but after the second and third time, the scheme has no hope of blocking him and Glenn has the foot speed of a turtle, so why isolate him to beat the guy, let alone the heart to face him.

Thankfully the Bombers were missing two starting defensive stars, because I can't imagine this O looking much worse than they were last night. Geroy may as well give up the Coaching aspect, his pre-game speech fell on deaf ears, or nobody wanted any part of it.

Not sure that Benevides has toned down his chest bumping, because even he had no reason to force that energy into the bench.

Sorry, I didn't really read anyone's posts, so if I am repeating that is the reason. Just wanted to do my venting, because otherwise I may want to explode at some point with this team.

[sj-roc]

Thankfully the Bombers were missing two starting defensive stars, because I can't imagine this O looking much worse than they were last night.

Our worst offensive outing at home, points-wise at least, since a 34-6 loss to Cgy in 1987. That was the last one before they fired Matthews.