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korey&dante4ever
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I would love to see a rule where you have to start a minimum of 3 nationals on defense. That's the only way of fixing this mess of QB's getting killed every game, and 2 and outs from here to Tokyo. The offensive ineptitude in this league right now is going to kill fanbases across the country. It's nothing short of tragic right now.

How many teams in this league can say their o-line is better than their d-line? I can count MAYBE 1. Sask
How many teams in this league can say their receiving corps is better than their secondary?

Need a ratio rule for defenses. ASAP.
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.
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Ravi
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Jim Mullin wrote:The CFL is a defensively dominated league.

a.) CFL coaches are stacking imports errr.... internationals on defence. Calgary actually toyed with the idea of going with an all-import defence in training camp this year.
b.) With fewer non-imports starting, (remember when there were ten?) there are no longer matchups and mismatches on each side of the ball.
c.) The CFL roster has expanded twice since 2007. Both time coaches have used that opening for defensive situational import players for the most part. Both times rosters expanded, scoring went down (special team yards have also plummeted). Edmonton actually dressed six import linebackers in a game this year.
d.) With the versatility within rosters, it is now the defence which can give you several different looks. Offences in this league lacks the imagination of a generation past. They manage games almost timidly while defences pin their ears back.

Either increase the numbers for non-import starters, or banish it altogether. If you up the number, offenses will balance against defensive depth. If you abolish it, then you are dealing with an even player pool of depth.

The problem isn't the level of front line Canadian who start versus imports. It's stacking our guys on one side of the ball with limited depth, which limits options when faced with defences who start 9, 10 and 11 imports... with import backups and situational players.

Owners, coaches and GMs need a reminder that they are in the entertainment business even before the winning business. Pinning the blame on officials for the shortcomings of execution, offensive inventiveness and mismanagement of a roster that worked would be off base.

Scoring is down more than 4 points a game from last year, and 10 points from two years ago. This is management's problem which they could have fixed (along with the inept Players Association) in the CBA but they actually made the product worse. Any talk about "wide open Canadian ball" should be reserved for early season CIS where, in the west teams were combining for an average of 1,020 yards per game and the average score was 43-35 through the first five weeks of 2013. What the CFL is providing now, will drive people to other forms of entertainment.
Bing, bing, bing, Jim has nailed it here. I don't want to see QBs merely manage games. I want to see QBs win games as should be happening in this league. I also would be very concerned about attendance in B.C. It truly is time for David Braley to sell both of his franchises and run off into the sunset because the Argos are a mess off the field while the Lions are, at best, stagnating. What happens next year in B.C. when it is a non-Grey Cup-hosting year and if the Lions end up having a mediocre season this year? Could we see sub-20k crowds in B.C. again soon?
dupsdell1
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Bing, bing, bing, Jim has nailed it here. I don't want to see QBs merely manage games. I want to see QBs win games as should be happening in this league. I also would be very concerned about attendance in B.C. It truly is time for David Braley to sell both of his franchises and run off into the sunset because the Argos are a mess off the field while the Lions are, at best, stagnating. What happens next year in B.C. when it is a non-Grey Cup-hosting year and if the Lions end up having a mediocre season this year? Could we see sub-20k crowds in B.C. again soon?


Yes that is what is going to happen ALL THAT WORK ACKLES DID WILL GO TO WAIST AND I SEE IT HAPPENING KNOW.

IF THIS GAME WAS IN THE BOB ACKLES ARA THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN 35-40 K THERE TONIGHT.
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Ravi
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dupsdell1 wrote:Yes that is what is going to happen ALL THAT WORK ACKLES DID WILL GO TO WAIST AND I SEE IT HAPPENING KNOW.

IF THIS GAME WAS IN THE BOB ACKLES ARA THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN 35-40 K THERE TONIGHT.
Braley was incredibly fortunate that Ackles came back as the Lions were spinning their wheels during the first five years (1997-2001) of Braley's ownership. Ackles said that he cried after the home opener in 2002 when only 15k showed up and he could not believe how far the franchise had fallen. He did such outstanding work rebuilding the fanbase but Braley has gradually frittered it away, along with one of the best stadiums in North America, since Ackles' untimely death. Only a little more than 25k for Geroy Simon night along with a small season ticket base (15k from what I have read on here) in a Grey Cup-hosting year speak volumes about what is going on in B.C. these days.
dupsdell1
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Yes I agree it is like taking a very successful business and drowning it down the tubes BRAILY has hung on to long , he has practically killed Toronto, if the CFL does not ask him to sell these 2 teams there is going to be no CFL in our near future because both Toronto and BC will be gone
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sj-roc
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dupsdell1 wrote:Yes I agree it is like taking a very successful business and drowning it down the tubes BRAILY has hung on to long , he has practically killed Toronto, if the CFL does not ask him to sell these 2 teams there is going to be no CFL in our near future because both Toronto and BC will be gone
Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
dupsdell1
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Ok then so he wants to get out of it at the end of next year ? well what happens if he drives the lions into the ground by then which is what he is going to do,, we can all see his heart and soul is not into this anymore.
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Ravi
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sj-roc wrote:
dupsdell1 wrote:Yes I agree it is like taking a very successful business and drowning it down the tubes BRAILY has hung on to long , he has practically killed Toronto, if the CFL does not ask him to sell these 2 teams there is going to be no CFL in our near future because both Toronto and BC will be gone
Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) has reportedly offered Braley $10 million for the Argos but Braley is asking for a percentage of revenues from future Grey Cups as well. That seems to be the stumbling block to getting a deal done in Toronto. Yes, the Argos have had their problems over the years but things have gotten to an entirely new (and low) level this season with fewer than 10k actually in the seats for the Argos' last home game. Braley is reportedly running the franchise on a shoestring budget now and it shows. On top of that, he raised ticket prices significantly this past off-season (sound familiar?) which has contributed to the lowest attendance numbers in Toronto in over a decade.
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Rammer
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Ravi wrote:
sj-roc wrote:
dupsdell1 wrote:Yes I agree it is like taking a very successful business and drowning it down the tubes BRAILY has hung on to long , he has practically killed Toronto, if the CFL does not ask him to sell these 2 teams there is going to be no CFL in our near future because both Toronto and BC will be gone
Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) has reportedly offered Braley $10 million for the Argos but Braley is asking for a percentage of revenues from future Grey Cups as well. That seems to be the stumbling block to getting a deal done in Toronto. Yes, the Argos have had their problems over the years but things have gotten to an entirely new (and low) level this season with fewer than 10k actually in the seats for the Argos' last home game. Braley is reportedly running the franchise on a shoestring budget now and it shows. On top of that, he raised ticket prices significantly this past off-season (sound familiar?) which has contributed to the lowest attendance numbers in Toronto in over a decade.
You have to wonder about Braley's reputation as being the CFL saviour if that is the case. Ravi do you know what Braley paid for the Argos? To me, he hasn't missed many franchise purchases that didn't have a GC hosting within the year he bought the franchise or the next GC. That pays off a ton of the debt of a team, leaving little risk on Braley's behalf, especially if he can create some revenue improvements. With all his money, he seems to have a rather steep asking price on his franchises he is selling.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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sj-roc
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Ravi wrote:
sj-roc wrote:
dupsdell1 wrote:Yes I agree it is like taking a very successful business and drowning it down the tubes BRAILY has hung on to long , he has practically killed Toronto, if the CFL does not ask him to sell these 2 teams there is going to be no CFL in our near future because both Toronto and BC will be gone
Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) has reportedly offered Braley $10 million for the Argos but Braley is asking for a percentage of revenues from future Grey Cups as well. That seems to be the stumbling block to getting a deal done in Toronto. Yes, the Argos have had their problems over the years but things have gotten to an entirely new (and low) level this season with fewer than 10k actually in the seats for the Argos' last home game. Braley is reportedly running the franchise on a shoestring budget now and it shows. On top of that, he raised ticket prices significantly this past off-season (sound familiar?) which has contributed to the lowest attendance numbers in Toronto in over a decade.
I heard the Argos also let go of their VP Marketing & Communications the other day. I guess that's part of the cost cutting.

Unfortunately it seems the Argos have no Ackles-like personality in the GTA who could turn things around there. Pinball is probably the closest they have to this but I don't know much about his business acumen of if he's merely a goodwill ambassador/figurehead type, though admittedly a very good one if this truly is his role, as you rarely hear about the guy without mention of his strong personal popularity. I feel sorry for him that he toils in an organisation where — at least from my west coast perspective — morale is likely rather low.

AFAIK DB has little to do with the day-to-day running of the Lions and leaves all of this to Skulsky et al. Not sure if this is the case with the Argos where I suppose Chris Rudge would be DS's counterpart.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
TheLionKing
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Ravi wrote:
dupsdell1 wrote:Yes that is what is going to happen ALL THAT WORK ACKLES DID WILL GO TO WAIST AND I SEE IT HAPPENING KNOW.

IF THIS GAME WAS IN THE BOB ACKLES ARA THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN 35-40 K THERE TONIGHT.
Braley was incredibly fortunate that Ackles came back as the Lions were spinning their wheels during the first five years (1997-2001) of Braley's ownership. Ackles said that he cried after the home opener in 2002 when only 15k showed up and he could not believe how far the franchise had fallen. He did such outstanding work rebuilding the fanbase but Braley has gradually frittered it away, along with one of the best stadiums in North America, since Ackles' untimely death. Only a little more than 25k for Geroy Simon night along with a small season ticket base (15k from what I have read on here) in a Grey Cup-hosting year speak volumes about what is going on in B.C. these days.
I think it's unfair to lay all the blame on Braley for the drop in attendance. Braley is a hands off owner and let his hires run the club. If blame is to be handed out I think Dennis Skulsky should shoulder most of the blame. Instead of building up the fan base with lower prices he tries to maximum ticket revenue by increasing prices in sections that were formerly cheaper.
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Ravi
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Rammer wrote:
Ravi wrote:
sj-roc wrote: Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) has reportedly offered Braley $10 million for the Argos but Braley is asking for a percentage of revenues from future Grey Cups as well. That seems to be the stumbling block to getting a deal done in Toronto. Yes, the Argos have had their problems over the years but things have gotten to an entirely new (and low) level this season with fewer than 10k actually in the seats for the Argos' last home game. Braley is reportedly running the franchise on a shoestring budget now and it shows. On top of that, he raised ticket prices significantly this past off-season (sound familiar?) which has contributed to the lowest attendance numbers in Toronto in over a decade.
You have to wonder about Braley's reputation as being the CFL saviour if that is the case. Ravi do you know what Braley paid for the Argos? To me, he hasn't missed many franchise purchases that didn't have a GC hosting within the year he bought the franchise or the next GC. That pays off a ton of the debt of a team, leaving little risk on Braley's behalf, especially if he can create some revenue improvements. With all his money, he seems to have a rather steep asking price on his franchises he is selling.
Braley assumed the Argos' debts but I don't believe he actually paid anything for the franchise otherwise. Of course, this was a somewhat complicated situation as it has come out in recent years that Braley was lending/giving money to the previous owners, Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon, during their ownership of the team which lasted from the end of the 2003 season until the end of the 2009 season.

The other issue in Toronto is that the Argos must vacate what used to be called the SkyDome (I refuse to call it by its corporate name) by the end of the 2017 season as the Jays will be putting in natural grass and want the stadium to themselves. The only place that the Argos can go to is MLSE-run, city-owned BMO Field which must be renovated to hold a Canadian football field.
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Ravi
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sj-roc wrote:
Ravi wrote:
sj-roc wrote: Speaking of Braley, was it just me or did he seem kind of sullen during the GS ceremony tonight?

As for the Argos, I don't know if it's fair to pin all of that on him. I'll defer to Ravi on this but it seems to me they had problems aplenty long before he ever arrived and you'd probably need every miracle in the playbook of Jesus Christ himself to revive their off-field fortunes AFAIC.

As for DB's future as owner, Braley is already long since on record as saying he wants to divest himself of both teams by the time he turns 75 (May 31, 2016). There's been speculation for about a year now that Skulsky is organising a consortium of local businessmen (from the Waterboys group?) to buy the Lions from him when the time comes. As for the Argos I'm not sure whether they have any suitors.
MLSE (Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment) has reportedly offered Braley $10 million for the Argos but Braley is asking for a percentage of revenues from future Grey Cups as well. That seems to be the stumbling block to getting a deal done in Toronto. Yes, the Argos have had their problems over the years but things have gotten to an entirely new (and low) level this season with fewer than 10k actually in the seats for the Argos' last home game. Braley is reportedly running the franchise on a shoestring budget now and it shows. On top of that, he raised ticket prices significantly this past off-season (sound familiar?) which has contributed to the lowest attendance numbers in Toronto in over a decade.
I heard the Argos also let go of their VP Marketing & Communications the other day. I guess that's part of the cost cutting.

Unfortunately it seems the Argos have no Ackles-like personality in the GTA who could turn things around there. Pinball is probably the closest they have to this but I don't know much about his business acumen of if he's merely a goodwill ambassador/figurehead type, though admittedly a very good one if this truly is his role, as you rarely hear about the guy without mention of his strong personal popularity. I feel sorry for him that he toils in an organisation where — at least from my west coast perspective — morale is likely rather low.

AFAIK DB has little to do with the day-to-day running of the Lions and leaves all of this to Skulsky et al. Not sure if this is the case with the Argos where I suppose Chris Rudge would be DS's counterpart.
Braley is rarely seen nor heard when it comes to the Argos. It is quite apparent - and understandable - that the Lions are his one true love. Chris Rudge is the equivalent to Skulsky in Toronto but there have been some rumblings that Rudge and Braley are not seeing eye-to-eye these days. Rudge feels very strongly that the Argos need to be sold to MLSE in order to not only survive but thrive. Pinball is pretty much just a figurehead/ambassador at this point with no influence in either the football or business operations of the team.
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sj-roc
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Rammer wrote:You have to wonder about Braley's reputation as being the CFL saviour if that is the case. Ravi do you know what Braley paid for the Argos? To me, he hasn't missed many franchise purchases that didn't have a GC hosting within the year he bought the franchise or the next GC. That pays off a ton of the debt of a team, leaving little risk on Braley's behalf, especially if he can create some revenue improvements. With all his money, he seems to have a rather steep asking price on his franchises he is selling.
For better or worse I'd call him a saviour by default. I'm pretty sure it's true for the Argos and Lions, and possibly for the Tiger-Cats before them, that at each turn he was the only one willing to step forward to make the purchase. He was out of the picture in Ham by the time they hosted in 1996 but that GC wasn't much of a cash cow anyway, what with the league having to rely on an 11th hour cash infusion from Tim Horton's to cover player game cheques.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Ravi
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sj-roc wrote:
Rammer wrote:You have to wonder about Braley's reputation as being the CFL saviour if that is the case. Ravi do you know what Braley paid for the Argos? To me, he hasn't missed many franchise purchases that didn't have a GC hosting within the year he bought the franchise or the next GC. That pays off a ton of the debt of a team, leaving little risk on Braley's behalf, especially if he can create some revenue improvements. With all his money, he seems to have a rather steep asking price on his franchises he is selling.
For better or worse I'd call him a saviour by default. I'm pretty sure it's true for the Argos and Lions, and possibly for the Tiger-Cats before them, that at each turn he was the only one willing to step forward to make the purchase. He was out of the picture in Ham by the time they hosted in 1996 but that GC wasn't much of a cash cow anyway, what with the league having to rely on an 11th hour cash infusion from Tim Horton's to cover player game cheques.
I am thankful for Braley and what he has done for this league. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I would sum up Braley in this way: If you want someone to save your franchise, he is your man; if you want someone to grow you franchise, he is not your man. I truly believe at this point in the league's evolution that it would be best if Braley steps aside so that the critical Vancouver and Toronto franchises can grow.
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