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sj-roc
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Just an extra note for anyone who was put off by Geroy on Friday. If it makes you feel any better, here's a short video of him from just last December (technically still under his playing contract to the Riders at the time) passing along holiday greetings. Not only does he make no mention of Saskatchewan, he's even wearing..... gasp.... black and orange Lion colours.

[video][/video]
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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WestCoastJoe
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sj-roc wrote:Just an extra note for anyone who was put off by Geroy on Friday. If it makes you feel any better, here's a short video of him from just last December (technically still under his playing contract to the Riders at the time) passing along holiday greetings. Not only does he make no mention of Saskatchewan, he's even wearing..... gasp.... black and orange Lion colours.

[video][/video]
"for anyone who was put off by Geroy on Friday ... "

"If it makes you feel any better ... "

I know you mean well, sj. But people can take your well intentioned words the wrong way. And people can even take Geroy's greeting and sales pitch for his online store the wrong way.

http://www.geroysimon.com/store.html

Geroy in orange! With a Christmas greeting! That should heal all the wounds for those put off by Geroy's words and actions. They should welcome him right back into their hearts.

Just like that. Presto ...
.....................

There is no quick and easy way to win back those fans "put off by Geroy on Friday."

And it mght be best to let those who are disillusioned and beyond disillusioned feel what they feel. Some feel betrayed. Some feel insulted. Some are hurt. Some are angry. No quick and easy solution. To make light of strong feelings, and suggest some kind of quick fix as for a cold, can be taken as patronizing. I know you didn't mean it that way, but it can come across that way.

It seems to me the comments have been relatively mild. No curse words. No threats. Somewhat restrained.

I know you mean well, sj, but this situation is going to take time. And those who have hard feelings towards Geroy are not going to change their feelings because of a Christmas greeting from last year. Yes, and probably as it also includes a pitch for his online store. Buy Geroy-autograaphed gear, and outfits like this jacket he is wearing, in orange and black Lions' colours. A great Christmas gift. At geroysimon.com/store.
..........

Nice greeting from Geroy. :thup: Yes, and best wishes to Geroy and his family. :thup:

However, in the context of what is going on here, IMO it does not do any good to recommend it as some kind of salve for a wound.

As Geroy is a football hero, a role model, and very much in the hearts of thousands of loyal Lions' fans, it seems to me that he made some mistakes in his comments, decisions and actions. And those had consequences with some fans. That is the way it is, and that is the way it is likely to stay. For many, if not for all. (If they were not mistakes, in Geroy's mind, or in the minds of some fans, they certainly had consequences anyway.)

I understand that Geroy's loyal fans are uncomfortable with animosity towards him. But it won't go away all that easily.

What do they say? Time out. Let things cool off.
............

It seems mild here, in B.C., in Canada. Between athletes and angry fans it has gotten crazy in many places. Crazy.
..............

I think the only one who can even try to heal any wounds, if he is so inclined, is Geroy himself. He has a chance at the induction ceremony to say the best words he can say, with the best body language, and all of it. And if he is not feeling remorse, or any doubts about any of what has alienated some fans, then he has to be extra careful with anything he says that does not carry the conviction of sincerity.

Induction ceremony as another night to "scout" for the Riders, wearing green? Not recommended.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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cromartie
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Here's another dividing line that should make things pretty clear.

Last Friday, Omar Visquel was inducted into the Cleveland Indians Wall of Honor. Visquel is the fielding coach for the Detroit Tigers. The ceremony was held in Cleveland on a day the Tigers were in town.

Pregame ceremony? Street clothes. Post game interviews? Street clothes.

If you're part of a coaching staff, where the league mandates you wear team related apparel, that's one thing. Visquel was in the dugout for the Tigers, and as such wore a Tigers uniform, which was completely appropriate.

If you're front office or scout team? You have discretion for just this type of situation and should probably exercise it, hastily arranged or otherwise. I find it difficult to believe that, when given other 'favorite son' situations other fanbases wouldn't respond accordingly to just this type of thing happening.

If it impacts you viscerally (and really, it impacted me more as disrespectful as a fan) or if you don't like the way it ended or his comments at the WDF (a group of which, I emphasize again, I am not a member), then that's a d*ck move. If it didn't impact you at all, then you can shrug it off or acknowledge that, on a day you were acknowledged as a Lion great in the Lions stadium when the Lions announced they would retire your number, doing sideline on field interviews in Riders gear was a bit tone deaf.
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DanoT
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How about posting Geroy's Xmas greeting, as a Rider wearing black and orange, on Riderfans. I wonder for the sake of comparison what the Riderfan reaction would be.
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Rammer
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DanoT wrote:How about posting Geroy's Xmas greeting, as a Rider wearing black and orange, on Riderfans. I wonder for the sake of comparison what the Riderfan reaction would be.
Likely very black and white.
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sj-roc
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WestCoastJoe wrote:"for anyone who was put off by Geroy on Friday ... "

"If it makes you feel any better ... "

I know you mean well, sj. But people can take your well intentioned words the wrong way. And people can even take Geroy's greeting and sales pitch for his online store the wrong way..........
WCJ,

Wow, that was a pretty detailed reply to a two-line post. Was NOT expecting that, I must admit. But I assure you that I read through it all.

I was doubly surprised at first since I wrote a MUCH more greatly-detailed post immediately before that, which you seem to have completely ignored. I see nothing in what you wrote that could be regarded as a reply to it.

But... I'm not gonna go off on a half-cocked rant about that. Instead, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read it at all. Because it eventually dawned on me that by pure fluke, the earlier post happened to wind up as the last one on the previous page of this thread. A page that you might not have viewed since I made that post. I have no way of knowing this, and it's perfectly plausible to me that you did not, especially since (so far) nobody else seems to have replied directly to it, either.

To be honest, I originally intended to include the latter part as an afterthought at the end of my previous post but submitted before having done so. It was never really intended to be read in isolation from my previous post (your reply gives the impression of having done just that) but rather in succession to it, FWIW. I suppose I could have edited it into the original, but for whatever reason (prob what with it being after 1am in the morning at the time) I just started a new post with it. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time. But unfortunately this latter one got pushed to a new page. I didn't count on a split happening and didn't even notice it until I read your response yesterday morning. If I had my time back I'd have put it all together in one post, because as it stands, the post atop this page seems to be overshadowing the more meaty one before it, at least in terms of how you responded to the former.

If you indeed haven't already read that longer post at the end of the previous page, I would invite you to do so (here's a direct link to it). You expressed upthread great skepticism that Geroy was @BCP as a Rider rep ("Scouting for the Riders at BC Place as a reason for wearing green? I am not buying it.") and this post addresses that matter with what I feel are some pertinent details, ones that had not yet otherwise been considered herein.

Since I have no idea whether you've already seen this post, at this time I won't entertain any direct response to your last round of comments.

But I will offer this: for me, this discussion isn't even really about whether Geroy was pulling a "d*ck move" and (if so) whether he did it on purpose. It's about something bigger than that. It's about something I wish I saw less often: going off half-cocked in response to some event — perhaps because the easy knee-jerk reaction is one that happens to align naturally with one's sensibilities — without bothering to put aside one's prejudices to see if there's anything more to it than meets the eye.

This isn't even a Lionbackers thing. It's something that transcends this board. I see too much of it everywhere. We're too quick as a society to condemn and judge at the first sign of anything that doesn't strike our fancy. And frankly, a world where people are ever increasingly jumping to conclusions over all sorts of stuff, from the mundane to the major, is not the sort of world I prefer to live in. I think we can do better than that, so I like to set an example whenever I can.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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WestCoastJoe
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sj,

Started to respond to you on my iPad. As happens sometimes, it crashed in mid composition. Ughhh ... So here we go again.

I respect you and your views.

I believe Geroy fully deserves all time Lion recognition. He has always been most gracious and friendly whenever we have met or exchanged words. He has been a consummate pro in his time with the Lions.

We obviously see his comments, decisions and actions in this situation differently. I accept that. I can understand his loyal fans defending him, seeing nothing inappropriate in his behaviour, and feeling uncomfortable that some have reacted strongly against him. I can also understand those fans who are insulted or hurt or angry. It is a reality that there are fans on both sides.

From a PR point of view, with Geroy as a public figure, with a large following, I think he made mistakes. In his comments, even though I understand the pressure of the heat of the moment. And in his choice of shirts on the occasion of the announcement. Some fans feel that he made mistakes, or made oversights, or they could be deliberate acts, with full awareness of the probable response. Some fans see no ill will on his part. Some fans see only innocence in his comments or actions.

You and I talking here will not resolve anything, will not change anything. I think the people on the different sides of this large issue in the history of the Lions need to accept that the differences will continue on for a long while.

Many fans are going to stay loyal to Geroy.

And many fans are going to feel betrayed, or insulted or angry, et cetera.


Re the video you posted: I thought the Geroy Christmas greeting with the online store invitation, wearing orange and black, could be insulting to people who are genuinely upset or angry. That greeting, it seems to me, would heighten the emotional reaction. And I know you posted it in all good faith.


As a fan of the Lions, one can hardly be witness to this situation without having some reaction to it. That is true for me. But I do regret having participated in the discussion. It does no good. Whatever one says, it just seems to contribute to the polarization. And yes, that is part of Geroy's legacy: some polarization of the fans.

To those fans who are loyal to Geroy, I accept that, and I respect your feelings.

To those fans who are disillusioned or worse, I accept that, and I respect your feelings.

Both sides can say: "But couldn't you" ... "But why don't you" ... "But don't you see," as they have a hard time accepting the other's position. It ain't gonna change. At this time, Geroy is a polarizing figure.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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sj-roc
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With his Ring of Honour induction ceremony set for this week, the Vancouver Mayor's office declared today that Friday will be Geroy Simon Day. GS himself was on hand to accept the proclamation.

LU has the story in his 5Q blog. With due attention given to GS's attire.

There's an audio file in there of Geroy's comments but I couldn't get it to play; you're on your own.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/07/21 ... rs-friday/

Image

Wow, they misspelled his name on the 3rd Whereas. Who proofread this?

Image
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Rammer
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sj-roc wrote:With his Ring of Honour induction ceremony set for this week, the Vancouver Mayor's office declared today that Friday will be Geroy Simon Day. GS himself was on hand to accept the proclamation.

LU has the story in his 5Q blog. With due attention given to GS's attire.

There's an audio file in there of Geroy's comments but I couldn't get it to play; you're on your own.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/07/21 ... rs-friday/

Image

Wow, they misspelled his name on the 3rd Whereas. Who proofread this?

Image
Going to sleep through that day, thanks for the heads up...:)
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TheLionKing
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What, Geroy not wearing green ? :wink:
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sj-roc
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Current teamradio poll:

Greatest athlete to play in Vancouver: Pavel Bure, Sedin Twins [sic], Geroy Simon, Doug Flutie or (obviously a joke option) Big Country.

Bure running away with it so far.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Rammer
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sj-roc wrote:Current teamradio poll:

Greatest athlete to play in Vancouver: Pavel Bure, Sedin Twins [sic], Geroy Simon, Doug Flutie or (obviously a joke option) Big Country.

Bure running away with it so far.

Hmmm and interesting list of names, but rather skewed to the hockey central Vancouverites side. With those in mind though, I would list it Bure, Flutie, Twins, Simon, and bringing up the rear end Big Country.
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sj-roc
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Rammer wrote:
sj-roc wrote:Current teamradio poll:

Greatest athlete to play in Vancouver: Pavel Bure, Sedin Twins [sic], Geroy Simon, Doug Flutie or (obviously a joke option) Big Country.

Bure running away with it so far.

Hmmm and interesting list of names, but rather skewed to the hockey central Vancouverites side. With those in mind though, I would list it Bure, Flutie, Twins, Simon, and bringing up the rear end Big Country.
Reeves was thrown in just to keep the hockey & football options equal at two, which ranks right up there with the rest of his accomplishments on the Vancouver sports landscape.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Coast Mountain Lion
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In fairness to baseball fans, didn't Steve Rogers play for the Canadians near the end of his career? Probably the top baseball player ever to play in Vancouver so why not list him too.
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WestCoastJoe
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Why not greatest athlete from B.C.?

Steve Nash

Steve Yzerman

Joe Sakic

Larry Walker

Justin Morneau

Jason Bay

Cam Neely

Scott Niedermeyer, spent virtually his entire youth in B.C.
.............

Greatest athlete to play for a Vancouver team? Pavel Bure ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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