All things Lions Marketing/Promotions 2014

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Post Reply
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

As a point of reference for our scheduling issues I offer this graphic.

On the left is a calendar I posted here last November in a previous long-running marketing thread. In blue are Whitecaps home dates that had already been set at that time and in orange are the set of best dates the Lions could draw from in assembling their own schedule. By 'best' I mean any open Saturday, except the ones where the Caps played on Sunday of the same weekend (Saturday would be needed as a changeover day to convert the field), plus the Friday of the long August weekend (that Saturday is fireworks night, would never work).

At right is the same calendar, with changes to reflect our actual home dates. So from a ticket-buying fan's POV we got the right day four out of the nine games, although the first two of these had early start times because of TSN's broadcast schedule. For four of the other five games we're slotted into the flagship FNF broadcast. We were the league's weekly rating champs this past Friday as David noted earlier today; are we victims of our own success?

I recall there were comments in response to my November post, that BCP perhaps wants to control costs with the fewest possible changeovers, which might account for so many back-to-backs for both teams in this schedule. This would be one of those many moving parts I mentioned in my last post.

Image
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8082
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

LU gets a jump on Skulsky's day with the TEAM 1040 with an excellent article here on the declining attendance and the large TV ratings. Among the interesting points is 11,000 tickets remain for the Grey Cup game when it was already sold out at this point 3 years ago. No doubt the close window to the 2011 game has a big part to do with it, as well as the Lions inconsistent play to start the season.

Also doesn't sound like he is interested in closing the upper bowl but then again that is a decision made in the off season not in the middle of one when you are trying to sell your product and seats upstairs.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html
Ullrich: Couches a formidable foe for Lions’ attendance

Home comforts and HD broadcasts biting into the number of fans watching the game live


BY LOWELL ULLRICH, THE PROVINCE JULY 29, 2014

A clear sense of euphoria came over B.C. Lions owner David Braley around this time three seasons ago, or as unrestrained a demeanour as the only two-team owner in the CFL allows others to see.
The western end of Braley’s football operation had successfully survived an 18-month stay at Empire Field that has proved problematical for every team in the similar situation of waiting for a stadium overhaul since, and the future looked bright.
It was at least good enough for Braley to forecast a crowd or two in the area of 40,000 once the Lions returned to B.C. Place Stadium midway through the 2011 season.
But if any subsequent obvious pattern has emerged, it is one of a healthy business that is having trouble keeping the paying customer from retreating to the comfort of their television room. It’s an easy pendulum to monitor.
Television revenues are up, thanks to the average $42-million injection into the bottom line of every CFL team as a result of the new broadcast rights agreement with TSN. While television ratings as up, attendance is down.
And though the Lions pulled out all the stops to recognize a departed superstar in Geroy Simon, it had little effect on pulling the paying customer off the couch, with an increase of fewer than 300 fans for their most recent outing against Winnipeg compared to a week earlier.
There’s a touch of disappointment in the voice of president Dennis Skulsky in looking back at a game Friday that drew 25,321 fans, dropping the Lions’ three-game average relative to the 2013 season and continuing a decline (see chart).
But it also measured against Skulsky’s resolve.
“I don’t read more or less into it, but I would have thought that the (attendance) needle would have moved more for the sendoff of probably one of the greatest Lions ever,” Skulsky said after handing out Simon posters to the crowd at practice Tuesday.
“That was a little disappointing because I thought we could have sent off Geroy in an even bigger way. I was proud of what the organization did. At the end it reinforces that we have to work harder.”
The core business metrics of the franchise remain positive, with gains in almost every measurable area relative to the bottom line, including corporate, group and season-ticket sales, Skulsky said.
TSN ratings remain strong, with the Lions-Winnipeg audience of 874,000 nationally outranking almost all Canadian sports television combined that was available Friday. As a concession to the new TV agreement, the Lions have played two of three home games on Saturday afternoons, hardly a traditional time slot.
However, even discounting the annual difficulty of attracting fans before Labour Day, single-game sales are down to the point where the Lions are now targeting a 10-year low in average attendance going back to the 2003 arrival of Wally Buono.
Skulsky wasn’t willing to concede a burnout effect is in effect over the fact the Lions are about to host their second Grey Cup game in four seasons. The 2011 game had already sold out by this point in the season, and he is confident the remaining 11,000 seats will be taken for the Nov. 30 game.
Traditional rivals are also selling well, as the club Tuesday announced additional sections will be opened for an Aug. 24 game against the Saskatchewan Roughriders.
It’s also clear the Lions aren’t about to adopt the business model of the Vancouver Whitecaps, who restrict sales to the lower bowl and announce a sellout in an attempt to drive demand.
“I don’t subscribe to the theory that you don’t make tickets available to fans if there’s a need or a desire,” said Skulsky. “If people want to come to the stadium there’s a good chance we’ll have a ticket available.”
The problem isn’t limited to the Lions or three-down football but that there are no significant attendance gains anywhere in pro sports, Skulsky said.
Overall, though, the Lions’ attendance of 24,969 is just below the early league average, with attendance across the CFL down seven per cent in the first year of the new TSN deal, where blackout provisions are extremely limited. The only team reporting an attendance gain is the 4-1 Edmonton Eskimos.
There is no shortage of marketing experts when a team loses a segment of its fan base, but it clearly also doesn’t help when neither of Braley’s teams scored a touchdown last week, which may well have been a first during the same week under the watch of the Lions and Toronto Argonauts owner.
“There isn’t any panic going on with our organization. It’s pro sports and the whole television element,” Skulsky said. “That’s what pro sports is up against, including the quality of the broadcast and the availability of the (HD) signal.
“Does it have some impact? Yes, it probably does. None of these things in isolation should be judged.”
Indeed, they are only examined when a Lions legend is honoured and the city is predominantly cheering from the comfort of home.
JUST AVERAGE: Average attendance figures for the B.C. Lions at various points through the Wally Buono era:
Year Avg.
2003 23,653
2005-w 32,614
2008-x 34,083
2011-wy 29,725
2013 28,311
2014-wz 24,972
w-Host to Grey Cup game
x-Year of Bob Ackles death; highest average since 1991
y-Played at both B.C. Place Stadium, Empire Field
z-through three home dates
lullrich@theprovince.com
Twitter.com/fifthqtr
User avatar
almo89
Legend
Posts: 2232
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:51 am
Location: Coquitlam

HD has had an impact for sure, but I feel it's such a cop out. Every league is dealing with HD, so you can't just blame the decline in attendance all to HD. This whole thread has tons of info on why there has been an decline and it's not just because of HD.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12590
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

It's unfair to compare the average attendance in the summer of 2014 to the average for previous full seasons. Here's an apples-to-apples comparison of the first three summer regular season games in the three post-Empire seasons.

2012: 27,605
2013: 26,245
2014: 24,969

One of many factors at play this season is that two of the first three games of 2014 have been afternoon starts, which generally produce a dip in attendance. The new TV schedule is forcing more tradeoffs between maximizing TV viewership and maximizing stadium attendance and revenue.
User avatar
almo89
Legend
Posts: 2232
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:51 am
Location: Coquitlam

B.C.FAN wrote:It's unfair to compare the average attendance in the summer of 2014 to the average for previous full seasons. Here's an apples-to-apples comparison of the first three summer regular season games in the three post-Empire seasons.

2012: 27,605
2013: 26,245
2014: 24,969

One of many factors at play this season is that two of the first three games of 2014 have been afternoon starts, which generally produce a dip in attendance. The new TV schedule is forcing more tradeoffs between maximizing TV viewership and maximizing stadium attendance and revenue.
That is true. I think it's more accurate to compare the number of season tickets sold per year since around 2002 till now.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

Team radio had a poll that ran through Sekeres's show today:

Has HD television changed your sports consumption?

• Yes, I don't attend live events anymore.... 7.7%
• Yes, I attend fewer events................. 34.1%
• No, I still like being at the game.......... 29.5%
• No, I didn't go to games before HD....... 19.5%
• I don't have HD................................9.1%

41.8% have cut back on buying tickets because of hi-def.

And now as I type, a fresh poll just introduced for the afternoon show:

What's the best way to watch a game?
• Buy tickets, watch it live
• At home on the couch, with Hi-def
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

Just had a look at sales for the Rider game a week from today... will be in tough to crack 30k. I'd say less than 500 tickets have been sold from the extra ~5k seating opened up specifically for this game (upper deck behind visitors' bench). Looks like at most 28k sold at this point. We'll prob lead the league's tv ratings for the week again, but these days even the Riders aren't much of a draw into the building for a summer 4pm kickoff on a Sunday. Last time we had <30k for a reg season Riders visit to BCP was 2006:

Fri, Jun 16, 2006....SSK 28 @ BC 45....27,539
Fri, Jul 14, 2006.....SSK 29 @ BC 28....28,513
Thu, Aug 02, 2007..SSK 21 @ BC 9......31,858
Fri, Jul 04, 2008.....SSK 26 @ BC 16....33,813
Sat, Sep 13, 2008...SSK 23 @ BC 28....38,608
Fri, Aug 07, 2009....SSK 20 @ BC 35....30,117
Fri, Oct 02, 2009.....SSK 16 @ BC 19...31,958
Sun, Aug 19, 2012...SSK 5 @ BC 25.....34,343
Sat, Nov 03, 2012...SSK 6 @ BC 17......36,357
Fri, Oct 04, 2013....SSK 31 @ BC 17....37,312

Unless there's a huge surge in sales the next 7 days, it seems it was hardly worth the added security and concession labour costs to open the extra seating.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
Qman
Champion
Posts: 933
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 12:59 pm
Location: Section 240

usually there is not alot of sales activity until week of the game.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

Qman wrote:usually there is not alot of sales activity until week of the game.
I guess time will tell but this wasn't the case for Geroy Simon night last month. Several of us checked during the run up and there was pretty much no late surge in sales to watch #81 go up on the wall.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
dupsdell1
Champion
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:32 am

sj-roc wrote:
Qman wrote:usually there is not alot of sales activity until week of the game.
I guess time will tell but this wasn't the case for Geroy Simon night last month. Several of us checked during the run up and there was pretty much no late surge in sales to watch #81 go up on the wall.


Time will tell the riders always seem to bring fans out of the woodwork that you would usually not get, I hate these Sunday aft games that is to be a big factor, I say at the most 32,000

what a weekend for me GOING TO THE SEAHAWKS GAME ON FRIDAY AND LIONS GAME ON SUNDAY :good: LOVE THIS GAME
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9369
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

I have to disagree sj-roc. I think they should be able to sell 5K tickets this week, especially with both teams on winning streaks, what it means in the standings, the fact we're approaching late summer now (most people have already had their summer vacations).....and the hype machine just starting. They should be able to get to 30K rather easily, 32K would be a realistic goal, but 33K+ not beyond the realm of possibility.

With all due respect to Geroy, but if the casual fan is attending only one game this year, I think it's "BC-Riders" rather than a night Geroy gets honoured at half-time against Winnipeg in the dead of summer (and a somewhat disappointing 2-2 record at the time).


DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

David wrote:I have to disagree sj-roc. I think they should be able to sell 5K tickets this week, especially with both teams on winning streaks, what it means in the standings, the fact we're approaching late summer now (most people have already had their summer vacations).....and the hype machine just starting. They should be able to get to 30K rather easily, 32K would be a realistic goal, but 33K+ not beyond the realm of possibility.

With all due respect to Geroy, but if the casual fan is attending only one game this year, I think it's "BC-Riders" rather than a night Geroy gets honoured at half-time against Winnipeg in the dead of summer (and a somewhat disappointing 2-2 record at the time).


DH :cool:
I'm not ruling it out — I'm just a little more pessimistic at this point. Tonight's win along with other factors as you state might help deliver a late surge, but I just seem to recall that for recent Ssk visits, sales weren't this tepid with just a week left. I think the 4pm Sun kickoff could curtail the gate somewhat over what it otherwise might have been.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
dupsdell1
Champion
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:32 am

sj-roc wrote:
David wrote:I have to disagree sj-roc. I think they should be able to sell 5K tickets this week, especially with both teams on winning streaks, what it means in the standings, the fact we're approaching late summer now (most people have already had their summer vacations).....and the hype machine just starting. They should be able to get to 30K rather easily, 32K would be a realistic goal, but 33K+ not beyond the realm of possibility.

With all due respect to Geroy, but if the casual fan is attending only one game this year, I think it's "BC-Riders" rather than a night Geroy gets honoured at half-time against Winnipeg in the dead of summer (and a somewhat disappointing 2-2 record at the time).


DH :cool:
I'm not ruling it out — I'm just a little more pessimistic at this point. Tonight's win along with other factors as you state might help deliver a late surge, but I just seem to recall that for recent Ssk visits, sales weren't this tepid with just a week left. I think the 4pm Sun kickoff could curtail the gate somewhat over what it otherwise might have been.

Actually the Sunday 4 00 pm start could kill the attendance for this one , this game should be played Sat night at 7 00pm , I am hope I am wrong ,To all the people that live on the island this is the game to come to .
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

dupsdell1 wrote:Actually the Sunday 4 00 pm start could kill the attendance for this one , this game should be played Sat night at 7 00pm , I am hope I am wrong ,To all the people that live on the island this is the game to come to .
Last season, a friend who lives here in town happened to be returning from an island trip on the PCL bus. This was mid-afternoon of the same night Ssk played here, first Fri of Oct, and she told me the bus was full of rowdy 50-something Rider fans.

They'll be back.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8082
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

sj-roc wrote:Just had a look at sales for the Rider game a week from today... will be in tough to crack 30k. I'd say less than 500 tickets have been sold from the extra ~5k seating opened up specifically for this game (upper deck behind visitors' bench). Looks like at most 28k sold at this point. We'll prob lead the league's tv ratings for the week again, but these days even the Riders aren't much of a draw into the building for a summer 4pm kickoff on a Sunday. Last time we had <30k for a reg season Riders visit to BCP was 2006:

Fri, Jun 16, 2006....SSK 28 @ BC 45....27,539
Fri, Jul 14, 2006.....SSK 29 @ BC 28....28,513
Thu, Aug 02, 2007..SSK 21 @ BC 9......31,858
Fri, Jul 04, 2008.....SSK 26 @ BC 16....33,813
Sat, Sep 13, 2008...SSK 23 @ BC 28....38,608
Fri, Aug 07, 2009....SSK 20 @ BC 35....30,117
Fri, Oct 02, 2009.....SSK 16 @ BC 19...31,958
Sun, Aug 19, 2012...SSK 5 @ BC 25.....34,343
Sat, Nov 03, 2012...SSK 6 @ BC 17......36,357
Fri, Oct 04, 2013....SSK 31 @ BC 17....37,312

Unless there's a huge surge in sales the next 7 days, it seems it was hardly worth the added security and concession labour costs to open the extra seating.
Not sure why the Lions would open up the other visitors of the upper deck well before there was even 50 percent sold on the home side. Better marketing to say additional sections are being opened to accommodate the ticket demand to at least create a buzz. If I remember, Ackles always wanted so many tickets sold a week in advance before they would proceed with more sections.

Already heard in the pre-game yesterday about a "big crowd" for this coming Sunday. Sure hope some ridiculous numbers aren't tossed around like we have seen so many times in the past.
Post Reply