Archibald retires, McKenzie released....

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B.C.FAN
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The Lions had to get younger. They won the Grey Cup with a veteran team in 2011 and kept their veteran core intact in 2012 in the hope of repeating. They got younger last year at the receiver position and on the O-line, thanks to Angus Reid's injury but age was beginning to show at other positions. The writing was on the wall at the end of last season for Reid, Ben Archibald, Korey Banks and Anton McKenzie. The only surprise was how long it took in some cases for the transition to become official.
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I agree BCFAN, these 2 moves could have been made last year...I know that Anton gets a lot of love here, but he hasn't been a difference maker for the Lions for awhile...and while he is a team player and a nice guy, in this business, nice guys finish last...old or young, what the Lions need more than anything else are DIFFERENCE makers...bringing in a new IMPORT OT, a la Rob Murphy, could put us over the top...Archibald was near awful for stretches last season, after Wally forced him to "re-do" his deal...the writing was on the wall...

For all that Wally has done of late to try and shore up the holes for the Lions, the fact remains we still need to get better, and there are 2 things that Wally must accomplish...ONE, we must have a good draft that nets us at least one serviceable player for THIS season, and TWO, Wally and Shivers MUST have their best off season recruitment of Import FAs...if these things don't occur, we are going to allow a year in which we host the GC to pass us by...
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Shi Zi Mi wrote:Does anyone disagree with the notion that the Lions needed to get younger? We've all seen what happens to teams that hang on to players from glory years when age catches up......when those aging vets leave en masse, the team spends the next few seasons in "rebuild" mode to replace them.

IMHO, Buono has ensured that there are replacements already on board or readily available (oline being the exception). As for leadership, there are still a number of well respected vets whose turn it is, to step up and become the new leaders.
Probably one of the reason why Banks, McKenzie is no longer a Lion.
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Hawkballer 14 wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:
Hawkballer 14 wrote:I'm going to find a nice comfy spot where I can watch the dumpster fire that is the 2014 BC Lions burn.... :popcorn:
Also, I never knew that Hawkballer was related to the former OC - based on his posts during JC's time as OC with BC.
Actually not. But if that's what some of you fools need to get by, knock yourselves out. :beauty:

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cromartie wrote:That said, still waiting for some significant D Line contributions here.....
Me too. There's been a focus on NI linemen (mainly O-line) for the last little while on the forum, but IMO that's not what will make this team special. NI guys are very important in the Canadian game, but I don't believe we can count on the draft to get us the D-linemen that will produce a big-time defense. Traditionally you see more NIs on the O-line in the CFL, with the import D-linemen determining the D-line's strength. With the dearth of FA signings so far in this off-season, I'm hoping that Wally is finding the kind of big, tough, nasty import DTs and DEs that will make us a winner. NI guys like Westerman and Jermaine Reid are important parts of the whole in any rotational scheme, but IMO they're not difference-makers, and what we really need are three or four ex-NFLers or import FAs to compete with Eric Taylor, Brandon Jordan, Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson, and Adrian Awasom at TC. If Wally can sign Ted Laurent, then that will be great, but we can't count on that, and, even if he is eventually signed, the season might be half over by then. In my view, Taylor might have one more decent season in him, and Smith is (barely) serviceable, but we need some new, young, big and fast import D-linemen. Even if we could eventually find only two such guys who could really play, the picture would be very different for a team that has solid linebackers and what's probably still a decent secondary.
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I have been a fan the the Lions long enough to remember all those years when they kept players around even though their best days were behind them so I'm not deeply concerned about the attrition. And I have enough confidence in our current scouting system to know there is no need to panic.

There are SIX free agent camps scheduled before TC begins (Apr 6 Ft Lauderdale, Apr 24 Dallas, Apr 25 Las Vegas, May 3 Atlanta, May 4 Washington DC, May 17 Seattle). I'm sure others on this board can reel off all the names of players these camps have brought in (Buck Pierce, for one. And almost Cam Wake!) over the years.

I predict these camps will yield not only the usual TC fodder along with a handful of keepers, but a genuine all-star will emerge from amongst the crowd. I just can't say what position he'll play! :wink:
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QB Club 63 wrote:I predict these camps will yield not only the usual TC fodder along with a handful of keepers, but a genuine all-star will emerge from amongst the crowd. I just can't say what position he'll play! :wink:
This year the Lions are counting on free-agent camps to produce a starting nickelback and right tackle. They're also in need of depth in the secondary. Those are big positions top fill. There isn't much room for error.
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B.C.FAN wrote:
QB Club 63 wrote:I predict these camps will yield not only the usual TC fodder along with a handful of keepers, but a genuine all-star will emerge from amongst the crowd. I just can't say what position he'll play! :wink:
This year the Lions are counting on free-agent camps to produce a starting nickelback and right tackle. They're also in need of depth in the secondary. Those are big positions top fill. There isn't much room for error.
LU has already alluded to the Lions signing 5 DBs......they just haven't announced them yet.

Finding imports is not a tough job.....it's the quality NI's that's far more difficult.
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QB Club 63 wrote:I have been a fan the the Lions long enough to remember all those years when they kept players around even though their best days were behind them so I'm not deeply concerned about the attrition. And I have enough confidence in our current scouting system to know there is no need to panic.

There are SIX free agent camps scheduled before TC begins (Apr 6 Ft Lauderdale, Apr 24 Dallas, Apr 25 Las Vegas, May 3 Atlanta, May 4 Washington DC, May 17 Seattle). I'm sure others on this board can reel off all the names of players these camps have brought in (Buck Pierce, for one. And almost Cam Wake!) over the years.

I predict these camps will yield not only the usual TC fodder along with a handful of keepers, but a genuine all-star will emerge from amongst the crowd. I just can't say what position he'll play! :wink:
Absolutely essential to keep your team turnover constant in order to stay high up in the standings as if they all age simultaneously, you're destined to be a bottom feeder until you get new blood in with a mix of young and mid- to near end of career players with a great core group that keeps you winning.

The risk always is the loss of the core and if that will prove a problem when too many changes in a team such that the team lacks a solid core who sets and keeps all others at a high standard.

The unknown this year for BC is the quality of the team with these losses and the new OC and DC and how they work out. They've no doubt made good selections here with coordinators and the DC is not new to the team but just to the role. The OC looks good but new to the team.
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Toppy Vann wrote:Absolutely essential to keep your team turnover constant in order to stay high up in the standings as if they all age simultaneously, you're destined to be a bottom feeder until you get new blood in with a mix of young and mid- to near end of career players with a great core group that keeps you winning.

The risk always is the loss of the core and if that will prove a problem when too many changes in a team such that the team lacks a solid core who sets and keeps all others at a high standard.

The unknown this year for BC is the quality of the team with these losses and the new OC and DC and how they work out. They've no doubt made good selections here with coordinators and the DC is not new to the team but just to the role. The OC looks good but new to the team.
I've been struck this off-season by some similarities in team-building philosophy between Wally Buono and the duo of Pete Carroll and John Schneider of the Seahawks. (I've included the Seahawks' HC because he has final say on all personnel decisions and is, therefore, like a second GM). That philosophy is to build a strong core and then think long-term when adding to it. Like the Lions, the Seahawks have lost a lot of players in free agency this off-season--the inevitable consequence in any salary-cap system of winning it all and having some of your stars look for more money elsewhere. I don't believe that 'Hawks have added anyone in free agency (although I may have missed someone), certainly not a star. Like Wally, Pete/John have refused to pay huge salaries for name players. They offered Golden Tate (it's believed) something on the order of $4M/year to stay, and he jumped to Detroit for $6M. There was great anticipation when Jared Allen came on the market, but, evidently, the 'Hawks' top offer was $6M/year, and he went to the Bears for $8M/year. The Seahawks do have some cap money to spend, but they're being very careful with it and just won't overspend. John Schneider made a comment a while back to the effect that they were building for the long haul--to be good for a long time--and you don't achieve that by being dazzled by some star that comes along and blowing your wad on him. Wally's approach seems very similar. He could have picked up some guys in free agency, but he felt they wanted too much money to play for the Lions, and he passed. Rather than overpaying for a player, he seems to be relying on FA camps and other scouting methods to bring in some new guys and let them fight it out for starting positions at TA. This is exactly how Pete/John do it. Everyone competes, and the best survive the process and become starters. (I hope they don't undermine my points above by overspending for DeSean Jackson now!)

The Seahawks have a core on both offense (Wilson, Lynch, Okung, Unger, Baldwin, Harvin) and defense (Mebane, Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Maxwell, Wagner, Irvin, Smith) that Pete/John want to retain, and the price paid to keep them may be an off-year in which they're still good and playoff-bound, but won't get back to the Super Bowl. With wise draft picks (which has been their hallmark, as many of their core players were lower-round draft picks), they will once again build back to supremacy. We should be prepared to give Wally the same opportunity. Even with some good draft picks, some good acquisitions from FA camps and elsewhere, we may not be GC material in 2014 (although anything is possible, it seems to me, in the CFL), but may be building a dominant long-term nucleus that will be competitive for some time. Difficult as it is, perhaps we should be content with a year of re-developing our core and playing solid football even if we end up 2nd or even 3rd in the West, but with the promise of winning it all in 2015. Things may be a little different in this respect between the NFL and CFL, but the "win now" philosophy often leads to short-term improvements followed by some years of real mediocrity.

Just a Monday morning thought....
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I think history has shown that overpaying athletes doesn't always produce winners. Hockey for instance, New York Rangers paid big bucks to free agents such as Scott Gomez, Bobby Holik, Wade Redden etc.
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TheLionKing wrote:I think history has shown that overpaying athletes doesn't always produce winners. Hockey for instance, New York Rangers paid big bucks to free agents such as Scott Gomez, Bobby Holik, Wade Redden etc.
Yet in the CFL the Esks run in the 70's and competitive edge thereafter until the current SMS was in place could be attributed to having the biggest CFL payroll.

Of course in MLB, if you aren't spending big, you have to have everything go right just to make the playoffs.
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TheLionKing wrote:I think history has shown that overpaying athletes doesn't always produce winners. Hockey for instance, New York Rangers paid big bucks to free agents such as Scott Gomez, Bobby Holik, Wade Redden etc.

IMO, the 'overpaying' has a lot to do with whether it was successful or NOT. In hockey if A PLAYER means you go FOUR SERIES IN THE PLAYOFFS and win a Stanley CUP, then that one player (or TWO?) were probably worth it. Far too often a big contract seems to be an albatross for a team who ends up paying BIG MONEY for a player whose big years were a few years ago. IMO, overpaying doesn't happen too often, if at all, in the CFL......
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B.C.FAN
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As expected, McKenzie has signed in Ottawa. He can provide some veteran leadership on the field and in the locker room.
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South Pender wrote:
cromartie wrote:That said, still waiting for some significant D Line contributions here.....
Me too. There's been a focus on NI linemen (mainly O-line) for the last little while on the forum, but IMO that's not what will make this team special. NI guys are very important in the Canadian game, but I don't believe we can count on the draft to get us the D-linemen that will produce a big-time defense. Traditionally you see more NIs on the O-line in the CFL, with the import D-linemen determining the D-line's strength. With the dearth of FA signings so far in this off-season, I'm hoping that Wally is finding the kind of big, tough, nasty import DTs and DEs that will make us a winner. NI guys like Westerman and Jermaine Reid are important parts of the whole in any rotational scheme, but IMO they're not difference-makers, and what we really need are three or four ex-NFLers or import FAs to compete with Eric Taylor, Brandon Jordan, Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson, and Adrian Awasom at TC. If Wally can sign Ted Laurent, then that will be great, but we can't count on that, and, even if he is eventually signed, the season might be half over by then. In my view, Taylor might have one more decent season in him, and Smith is (barely) serviceable, but we need some new, young, big and fast import D-linemen. Even if we could eventually find only two such guys who could really play, the picture would be very different for a team that has solid linebackers and what's probably still a decent secondary.

Ever heard of Rick Klassen, Nick Hebeler? ; how bout Brent Johnson or Ricky Foley ?- I wouldn't be so quick to write-off NI D-lineman possibly making an impact.

Do a good job scouting; then drafting, recruiting/signing free agents as well = mine both the import and NI talent pools, and end up with lots of real TC competition ... and you might find close to another Cam Wake or a Klassen or Brent Johnson.
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