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[Shi Zi Mi]

So if either Ottawa, Winnipeg or Edmonton would be willing to give up their 1st Rd draft pick for Westerman......would you make the trade to get high value for Westerman now, thus ensuring you get one of the primo olineman in May? Or keep Westerman for 2014 and possibly miss out on the 3 olineman?

IMHO, with Westerman wanting to return East, if you can get the 1st overall pick from Ottawa and then take Goosen......I'd make that trade.

[WestCoastJoe]

So if either Ottawa, Winnipeg or Edmonton would be willing to give up their 1st Rd draft pick for Westerman......would you make the trade to get high value for Westerman now, thus ensuring you get one of the primo olineman in May? Or keep Westerman for 2014 and possibly miss out on the 3 olineman?

IMHO, with Westerman wanting to return East, if you can get the 1st overall pick from Ottawa and then take Goosen......I'd make that trade.

To steep a price IMO, Shi Zi Mi. Plus I think we can get a good OL anyway, for depth, even if he is not in the top 3.

And we need Westerman this year. We have very, very little NI D Line depth as it is.

Norman at centre. Fabien at guard. Valli at guard. Two imports at tackle. Steward in the mix. We are not desperate anymore in the O Line, it seems to me. Prior to the emergence of Norman and Fabien, I would say we were in a near desperate situation in the OL.

As OV has noted, Goosen might be there for us at #5. If he is there for us, Bonus.

All for discussion. Many points of view.

D Line might be our first pick.

[David]

They've invested so much in Matt Norman's development as a centre, I highly doubt he's going to be moved to guard. To have to go through the growing pains with another new centre? No thanks.

Not saying 'no' to drafting Goosen (although I read he had a disappointing combine), but don't want to get rid of Westerman for a higher pick. We need him for this year.

I don't think Goosen is going to be gone in the top 4 picks. He may not even be the guy Management want at #5. I'm crossing my fingers it's a D-lineman (Smith).


DH

[South Pender]

I'm not as confident as WCJ about our O-line (seeing Dean Valli's name penciled in as a starter erodes any confidence I might have had in a hurry), but, at this point, I think I'm more concerned about our D-line. With the D-line guys we have on hand,I can see this defense really getting pushed around and our LBs having the season from hell. Frankly, I'm not sure that any of the returning import D-linemen--Taylor, Jordan, Smith, Wilson, Awasom--can cut it up front any more, and my hope is that Wally is really beating the bushes for some young import D-linemen that can give our holdovers very stiff competition at TC. If this problem (as I see it) at import DT and DE can be fixed (or, for that matter, even if it can't), then we need Westerman for a 6-man rotation (along with Reid). I can't see trading him for a higher draft pick. Just my opinion, of course.

[South Pender]

I'm crossing my fingers it's a D-lineman (Smith).

Do you see Smith as a better prospect than Gill? He is heavier, but is ranked well below Gill, I believe.

[Shi Zi Mi]

IMHO, with a goal of playing in the 2014 GC, priority #1 for the Lions is keeping Travis Lulay upright and healthy.......which won't happen without serious upgrade to the oline......which means Valli and to a lesser extent Kabongo must be removed from the equation......because quite simply the "ole" blocks are going to get Lulay killed.

I'm not sure why the angst over the Dline.....import Dlinemen, unlike NI olineman, are relatively easy to find......and you can be sure that with the current trend to getting younger, the Lions will audition a plethora of them in the up coming FA camps.......and besides, the fall back position could be moving to a 3-4 defence.....we already have 3 starting calibre LB's.

[WestCoastJoe]

I'm not as confident as WCJ about our O-line (seeing Dean Valli's name penciled in as a starter erodes any confidence I might have had in a hurry), but, at this point, I think I'm more concerned about our D-line.

"Confident" about our OL? Not a word I would use, SP.

Many concerns still. System. Philosophy. Overload of information. Keeping it simple enough so that athletes can be intuitive and spontaneous. Progress. Backsliding.

Youth. Norman and Fabien have shown very well. But it is tougher when veterans get a read on you, on your tendencies and favourite moves.

Depth. Still a concern.

But I find the situation promising. Norman and Fabien are the first young guys I recall since 2003 that have started as rookies, with some success. Our drafting has improved. We have highly rated Steward in the fold. We may even get Danny Watkins at some point, but we cannot count on that.

Things are looking up. But we still have many concerns. We do not have depth. We will no doubt draft at least one more OL.

[South Pender]

IMHO, with a goal of playing in the 2014 GC, priority #1 for the Lions is keeping Travis Lulay upright and healthy.......which won't happen without serious upgrade to the oline......which means Valli and to a lesser extent Kabongo must be removed from the equation......because quite simply the "ole" blocks are going to get Lulay killed.

I'm not sure why the angst over the Dline.....import Dlinemen, unlike NI olineman, are relatively easy to find......and you can be sure that with the current trend to getting younger, the Lions will audition a plethora of them in the up coming FA camps.......and besides, the fall back position could be moving to a 3-4 defence.....we already have 3 starting calibre LB's.

I'm not so sure that finding import D-linemen that can really play is all that easy. You're probably right that there are lots of American D-linemen not playing at the moment, and these guys will likely show up in the various FA camps,, but there is usually a reason for the fact that they're not on anyone's pro roster: they're just not that good. Of course, the monumental exception to that is Cam Wake, but how often will this happen? My recollection is that there are a lot of new names at camp each year, but they soon fall by the wayside. We usually bring a few import RBs to camp, along with receivers. This year, I'd like to see Wally focus in on D-linemen--bring in a truckload of them. Don't worry about RB; we've got that covered. Don't worry about receiver; we've got that covered. At least in both cases, we have guys who can play already on the roster. The place where we are desperately inadequate, IMO, is the D-line; we need to find 2 or 3 big, tough, athletic, and young D-linemen who can really play, and that's not going to be easy. I don't know what Mark Washington's views are on the front-7 alignment, but, if we are going to go to a 3-4, we desperately need a big (300 lbs. and up, preferably up) 0- or 1-tech nose tackle who can occupy two O-linemen--a guy like B. J. Raji of the Packers. At the moment, the only guy big enough for that role, I think, is Eric Taylor, and he's 32 and, at least to my eye, showing signs of a drop-off in competence. For a 3-4 to work, you need linebackers who can either (a) rush the passer (like the Packers' 3-4 scheme) or (b) drop into coverage. I think I see our backers as more of the run-stopping variety, and, as a result, I think I'd favor a 4-3. But that means we need dependable pass-rushing 5-tech DEs. And who do we have now? Chris Wilson, who will be 32 when the season starts and Khreem Smith, who will be 35. I just don't think the guys currently on our roster can get it done, but that's just my opinion. I hope we don't have to find out.

[Shi Zi Mi]

Today, in an article from LU about the Harris extension, LU mentions that Buono's attention now turns to extensions for Phillips and Chris Wilson......obviously, Buono has a higher regard for the import DL's that are currently on the roster than some on here.

[WestCoastJoe]

Re the DL ...

I like Khreem Smith. Underrated. Hard working. Not flashy. Effective.

Eric Taylor. Moves pretty well for a giant of a guy. Still very effective IMO.

Keron? Dunno ... Tackle? End? Tackle is out. End?

Not really a Chris Williams fan.

Jordan. I like him. His weight to me is not a problem. Explosive.

Competition would be nice. Finding a gem or two would be nice.
............

Re the NIs. Depth would be nice. High draft pick would be nice.
...........

Not a fan of the 3-4. If Mark W likes it, I need to be made a believer. I see it as a contain defence, although I know proponents of it like the LB blitz coming from all over. I prefer 4 in the line, with LBs coming from all over. LOL

[South Pender]

Today, in an article from LU about the Harris extension, LU mentions that Buono's attention now turns to extensions for Phillips and Chris Wilson......obviously, Buono has a higher regard for the import DL's that are currently on the roster than some on here.

That's one DL. Any others extended? I can see another productive year or two for Phillips. With Wilson, my concern has been his production. Last season (in which he played fewer than half the games, I think), he had 6 tackles and 3 sacks. In two full previous seasons he averaged 4.5 sacks per year. That's not good production from a starting DE, and he'll be 32 this season.

[B.C.FAN]

Chris Wilson was pretty raw the last time he was here. He showed good quickness off the edge but took poor angles and tended to overrun the pocket. He still showed enough ability to stick around in the NFL for several years but he was more effective as a pass-rush specialist in a 4-3 defence than as a linebacker when the Redskins converted to a 3-4 defence. He could still have his best years ahead of him as a CFL defensive end.

Khreem Smith, Brandon Jordan and Eric Taylor seem set as the remaining starters, with Jabar Westerman and Jermaine Reid in the rotation. I would be pleasantly surprised if the Lions can find a young defensive end who can push Smith for his starting spot or even be developed on the practicve roster. People watch for a promising new defensive end every year but it just hasn't happened. The talent brought to training camp at that position in recent years has been consistently disappointing.

[South Pender]

Chris Wilson was pretty raw the last time he was here. He showed good quickness off the edge but took poor angles and tended to overrun the pocket. He still showed enough ability to stick around in the NFL for several years but he was more effective as a pass-rush specialist in a 4-3 defence than as a linebacker when the Redskins converted to a 3-4 defence. He could still have his best years ahead of him as a CFL defensive end.

Khreem Smith, Brandon Jordan and Eric Taylor seem set as the remaining starters, with Jabar Westerman and Jermaine Reid in the rotation. I would be pleasantly surprised if the Lions can find a young defensive end who can push Smith for his starting spot or even be developed on the practicve roster. People watch for a promising new defensive end every year but it just hasn't happened. The talent brought to training camp at that position in recent years has been consistently disappointing.

That's a good analysis. However, I see more need for new (and big) talent in the DT positions. In a typical 4-3, you have a NT (or 0 or 1-tech guy) and a 3-tech guy. I guess Taylor is our NT by default, but I have some real doubts about Brandon Jordan's ability to fill the 3-tech function. He's listed at 255, and IMO, that's too light to command double-teams and free things up for the LBs. If Wally could get him, Ted Laurent, at 6-1, 305, and only 26, would likely fill that role nicely.

[David]

South Pender, I agree with you on the need to add a 0 or 1 technique guy. I like Eric Taylor, but we need to get younger at this position. Someone who will compliment him and, ideally, someone who will get double teamed, like Khalif Mitchell. That said, there's room for Jordon too. It's not a black and white issue. I could see a 310lb DT playing on first down, and Jordon or someone with similar pass rush ability rotating in on 2nd and long, or obvious passing downs.



DH

[Shi Zi Mi]

News1130 Sports ‏@News1130Sports 16m

#BCLions - very encouraging as qb Travis Lulay throwing 30-35 yards to his receivers yesterday at the Lions practise facility.