I have a ton of respect of Rich Stubler as a defensive coordinator. His track record is outstanding. However, if he had a major say in the personnel decisions on the defensive side of the ball the past two seasons then he missed the mark on many of them.
Remember, he inherited a championship calibre defence when he arrived here in 2012. The Lions thrived with a six man defensive rotation with Mitchell an absolute beast in the middle. The line stays intact for 2012 but BC decides to tinker with the secondary bringing in two of Stubler's players from Toronto — Parker and Shell. The shuffle cost Tad Korengay his spot at halfback despite being an outstanding mid-season replacement after being cut by the Riders. Meanwhile Parker and Shell were ordinary at best with Parker losing his job after a nightmare Western Final.
Despite having the league best defence in 2012 the Lions decide to tinker again. Mitchell is considered too much of distraction and is traded. Luckily we get Cord Parks but Mitchell's presence is hugely missed. Did the Lions coaching staff not realize even though Mitchell's production was down, the constant double teams he faced opened up lanes for other d-lineman? Those type of NFL quality tackles just don't go on trees.
To make matters worse they believe Keron Williams, the league's best DE for the past 2 seasons, is capable of sliding inside, opening the door for the signing of Julius Williams to play DE. As we know Julius was a bust and Keron had probably the worst season of his career and his future as a Lion is in jeopardy.
Still irks me how we went from a dominant line just 2 years ago, with 2 of the league's best at their positions (Williams and Mitchell), to massive question marks across the board. Just a brutal job of personnel decisions by Wally, Benevides and Stubler trying to tinker with something that wasn't broken, despite Mitchell's antics.
Lions' D Line for 2014 -- Mike Beamish re David Menard
Moderator: Team Captains
-
- Legend
- Posts: 2779
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 am
- Location: Vancouver weekdays; Gulf Islands on weekends
Parker (leading the league in pick-sixes, IIRC) and Shell had looked pretty good before coming here. Kornegay hadn't seemed like a long-term acquisition, and I think it was not completely unreasonable to see, at that time, his departure and the arrival of Parker and Shell as positive signs. We certainly thought so at the time. The bungling with respect to the D-line is, I think, less forgivable. If I remember correctly, most of us on this forum thought that, sad as it was, Mitchell had to go. So maybe that wasn't a mistake either, although we could sure use him now. The Julius Williams acquisition was a big mistake, no question, and, with hindsight, the moving of Keron Williams inside was a mistake, although he had thrived as an Eastern All-Star DT with the Alouettes before coming to the Lions. Thus, although his performance inside with the Lions hasn't been that good, I think the coaches could be forgiven for thinking that he might have returned to his all-star DT form. It seems to me now, that the only really obvious oversight was in not having a big, menacing 3-tech guy ready to replace Mitchell before letting him go. MLF has alluded to this before. So, although I agree that we've gone from a dominant defense to a mediocre one, we have to remember that hindsight is 20-20, and I don't think many of us on this forum saw this decline coming.SammyGreene wrote:I have a ton of respect of Rich Stubler as a defensive coordinator. His track record is outstanding. However, if he had a major say in the personnel decisions on the defensive side of the ball the past two seasons then he missed the mark on many of them.
Remember, he inherited a championship calibre defence when he arrived here in 2012. The Lions thrived with a six man defensive rotation with Mitchell an absolute beast in the middle. The line stays intact for 2012 but BC decides to tinker with the secondary bringing in two of Stubler's players from Toronto — Parker and Shell. The shuffle cost Tad Korengay his spot at halfback despite being an outstanding mid-season replacement after being cut by the Riders. Meanwhile Parker and Shell were ordinary at best with Parker losing his job after a nightmare Western Final.
Despite having the league best defence in 2012 the Lions decide to tinker again. Mitchell is considered too much of distraction and is traded. Luckily we get Cord Parks but Mitchell's presence is hugely missed. Did the Lions coaching staff not realize even though Mitchell's production was down, the constant double teams he faced opened up lanes for other d-lineman? Those type of NFL quality tackles just don't go on trees.
To make matters worse they believe Keron Williams, the league's best DE for the past 2 seasons, is capable of sliding inside, opening the door for the signing of Julius Williams to play DE. As we know Julius was a bust and Keron had probably the worst season of his career and his future as a Lion is in jeopardy.
Still irks me how we went from a dominant line just 2 years ago, with 2 of the league's best at their positions (Williams and Mitchell), to massive question marks across the board. Just a brutal job of personnel decisions by Wally, Benevides and Stubler trying to tinker with something that wasn't broken, despite Mitchell's antics.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One more D-end free agent that could have helped us lost to the NFL Chargers: Cordarro Law.
- WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Charleston Hughes leading the way.The Great Debate: Who is the league's top DL?
Posted: March 12, 2014 11:00 AM
Updated: March 12, 2014 12:11 PM
CFL.ca Staff
TORONTO -- They're big, they're fast, and they're ferociously doing anything in their power to stop the run or get to the quarterback.
They're the defensive linemen of the CFL, and we want to know who you think is the league's best.
With a wealth of talent in the trenches, it's difficult to pick just one who deserves the title as the league's best defensive lineman.
And to be quite honest, with names like Charleston Hughes, John Bowman, John Chick and Marcus Howard carrying the conversation, we're hard-pressed to come up with a definitive answer.
That's why we're putting the vote to you, the fans.
Best D Line in the league? I don't think the Lions will be getting many votes, unlike previous years.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Took a peek at the CFL.Ca site yesterday and it was the LineBackers they were asking for input on. Even added together the two BC LBers (Sol E., Bighill) were not getting much votes. Sherrit/Cox were leading by quite a margin......
The Lions have signed Brandon Jordan to a contract extension and Wally is praising him as an interior defensive lineman whose best is yet to come. Does he crack the starting lineup? Eric Taylor, Adrian Awasom and Jermaine Reid are also listed as interior linemen on the roster. Interestingly, Jabar Westerman is now listed as a defensive end, along with Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson and Steven Doege, with more prospects to be added before training camp.
BCLions.com Staff
The BC Lions Football Club announced this morning that defensive lineman Brandon Jordan has signed a contract extension with the team.
Jordan appeared in 12 games last season including nine as a starter at defensive tackle. Showing steady improvement during his second season as a pro, Brandon more than doubled his defensive tackles from seven as a rookie in 2012 to19 last season along with four sacks.
“Brandon has developed into a talented interior defensive lineman and I believe his best football is still to come,” said VP of football operations and GM Wally Buono.
Taking advantage of increased playing time, Jordan enjoyed a terrific mid-season run in 2013 with three sacks over a two-game span including a pair versus Montreal on September 15.
“Brandon comes to work each day with a willingness to do whatever it takes to improve and contribute to our defence,” said head coach Mike Benevides. “He possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line and our expectations of Brandon heading into this season are a reflection of his tremendous growth as a player.”
- WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Good to hear. He kind of fell into a black hole for a while, after earlier showing energy and some talent.B.C.FAN wrote:The Lions have signed Brandon Jordan to a contract extension and Wally is praising him as an interior defensive lineman whose best is yet to come. Does he crack the starting lineup? Eric Taylor, Adrian Awasom and Jermaine Reid are also listed as interior linemen on the roster. Interestingly, Jabar Westerman is now listed as a defensive end, along with Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson and Steven Doege, with more prospects to be added before training camp.
BCLions.com Staff
The BC Lions Football Club announced this morning that defensive lineman Brandon Jordan has signed a contract extension with the team.
Jordan appeared in 12 games last season including nine as a starter at defensive tackle. Showing steady improvement during his second season as a pro, Brandon more than doubled his defensive tackles from seven as a rookie in 2012 to19 last season along with four sacks.
“Brandon has developed into a talented interior defensive lineman and I believe his best football is still to come,” said VP of football operations and GM Wally Buono.
Taking advantage of increased playing time, Jordan enjoyed a terrific mid-season run in 2013 with three sacks over a two-game span including a pair versus Montreal on September 15.
“Brandon comes to work each day with a willingness to do whatever it takes to improve and contribute to our defence,” said head coach Mike Benevides. “He possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line and our expectations of Brandon heading into this season are a reflection of his tremendous growth as a player.”
I liked what we saw in his brief opportunities. His weight can go up and down. He played O Line at one time with a weight well over 300.
We need youth on the D Line. And energy. And strength. And mobility. He has all of those qualities.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
-
- Legend
- Posts: 2779
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 am
- Location: Vancouver weekdays; Gulf Islands on weekends
Glad to hear the 'more prospects to be added before training camp' part. At 6-5, 255, it's pretty hard for me to understand Benevides' comment "He [Jordan] possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line...." What's needed to be "a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line" is either (a) a true 3-technique DT (or under tackle), who's big, quick, and able to stunt, or (b) a 1-tech guy who can require double teams from the centre and guard. Somebody about Eric Taylor's size (6-2, 309) or bigger and very strong (like Khalif Mitchell) would do nicely at either D-line position. At this stage, the D-line does not look very good, and Jordan's extension doesn't give me much reason for optimism.B.C.FAN wrote:The Lions have signed Brandon Jordan to a contract extension and Wally is praising him as an interior defensive lineman whose best is yet to come. Does he crack the starting lineup? Eric Taylor, Adrian Awasom and Jermaine Reid are also listed as interior linemen on the roster. Interestingly, Jabar Westerman is now listed as a defensive end, along with Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson and Steven Doege, with more prospects to be added before training camp.
BCLions.com Staff
The BC Lions Football Club announced this morning that defensive lineman Brandon Jordan has signed a contract extension with the team.
Jordan appeared in 12 games last season including nine as a starter at defensive tackle. Showing steady improvement during his second season as a pro, Brandon more than doubled his defensive tackles from seven as a rookie in 2012 to19 last season along with four sacks.
“Brandon has developed into a talented interior defensive lineman and I believe his best football is still to come,” said VP of football operations and GM Wally Buono.
Taking advantage of increased playing time, Jordan enjoyed a terrific mid-season run in 2013 with three sacks over a two-game span including a pair versus Montreal on September 15.
“Brandon comes to work each day with a willingness to do whatever it takes to improve and contribute to our defence,” said head coach Mike Benevides. “He possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line and our expectations of Brandon heading into this season are a reflection of his tremendous growth as a player.”
- MexicoLionFan
- Legend
- Posts: 2051
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm
South Pender wrote:Glad to hear the 'more prospects to be added before training camp' part. At 6-5, 255, it's pretty hard for me to understand Benevides' comment "He [Jordan] possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line...." What's needed to be "a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line" is either (a) a true 3-technique DT (or under tackle), who's big, quick, and able to stunt, or (b) a 1-tech guy who can require double teams from the centre and guard. Somebody about Eric Taylor's size (6-2, 309) or bigger and very strong (like Khalif Mitchell) would do nicely at either D-line position. At this stage, the D-line does not look very good, and Jordan's extension doesn't give me much reason for optimism.B.C.FAN wrote:The Lions have signed Brandon Jordan to a contract extension and Wally is praising him as an interior defensive lineman whose best is yet to come. Does he crack the starting lineup? Eric Taylor, Adrian Awasom and Jermaine Reid are also listed as interior linemen on the roster. Interestingly, Jabar Westerman is now listed as a defensive end, along with Khreem Smith, Chris Wilson and Steven Doege, with more prospects to be added before training camp.
BCLions.com Staff
The BC Lions Football Club announced this morning that defensive lineman Brandon Jordan has signed a contract extension with the team.
Jordan appeared in 12 games last season including nine as a starter at defensive tackle. Showing steady improvement during his second season as a pro, Brandon more than doubled his defensive tackles from seven as a rookie in 2012 to19 last season along with four sacks.
“Brandon has developed into a talented interior defensive lineman and I believe his best football is still to come,” said VP of football operations and GM Wally Buono.
Taking advantage of increased playing time, Jordan enjoyed a terrific mid-season run in 2013 with three sacks over a two-game span including a pair versus Montreal on September 15.
“Brandon comes to work each day with a willingness to do whatever it takes to improve and contribute to our defence,” said head coach Mike Benevides. “He possesses the ability to be a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line and our expectations of Brandon heading into this season are a reflection of his tremendous growth as a player.”
SP, I would have said that word for word...I agree completely...this is NO answer...and I promise you Awasom won't make the final roster...if you want to win football games, especially in NOV, you have to win the battle of the LOS...and on both sides, there are huge concerns...not unfixable, but major problems...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
FYI, Korey Banks sent a rather cryptic Tweet out to Ted Laurent today.
DH
Gee, I wonder what Korey's advice to Ted would be about signing with BC?? **rolls eyes**@tedlaurent be wise in your selection when it comes to your CFL future. Reach out to other players and ask question.
DH
Roar, You Lions, Roar
- WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Korey is a warrior. He doesn't like how he feels he was treated, whether that is warranted or not.David wrote:FYI, Korey Banks sent a rather cryptic Tweet out to Ted Laurent today.
Gee, I wonder what Korey's advice to Ted would be about signing with BC?? **rolls eyes**@tedlaurent be wise in your selection when it comes to your CFL future. Reach out to other players and ask question.
DH
Seems pretty obvious he is making a shot at Wally and the Lions organization.
Not nice to send a tweet to Laurent like that. Not nice at all. His action has burned bridges with the Lions. Not a nice tweet. And it may have the intended effect of preventing Laurent from signing here.
Is Wally's method as a GM old school? Or is Korey too sensitive? Not sure. Has the contractual game changed?
Not a happy development. And it might indicate that the game has changed. If players feel hard done by, they can resort to Twitter, or to the media. In the very old days, players had no recourse. One could say Wally could have avoided the hard feelings. But they might have happened no matter how Wally conducted business. Korey just might be the kind of guy who leaves, in a bad mood, and makes some parting shots.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
- SammyGreene
- Team Captain
- Posts: 8079
- Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am
LU reporting today it's looking more and more like Keron Williams will be playing elsewhere this season. Has apparently left Vancouver and moved back to Florida. Yes a poor season for #9 in 2013 but the Lions are also partially to blame by moving the league's best DE to tackle. At the very least, Wally should match the dollar value of his previous contract on a 2 yr deal given what he has done in BC prior to last season's bungled experiment and especially the lack of signing anyone this off-season.
We're not budging on the last offer to Williams but content on bringing back a soon to be 35 year old Khreem Smith next season? LU also reporting Lions waiting word on if Westerman will entertain an extension or play out his option to play closer to his Ontario roots in 2015. Given this team's serious lack of non-import talent, that would be a huge loss.
We're not budging on the last offer to Williams but content on bringing back a soon to be 35 year old Khreem Smith next season? LU also reporting Lions waiting word on if Westerman will entertain an extension or play out his option to play closer to his Ontario roots in 2015. Given this team's serious lack of non-import talent, that would be a huge loss.
Well, since Jordan was a 325lb offensive guard in college, I'm sure Buono is looking at Jordan getting back up to the 290-300lb range if he wants him to play in the interior of the dline.....his 255lb playing weight was better suited to DE and he was FAST for a dlineman......hopefully extra weight doesn't diminish his speed too much. I can see why the Lions are high on him.South Pender wrote: What's needed to be "a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line" is either (a) a true 3-technique DT (or under tackle), who's big, quick, and able to stunt, or (b) a 1-tech guy who can require double teams from the centre and guard. Somebody about Eric Taylor's size (6-2, 309) or bigger and very strong (like Khalif Mitchell) would do nicely at either D-line position. At this stage, the D-line does not look very good, and Jordan's extension doesn't give me much reason for optimism.
Lloyd
Be flexible and try to adapt to the Coaches but it ends up with you having a bad year. I hope that time heals this and Williams ends up back as a DE.........SammyGreene wrote:LU reporting today it's looking more and more like Keron Williams will be playing elsewhere this season. Has apparently left Vancouver and moved back to Florida. Yes a poor season for #9 in 2013 but the Lions are also partially to blame by moving the league's best DE to tackle. At the very least, Wally should match the dollar value of his previous contract on a 2 yr deal given what he has done in BC prior to last season's bungled experiment and especially the lack of signing anyone this off-season.
We're not budging on the last offer to Williams but content on bringing back a soon to be 35 year old Khreem Smith next season? LU also reporting Lions waiting word on if Westerman will entertain an extension or play out his option to play closer to his Ontario roots in 2015. Given this team's serious lack of non-import talent, that would be a huge loss.
Doesn't really matter, I guess, but it would seem weird having a player from another team (assuming he catches on elsewhere, but I think he will) being the designer of your Grey Cup logo....
-
- Legend
- Posts: 2779
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 am
- Location: Vancouver weekdays; Gulf Islands on weekends
I don't know. That kind of change in weight strikes me as unhealthy and highly unusual. For Wally to expect Jordan to put on 45 lbs. seems bizarre to me (not that we know that he's expecting that, and frankly I doubt that he is), and not exactly advisable metabolically. Keron Williams, you may recall, put on 10 lbs., not 40, to move from DE inside. We need a guy who has played at 310 lbs, give or take, for some time on the defensive, not offensive, line. Based on what we saw of Jordan last season, I can't see why the Lions are high on him, although he did seem to have the occasional burst of promise two seasons ago. Just my $.02.Shi Zi Mi wrote:Well, since Jordan was a 325lb offensive guard in college, I'm sure Buono is looking at Jordan getting back up to the 290-300lb range if he wants him to play in the interior of the dline.....his 255lb playing weight was better suited to DE and he was FAST for a dlineman......hopefully extra weight doesn't diminish his speed too much. I can see why the Lions are high on him.South Pender wrote: What's needed to be "a game-changer in the middle of the defensive line" is either (a) a true 3-technique DT (or under tackle), who's big, quick, and able to stunt, or (b) a 1-tech guy who can require double teams from the centre and guard. Somebody about Eric Taylor's size (6-2, 309) or bigger and very strong (like Khalif Mitchell) would do nicely at either D-line position. At this stage, the D-line does not look very good, and Jordan's extension doesn't give me much reason for optimism.