Lions' O Line for 2014 - Montreal shows how to build an OL

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WestCoastJoe
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We have some big time concerns here, it seems to me.

From the roster, as of 20140213.

Angus Reid, 37

Dean Valli, 30

Matt Norman, 25

Patrick Kabongo, 34

Kirby Fabien, 23
.....................

Angus Reid must be considering retirement. How much can we count on him playing, staying healthy, and contributing?

I seem to support and believe in Dean Valli more than some. I am OK with him at guard.

Matt Norman saved our bacon last year. Hopefully he can carry on without backsliding.

Patrick Kabongo. I support him for his play.

Kirby Fabien. We hope for a full recovery for Kirby. No guarantee for that.
................

That is it. Our non import O Linemen.

We have lost Matt Albright, Steve Myddleton and Adam Baboulas.

Let's say we get four of our guys to play. That means we suit up 4, with no one else on the practice roster.

We will no doubt draft an O Lineman, or two, or three.

We might have to trade for a non import lineman.

Free agency NI guys would seem to be out of the question, as guys have left us for "greener pastures."
............

Go to 3 imports in the O Line? Yes, we can fall back on that measure. Our situation is just about that sad, IMO.

Hunter Steward? Hmmmm ... NFL draft coming up. NFL hopes. Who knows?

IMO our present status with the NI O Line roster ain't pretty. In fact it might almost be close to a shambles. Reid? Fabien? Start Kabongo and Valli again. Go with 3 imports?

And the same regime since 2003 drafting and coaching. The O Line always seemingly a concern.
................

Gonna need some things go our way. Not exactly a strength at this time. Build a team around the O Line? A strength of the team?

Last year things did go our way, with Matt Norman coming through for us. Kirby Fabien was as good as one could hope. But we are thin. No depth whatsoever.

A very big concern. And bigger now with how things have gone in free agency.

Raising the alarm? Yeah. Looking for that cliff, as they say in Riderville? LOL ... No. I am not a teenage kid, with massive hopes and emotional investments in a team. But concerned.
..........

Anthony Daley, 20 Junior with the Langley Rams, on the roster, 6'3" 279
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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WestCoastJoe
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Imports.

Ben Archibald, 35

Jovan Olafioye, 26

That is all the imports I see on our roster.

The Lions must be considering retiring Ben Archibald. And he must be considering it also.

The imports on the O Line come from a large pool of American players. Should not be a problem.

It is the non imports that give me cause for concern. No depth whatsoever. And this involves drafting and developing since 2003.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TheLionKing
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Valli and Kabongo IMO should be backups at best. Archibald's best days have passed him by.
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MexicoLionFan
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Thanks for creating these 2 threads Joe, it had to be done...this is where we will or won't win another Championship, and right now, ON BOTH SIDES its not looking great...not all doom and gloom, but with the huge misses so far in FA, its a very big concern...

I now honestly think, we MUST have Hunter Steward sign with us...Wally needs to buck tradition, and give the kid a sound offer to begin his career here...if he does, he'll start, day one...

Reid is done, Valli is NOTHING more than a serviceable backup...I don't think Kabongo is even that...

Joe has done a wonderful job explaining how we got here, so I don't need to go over that, but obviously a top flight tackle via the NFL or FA tryout camps is absolutely necessary, because Archibald isn't coming back either...but at least one more OL must come from a trade...there's no other way to it...we must obtain a decent OLineman via a trade AND STiLL count on Fabien recovering 100%...as Lloyd said, Wally has put us in this situation, no one other, and now its time for him to fix it...
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WestCoastJoe
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MexicoLionFan wrote:Thanks for creating these 2 threads Joe, it had to be done...this is where we will or won't win another Championship, and right now, ON BOTH SIDES its not looking great...not all doom and gloom, but with the huge misses so far in FA, its a very big concern...
Well, we Lionbackers are passionate fans, MLF.

Last year, preseason, I did not have all that much concern about our O Line. As indicated, I think we are OK with Dean Valli and Patrick Kabongo, although they are not likely to approach All Star status. We had Kirby Fabien signed eventually. Matt Norman looked so good as a young player. We had Baboulas. We drafted Albright.

Even so, we still had to trade for backup Steve Myddleton.

This year it is kind of scary. Losing Myddleton, Baboulas and Albright. Yikes.

Reid very iffy.

Fabien on rehab.

Still with Kabongo and Valli, to the discomfort of some fans.

Yes, we can go with 3 imports, although to me, that is an admission that we do not really have a handle on how to build an NI O Line roster, how to teach and coach and develop them. Just look at the draft picks since 2003 and who is left.

Also going with 3 imports, as I am sure we will hear in preseason as part of some discussion, severely limits our ratio flexibility.

Whatever, we are just fans, back seat drivers. But we love our team.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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I think a decent O-line can be achieved. I'm in the camp that sees Valli and Kabongo as strictly backups, not starting material. But we do already have 3 guys who can start in Olafioye, Norman, and Fabien (I'm assuming a full recovery by the season's opener). So we need two more starters. MLF may be right about Reid, but, if he has healed and has one more season in him, we could move Norman back to guard and be only one import tackle away from a respectable O-line. Since it shouldn't be that hard to find a young import O-tackle to replace Archibald, it's not looking so bad. And, as MLF says, if Hunter Steward comes, we should be fine, Reid or no Reid. If all else failed, we could bring in an import guard (which should be much easier than maybe trading for a NI guard), giving us 3 import starters on the O-line. I think we might have enough ratio flexibility to do this with Moore gone now, and some adjustments made to the receiving corps. This analysis doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about our O-line; I am. We don't want another season of Lulay running for his life and getting hurt. But I see this position group as one that we might be OK with, although certain things will have to happen for this to be the case.

I'm much more concerned about our D-line. Since the starters there have been predominantly imports, will Wally, Roy, et al., be able to find us the import strength in the middle we need? But this is an O-line thread, so I'll shut up now about that.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.cfl.ca/article/fa14-bombers- ... ree-agency
One place Winnipeg didn't get better was on its offensive line.

Free agent starting centre Justin Sorenson signed with the Edmonton Eskimos after highly touted veteran free agent tackle Josh Bourke re-signed with the Montreal Alouettes.

"The Canadian offensive linemen are always at a premium,'' said Walters. "There was few in free agency this year and the guys want to go to free agency and see what they can get and you can't blame them.''

He added that the Bombers will "continue to grow the guys we have'' and try to gain more through the Canadian draft because "there's no short-term fix at the Canadian offensive lineman position.''
"The Canadian offensive linemen are always at a premium." ... Agreed.

"there's no short-term fix at the Canadian offensive lineman position." ... Agreed.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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cromartie
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Reid is done, Valli is NOTHING more than a serviceable backup...I don't think Kabongo is even that...
Reid is probably done. But I think you have this backwards. It's Valli that's done and Kabongo who is a servicable swing guy.
Blitz
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Its an interesting topic.

Our offensive line looked dynamite during our last three games of the season, as Joystick and Harris racked up an average of over 200 yards per game between them. That was impressive.

However we still need to upgrade our offensive line.

Matt Norman - it was his first season as a full time starter last year and he had never played center before and came into training camp with the direction of being our right guard while understudying Reid for the season. It didn;t work out that way as Reid went down early and stayed down with his back injury. Its a tough learning curve at center and usually takes 2-3 seasons to develop as a center, even when starting. Norman improved thoughout the season and should be better this year.

Kirby Fabian. I loved they guy before he signed with our Lions and was thrilled we finally got him signed last year. He got the starting right guard spot with an impressive training camp and looked like he was going to have a great rookie season when he went down with his kneee injury. Knee reconstruction is major and sometimes the lingering effects can remain in the sub-conscious. Hopefully Fabian has made a full recovery. If he has we are set at right guard. If not, it means that either Valli or Kobongo will need to be the back-up offensive lineman but neither should be projected as starters.

Left Guard - Hunter Stewart could be the answer here but it will depend on whether he gets an NFL shot or not and whether we can get him singed if he doesn't.

Right Tackle - Oliofoye is an excellent right offensive tackle who struggled with some back issues for part of last season. We could switch him over to the left tackle spot, as we did for a time in his first year, but its a different side to block and I think we would be better to leave him where he is.

Left Tackle. This is our major area of concern. Stewart could play tackle but I would prefer to use him as a guard and play an import to protect the blind side of Lulay/Pierce. Its a tough position to play but there will be a lot of imports available and we need to priorize this spot for 2014. Archibald was an outstanding tackle in his first season with us but he has slid and we need to get younger and more athletic there.

If Stewart signs with out Leos and Fabian recovers fully from his injury then I think we are in decent shape on the offensive line. We would have two backups in Valli and Kabongo who have been starters and could step in with their experience. We should also be drafting an offensive lineman high in the CFL draft for depth and the future.

However, if Stuart does not arrive or Fabian is not fully recovered then the challenge is greater.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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MexicoLionFan
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SP, if Angus can play one more season, then it takes a TON of heat off of the line...but I still maintain we have got to get lucky with Hunter Steward...if Wally can give the kid a 6 figure contract out of college for 3 years, we will be alright, but boy, are we ever thin...
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WestCoastJoe
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Checking the FA lists, I do not see any possible help there for us with our NI O Line roster.

I would not be surprised if, once again, we draft at least two O Linemen. More grist for Dan Dorazio's mill. If we have middling success this year, and if we have O Line foibles once again, perhaps Wally will see that it is time to release another veteran coach, another lifer in Wally's World.

Or maybe we hit a couple of more home runs in the draft, as with Matt Norman and Kirby Fabien. But that has not been our pattern over the years since 2003. A great many more misses than hits, with little to show for it.

Let's say that out of our 5 NI guys on the roster that we get 4 to play, with pretty good health. And let's say that we draft a couple more. That would give us 6 guys for 3 positions. A workable number. I get the impression that O Line high draft picks can do rather well in their first year in the CFL. We have seen it over and over. No reason this year cannot be the same.

And then of course, in desperation, as last year with Steve Myddleton, we can trade for a backup NI O Lineman.

Certainly not the end of the world with our O Line situation. But long time fans do get weary of the drama, the wasted picks, the lack of development, and the seeming crisis, year after year.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
OV - 54:40
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The Lions should be looking at an O-Lineman in this year's draft; one who might make most sense is Laval's several time all-star C Pierre Lavertu; could possilby be an instant starter (like Brent Jones was last season to win ROY), and this would allow Norman to move over to his natural guard position.
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WestCoastJoe
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OV - 54:40 wrote:The Lions should be looking at an O-Lineman in this year's draft; one who might make most sense is Laval's several time all-star C Pierre Lavertu; could possilby be an instant starter (like Brent Jones was last season to win ROY), and this would allow Norman to move over to his natural guard position.
For sure, OV. Problem being we draft #5. Levertu is rated #2. It would be nice if he fell into our range. Unlikely methinks.

More discussion here ...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27426&start=15#p338614
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TheLionKing
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Even if the Lions managed to get him, the chances of his starting is slim. Big difference from a college all star to be the key on the offensive line especially at centre.
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JohnHenry
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If the Lions can't find competent Canadian OL players, the smart move might be to incorporate 3 imports into the OL. Protecting the QB is crucial for success in the CFL, which is more important than starting 3 import receivers or 11 imports on defence. Having another Oliofoye-quality OL'man, to protect Travis and punch holes for Harris and Logan, might give the Lions offence a boost (and help keep Travis upright).

The Lions could go with a traditional 4-receiver set, rather than the 5 or 6-pack. Then keep Lumbala in to pass block along with Harris and Logan who would be receiver options out of the backfield. Harris (or Logan) could line-up at slotback in some formations and go out on pass patterns. Harris might be the best non-import receiver on the team.

The Lions could start Westerman on the DL (with the acquisition of a competent backup) giving the team more flexibility on offence (allowing Kory Williams or S. Logan to be inserted more frequently if a 3rd import OL is starting).
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