Lions' O Line for 2014 - Montreal shows how to build an OL

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TheLionKing
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We'll know soon enough whether Brandon is deserving to be starting after 3-4 practices.
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WestCoastJoe
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From Mike Beamish in the Sun ...
the Lions also go into The Ottawa game with two unknown qualities -- left tackle Cory Brandon and right guard Cody Husband -- protecting Lulay's precious hide. Brandon, replacing injured starter Hunter Steward, has never played a CFL game. Husband, subbing for injured Dean Valli, hasn't started a CFL game in two seasons.
Are we getting used to this?
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/chris_schultz/?id=461255
SCHULTZ: THE REASON WHY STAMPS AND RIDERS ARE BEST SO FAR

The two best teams in the Canadian Football League are the Calgary Stampeders and the Saskatchewan Roughriders. They are the two best not because of any perimeter player but due to the offensive line of scrimmage players, the lineman.

To date Calgary has only given up a league-best 12 quarterback sacks and the next best, Saskatchewan, has allowed only 22. It is true that quarterbacks limit sacks by getting rid of the football quickly. Running backs who block blitzing linebackers help too, and receivers who adjust to open areas are the first two elements, but to pass protect you need very good guards, tackles and a smart centre. Saskatchewan and Calgary have the best.

In the run game no one can run the football better than Saskatchewan. They are No. 1 and use three backs to get it done - Anthony Allen, Will Ford and Jerome Messam. The second-best running team? Calgary. They at one time depended on five running backs but now that Jon Cornish is back they only need one, Jon Cornish. Dave Dickenson for Calgary and George Cortez for Saskatchewan do the play calling and if not for that commitment to that element of football you can't perform in the run game but they don't create the collisions. You can also make an argument that the Stamps and Riders have the best two defensive lines, but I will wait for a little later in the season before I make that statement.

Week 11 started with BC and Ottawa and 7 to 5 was the final score. You gotta be kidding. Football is only entertaining when certain aspects of the game are present or avoided. It is a great game when there are a limited amount of penalties, very few two-and-outs for both offences and some drama as to who is going to win throughout the fourth quarter, especially in the last three minutes. But more than anything the more the lead changes, the better. When one team takes the lead in points, then the other, then the other again the game is great. But at 7-5, not so great.

Last Friday was the lowest scoring game since 1979 and I hope it never happens again. The fan response in Ottawa has been very good and I hope it continues. And hopefully the fans in the stands can watch a 41-34 game and see the Redblacks win as Calgary did against Edmonton on Saturday night. Three times now this year the Stampeders have beaten Edmonton. In Week 5, Calgary 26, Edmonton 22 in Edmonton. Week 11, Calgary 28, Edmonton 13 in Calgary and last Saturday in Edmonton again, Calgary won 41-34. Now Edmonton can rationalize the losses away by saying in the first one we self imploded with six turnovers and in the other two we did not have our starting quarterback Mike Reilly. That is what I would do, rationalize.

But truth is these two teams will most likely meet in the playoffs at some point and Calgary has the psychological edge of confidence over Edmonton and confidence is critical in winning football. Yes by the time November rolls around what happens in September means very little, or does it? This is the first real adversity to hit Edmonton all year as in the first half of the season all fell into place very smoothly. Now with two straight losses the invincibility attitude is no longer present.
And credit to the O Line coaches, Pat DelMonaco with the Stampeders and Doug Malone with the Riders.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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notahomer
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Read in one of today's pieces that there is an 'in-house' O-line award that was not given out last game (versus Redblacks). I wonder what award it is and is it Benevides who chooses.

IIRC, the Lions used to give out a sledgehammer award to a player, but I can't remember why. I've seen the Canucks with some kinda 'haida hat' that I think is supposed to mean something.

I don't know what the Oline award is but anytime your starting QB gets injured, I support it not being given out. I realize it was not their fault Lulay got injured, though.....
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notahomer
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

Good piece, IMO by LU (the province) outlining Dorazio and others comments on this and other seasons versions of the Lions O-line....
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WestCoastJoe
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notahomer wrote:http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

Good piece, IMO by LU (the province) outlining Dorazio and others comments on this and other seasons versions of the Lions O-line....
Thanks for posting, nota. Excellent piece by Lowell.
“Not good enough,” Dorazio said after a long pause, when asked about the work of his position group and the most recent near disaster against the Ottawa Redblacks. “We didn’t play well. We did not compete well. We did not coach well.”
Then ask him what it’s like to watch another franchise quarterback, Travis Lulay, take a hit that could possibly end his career, even if it wasn’t a blow that could be blamed on anyone in his unit, and the response is the same.

“Awful. Not good. Annoying. Mad. Don’t like it,” Dorazio said, his voice starting to rise. “I don’t want to ever see him touched.”
But the elephant in the room with the Lions has been both the inability to keep quarterbacks healthy over the years and, as they have demonstrated over the past two touchdown-free games, to provide any kind of running game.
In the four games the Lions have scored 20 or fewer points this year, tailbacks Andrew Harris and Stefan Logan have averaged just 41 yards from 15 carries. Offensive co-ordinator Khari Jones gave them enough touches. Dorazio’s group couldn’t produce holes for them.

That inability to generate a ground game on first down has signalled an all-out attack by opposing defences in passing situations, and the Lions have been powerless to get it stopped.
He showed his players tape of former tackle Rob Murphy, whose aggression won him two top-lineman awards while with the Lions. But Murphy played with a veteran cast who were able to grasp the complexities of Dorazio’s ways. Murphy didn’t disagree when asked if younger players might struggle in Dorazio’s system.

“Dan is still like a second father to me, but it takes some getting used to him,” said Murphy from his home near Jacksonville, Fla. “He’s an awesome technician. At the same time, linemen just coming into the league are just trying to keep their head above water.”
Not sure what good it would do showing film of Rob Murphy to new linemen. Can they play like Murphy, or is that setting the bar impossibly high?

"the complexity of Dorazio's ways" ... Been thinking that for years.

"younger players might struggle in Dorazio's system" ... Been thinking that also.

And, as Angus Reid points out, our O Line seems to do better when we keep it simple.

Buono stepped in last year and had Dorazio adjust the blocking schemes. Will he do it again this year? Will it make any difference? Is the confidence level too low at this time?

No holes for Harris or Logan. No running game. No protection for the QB when the defence brings the heat.

At some point, one has to look at the coaching. It is the common denominator in this case, it seems to me.

Jacques Chapdelaine and Rich Stubler were cast adrift, seemingly at Benny's prompting, after last year. Were they the problem? Over their careers, they both had much success. Is the glare of the spotlight going to settle on Mike Benevides, and long serving Dan Dorazio?

New left tackle once again in Jermarcus Hardrick. Dean Valli back to right guard. Cameron Thorn to left guard. That is three switches since last game. Yikes. We've been here before, but the schmozzle seems worse this time around. Can we keep Kevin Glenn healthy? Can we generate a ground game, with actual holes for Harris and Logan? One cannot help but notice the highways Jon Cornish gets to run through. Untouched for 7 yards, with a head of steam.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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SammyGreene
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WestCoastJoe wrote: New left tackle once again in Jermarcus Hardrick. Dean Valli back to right guard. Cameron Thorn to left guard. That is three switches since last game. Yikes. We've been here before, but the schmozzle seems worse this time around. Can we keep Kevin Glenn healthy? Can we generate a ground game, with actual holes for Harris and Logan? One cannot help but notice the highways Jon Cornish gets to run through. Untouched for 7 yards, with a head of steam.
And apparently Norman's spot is not completely safe too accordng to LU.
Mike Benevides confirmed the club will pull Jermarcus Hardrick off the six-game injured list to play left tackle, which is a fairly strong indictment against Cory Brandon, who was available for practice Wednesday. It also appears as if Kirby Fabien will be replaced by Cam Thorn, a second-year non-import who may well get a chance to be worked in at centre, another indictment of some degree of Matt Norman.
Holy smokes WC Joe my head is spinning. The Mad Scientist at it again. Almost like he is rolling dice and this is the combination for this week. So Thorn will make his career debut in a crucial division game against the Bombers? Wow nothing like baptism by fire.

Hardrick's only start this season was at left guard not tackle when he got hurt although he did back-up Steward I think. LOL

Should be another fun night at BC Place.
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WestCoastJoe
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SammyGreene wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote: New left tackle once again in Jermarcus Hardrick. Dean Valli back to right guard. Cameron Thorn to left guard. That is three switches since last game. Yikes. We've been here before, but the schmozzle seems worse this time around. Can we keep Kevin Glenn healthy? Can we generate a ground game, with actual holes for Harris and Logan? One cannot help but notice the highways Jon Cornish gets to run through. Untouched for 7 yards, with a head of steam.
And apparently Norman's spot is not completely safe too accordng to LU.
Mike Benevides confirmed the club will pull Jermarcus Hardrick off the six-game injured list to play left tackle, which is a fairly strong indictment against Cory Brandon, who was available for practice Wednesday. It also appears as if Kirby Fabien will be replaced by Cam Thorn, a second-year non-import who may well get a chance to be worked in at centre, another indictment of some degree of Matt Norman.
Holy smokes WC Joe my head is spinning. The Mad Scientist at it again. Almost like he is rolling dice and this is the combination for this week. So Thorn will make his career debut in a crucial division game against the Bombers? Wow nothing like baptism by fire.

Hardrick's only start this season was at left guard not tackle when he got hurt although he did back-up Steward I think. LOL

Should be another fun night at BC Place.
It is a head shaker, Sammy.

Cory Brandon to the bench. Kirby Fabien to the bench. Cody Husband to the bench. It seems Kirby Fabien and Matt Norman have backslid to a degree.

And yet we are 6 and 4. With the gift of a 3rd place finish in the East staring us in the face.

No worries? LOL ... Well, we are somewhere on the pendulum between the patience of Wally Buono and his survival instincts, as he guides the Lions' ship.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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More from the article by Lowell Ullrich ...
Against Ottawa, the Lions effectively started two left-side rookies in Cory Brandon and Kirby Fabien, with sophomore centre Matt Norman and Cory Husband, who had not started a game in two seasons, at right guard. Nobody excelled. Even right tackle Jovan Olafioye was responsible for a safety.

None of them were solely responsible for Lulay’s demise, just as none could be accused of allowing the series of blows that ultimately spelled the end of Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce as quarterbacks who spent a portion of their careers with the Lions.
It is Dorazio who has been the closest to the carnage, responsible for assembling a group that has been unable to stay together.
Some Lions success in the past has been linked to a point where general manager Wally Buono leaned on Dorazio and coach Mike Benevides to make adjustments to the blocking schemes.
“It seems whenever we simplified things we would get better,” said former Lions centre and Province columnist Angus Reid.
“We were horsesh-t (against Ottawa). The run game was pathetic, and we didn’t give the backs a chance,” Buono said.
Not blaming the backs this year. :thup:
“But that’s got nothing to do with what we’ve done all year. When we have our best five players I believe our line is as good as anybody. Jovan and Dean need to step up and be men.”
Five best players? Olafioye. Valli gets the coach's nod. Norman. Fabien. And Steward is injured. Four are available. And we have gone through perpaps 14 left tackles. The tinkering and the endless search goes on. Three benched from last game. Confidence is a huge issue here, it seems to me. Lack of confidence. The staff tries something. The staff finds the players wanting. Confidence down the drain. Next. I always recall Vince Lombardi. Took over the Packers when they were a mess. Players lacked confidence. Even Paul Hornung, who had played some RB, some QB, etc. Lombardi told him: "You're my left halfback." And Lombardi kept things simple. He worked them hard. The players knew what to do. They found they could do it. And their confidence grew. Gotta keep it simple. Gotta keep the confidence up.

Jovan and Dean? Blaming the O Linemen, the players. Yes, let the players solve it. When "Wally Buono leaned on Dorazio and coach Mike Benevides to make adjustments to the blocking schemes" last year, that was not on the players. Is it schemes this year? Or is it more of a fundamental lack of confidence, eroding the skill level? Is it too much stuff in the heads? Too much tinkering with the lineup? Presumably Brandon, Fabien and Husband are healthy, and now benched. And the revolving door brings in Hardrick, Thorn and Valli. Will Brandon be released? How does one assess a train wreck? It seems to be just about impossible to assemble a highly functioning O Line. For us, anyway.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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B.C.FAN
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TSN analyst Paul LaPolice has written a highly technical overview of pass protection, focusing on the centre's reads and calls at the line of scrimmage and how the linemen, running backs and QB must be on the same page.

LAPOLICE: THE TERMS WITHIN THE GAME OF FOOTBALL

It illustrates why it's essential for an offensive line to play together for a considerable time to be able to communicate and play as a cohesive unit. This season has been disastrous for the Lions' offensive line from the standpoint of the shuffling that has taken place as a result of injuries, ineffectiveness or just plain tinkering. Last week was a disaster in the making when the Lions decided to go with two new starters on the O-line, one of them brought in just days earlier. This week doesn't look much better. At least Hardrick and Thorn have been around the team for a while.

As for Norman, I haven't seen many comments on his play this year. There were a lot of positive comments about his intelligence when he was thrust into the centre position on an emergency basis last year. Without the right calls from the centre, the offensive line will fall apart. I thought Norman's play improved toward the end of last season as he gained experience. This year he seems to have regressed but it might be due to the revolving door at three of the other four positions on the line.
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
SammyGreene wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote: New left tackle once again in Jermarcus Hardrick. Dean Valli back to right guard. Cameron Thorn to left guard. That is three switches since last game. Yikes. We've been here before, but the schmozzle seems worse this time around. Can we keep Kevin Glenn healthy? Can we generate a ground game, with actual holes for Harris and Logan? One cannot help but notice the highways Jon Cornish gets to run through. Untouched for 7 yards, with a head of steam.
And apparently Norman's spot is not completely safe too accordng to LU.
Mike Benevides confirmed the club will pull Jermarcus Hardrick off the six-game injured list to play left tackle, which is a fairly strong indictment against Cory Brandon, who was available for practice Wednesday. It also appears as if Kirby Fabien will be replaced by Cam Thorn, a second-year non-import who may well get a chance to be worked in at centre, another indictment of some degree of Matt Norman.
Holy smokes WC Joe my head is spinning. The Mad Scientist at it again. Almost like he is rolling dice and this is the combination for this week. So Thorn will make his career debut in a crucial division game against the Bombers? Wow nothing like baptism by fire.

Hardrick's only start this season was at left guard not tackle when he got hurt although he did back-up Steward I think. LOL

Should be another fun night at BC Place.
It is a head shaker, Sammy.

Cory Brandon to the bench. Kirby Fabien to the bench. Cody Husband to the bench. It seems Kirby Fabien and Matt Norman have backslid to a degree.

And yet we are 6 and 4. With the gift of a 3rd place finish in the East staring us in the face.

No worries? LOL ... Well, we are somewhere on the pendulum between the patience of Wally Buono and his survival instincts, as he guides the Lions' ship.
The greatest factor in an OL's success is continuity. I'm still very high on this young group believing the biggest thing they need is an opportunity to play as a unit for an extended period of time. So far this year they've not started the same 5 OL more than 2 games in a row and that's happened only twice in 10 games. Seems like the dice rolling this year has been mostly dictated by circumstance versus choice. Things seemed to settle down once Steward and Hardrick started establishing themselves to Norman's left. They managed 2 games of that then down goes Hardrick to be replaced by Fabien. Two games with that left side combo and down goes Steward. Now Valli's dinged, not that I saw him as more than a stop-gap, but nonetheless it's meant yet another change of personnel.

Not sure if I'm concerned about Hardrick at LT. They originally planned on him playing LT which was his position at Nebraska. When Cave proved ineffective and had to be replaced they optedfor Steward mostly because Hardrick was so new to the club. It was expected Steward's stay at LT would be just long enough to buy Hardrick some time then they'd flip. Steward played so well that they decided to switch Hardrick to LG. Indications I get is they like Hardrick a lot. Sounds like he has a little bit of that Murphy edge to his game. If there is a thing that concerns me about the frequent changes it's Fabien's rotation in and out of the lineup. Has he been that ineffective or is he still not 100% from his knee surgery, be that physically or mentally? We can wring out hands in angst but I think somehow the Lions need to stop the injury carousel and get into a situation where these kids can put together several games playing as a unit.

As a side note it was interesting to look at the numbers at the bottom of LU's article and see how often the Lions were at or near the bottom of the league in sacks surrendered yet at or near the top of the league in offence. It seems so contradictory.
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Shi Zi Mi wrote:
Hambone wrote:It seems Dorazio is now the official fan whipping boy meaning whatever goes wrong with the offence will be his fault in they eyes of many. He'll probably take heat when the defence and STs have an off game too. Since he's become a lightning rod for discontent I've become curious about one thing. If he's so incompetent and incapable why is the respect level for him so high in the football community? Why do so many OL he's coached absolutely love the guy and think he's one of, if not the best OL coach they've ever worked under?
We have a bingo!!!.....and why is it that when the oline played well this year, no one commended Dorazio on how well prepared they were? The game is fairly simple in that talent, skill, preparedness, game plan, etc play a major part in winning.....but an even BIGGER part comes down to emotion, intensity and desire to impose your will on the opposition....and THAT is what's NOT HAPPENING.

From Valli's brain farts to not recognizing defensive twists/stunts to not being willing to make the required effort......these are not things that ANY Oline coach can force his players to do.

Defenses aren't doing anything new.....it's all been done before.....it comes down to studying game film and having the presence of mind to recognize/trust what you see.....and then execute to the absolute best of your abilities.....and that's not happening.

IMHO, I would like to see the Lions settle on Steward, Fabien, Norman, Player and Olafioye as the starting oline......and let them play together (barring injury) come hell or high water......they will be a lot better in the month of October if this is allowed to happen.
:whs: and :whs:
There's a tendency to blame coaches when things go wrong. They're not stupid. They see a lot more than we see as fans. Winning isn't about outsmarting the other team. It's about the 3 E's: effort, execution and experience. The Lions' effort and execution has been lacking in their losses. We knew they went into the season lacking experience at O-line, receiver and DB. The DBs seem to have come together as a unit in their short time together. Experience for receivers and QBs and for the O-line can only come from playing together for an extended period of time. I hope the Lions pick a 5-man starting OL soon and stick to it. The young players all have the physical tools to succeed over time.
Good points. Hard to argue about.

One team that seems to be plug and play up front is Calgary in their OLine. Not sure why have had success in including IIRC a rookie Centre whereas BC always has a million excuses as to how they can't get a Centre, can't run block as it is hard to teach running plays, etc.
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TheLionKing
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Bombers defensive linemen must be licking their chops at the Lions' revamped offensive line. Expect them to bring the blitz, stunts and twists to confuse the offensive line even more.
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notahomer
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B.C.FAN wrote:TSN analyst Paul LaPolice has written a highly technical overview of pass protection, focusing on the centre's reads and calls at the line of scrimmage and how the linemen, running backs and QB must be on the same page.

LAPOLICE: THE TERMS WITHIN THE GAME OF FOOTBALL....
Yes that was an interesting piece to read by LaPo. Wonder if he's going to turn into another Jon Gruden. Gets into broadcasting and then realizes he can do a lot of the stuff he enjoys doing without putting in the hours coaching. I doubt it though. There have to be some reasons and when the right situation comes along, he'll give coaching a go again......
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

Very good and diplomatic piece by Angus Reid regarding the Oline that I guess will be part of tomorrows BLITZ section. Hope his advice gets followed as its obvious he wants to see both the Oline and the Lions succeed......
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