Lions' O Line for 2014 - Montreal shows how to build an OL

[WestCoastJoe]

From last year's O Line thread ...

2003 Carl Gourgues

2005 Pierre Tremblay, Karl Ortmanns

2006 Dean Valli, Jon Hameister-Ries

2007 Andrew Jones, Kyle Kirkwood

2008 Justin Sorensen, Hubert Buydens

2009 Matt Morencie

2010 Danny Watkins, Adam Baboulas

2011 Yannick Sage

2012 Kirby Fabien, Matt Norman

Add to that ...

2013 Hunter Steward, Matt Albright
......................

Drafting. Guys like Gourgues, Ortmans, Tremblay, and Buydens were deemed to be too small. Then why the heck draft them?

Jones? Morencie? Baboulas? Sage?

Many wasted picks over the years? Sure.

Lack of development in the NI O Line roster over the years? Yes.

And as noted, is it a coincidence that since Kelly Bates took over draft responsibility, we have made some outstanding picks for the O Line: Norman, Fabien, probably Steward.

Regarding making Hunter Steward puke ...

I cannot imagine that it was intentional to make Hunter Steward chuck his biscuits, as they used to say. But how wise was it, on his signing day, after eating, prior to the press conference, to run him so ragged that he pukes, and leans over in pain?

My bigger concern re the O Line is the uncertainty often shown over the years. Assignments not clear. Body language uncertain. We hear talk of changing philosophy in mid-season. Not good. We hear talk of scheme overhaul in the off-season. Go technical. Go physical. Power blocking. Zone blocking. I get a strong sense of overload, and far too much stuff in the heads of the athletes. Footwork. Hand work. Assignments. In the lab: Try this. Try that. We all tend to know how O Line is considered such a demanding position mentally. Agreed. Well then, in that case, it seems wise to me to keep things as simple as is possible. We seemed to do a better job of that with Matt Norman and Kirby Fabien, guys that have played successfully in their rookie years, unusual for our Non Import O Line.

Things are promising now.

This episode of making freshly signed Hunter Steward puke is one for the records though. It adds to the folklore of Dan Dorazio. Right up there with the "He's got good girth; he's got a good body" quote regarding Dean Valli. LOL

Regarding Danny Watkins ... He had a very difficult time in Philadelphia. He went to the armpit of the world for O Linemen, the Dolphins, home of harassment and abuse. He is unsure he wants to play football any more. If he ever signs with the Lions ... I don't see how puking on the field could ever be considered a good way to make a new guy feel at home and comfortable. (Or could this incident be enough to close the door for Danny Watkins?) There is enough of the discomfort of football in the dog days of summer. No need for leaving lunch on the grass.

[David]

Before we pile on the Lions for being abusive to new recruits, I'd prefer to hear their version of the story. Indeed, Hunter Steward's too.

Perhaps they worked him out to determine whether he'd be a better fit at Tackle or Guard?

Perhaps they gave him the choice of doing their testing on the same day as the press conference or the next day and he chose to do it all same day?

Perhaps it's something as simple as eating something that just didn't agree with him.....rather than some abusive old-school training ritual for new recruits?


All we have to go on is one reporter''s account. Hunter came across as a happy, confident, and well-adjusted young man in his interview, not bitter and disillusioned from mistreatment. I'd prefer to hear from others before deeming the Lions a party to some obscure hazing ritual, which is almost what they're being accused of here.



DH

[Hambone]

I cannot imagine that it was intentional to make Hunter Steward chuck his biscuits, as they used to say. But how wise was it, on his signing day, after eating, prior to the press conference, to run him so ragged that he pukes, and leans over in pain?

Was that a case of Steward being pushed so hard he tossed his cookies or did Steward push himself so hard to impress that he chundered? Lots of different circumstances can happen. No sense jumping to the conclusion that whomever of the Lions staff was on hand were literally whipping him like a galley slave on the oars.

[WestCoastJoe]

Before we pile on the Lions for being abusive to new recruits, I'd prefer to hear their version of the story. Indeed, Hunter Steward's too.
...
All we have to go on is one reporter''s account. Hunter came across as a happy, confident, and well-adjusted young man in his interview, not bitter and disillusioned from mistreatment. I'd prefer to hear from others before deeming the Lions a party to some obscure hazing ritual, which is almost what they're being accused of here.

I cannot imagine that it was intentional to make Hunter Steward chuck his biscuits, as they used to say. But how wise was it, on his signing day, after eating, prior to the press conference, to run him so ragged that he pukes, and leans over in pain?

Was that a case of Steward being pushed so hard he tossed his cookies or did Steward push himself so hard to impress that he chundered? Lots of different circumstances can happen. No sense jumping to the conclusion that whomever of the Lions staff was on hand were literally whipping him like a galley slave on the oars.

"deeming the Lions a party to some obscure hazing ritual"?

"jumping to the conclusion that whomever of the Lions staff was on hand were literally whipping him like a galley slave on the oars"?
.............

I asked if it was wise to work him out like that. I certainly did not say it was deliberately abusive or intentional to make him puke, and it wasn't.

"But how wise was it?" ... I asked.

[David]

My comments weren't aimed at you directly WCJ, and I'm sure that I speak for Hambone as well. It just seems to be the general perception on this board and elsewhere that the Leos used some unvsavory tactics to somehow test his mettle and I don't think that's the case at all. At least, I am suggesting there are two (sometimes three) sides to every story.


DH

[Hambone]

My comments weren't aimed at you directly WCJ, and I'm sure that I speak for Hambone as well. It just seems to be the general perception on this board and elsewhere that the Leos used some unvsavory tactics to somehow test his mettle and I don't think that's the case at all. At least, I am suggesting there are two (sometimes three) sides to every story.


DH

I suspect whatever workouts they ran him through are no different than the sorts of things they or any other teams would do. Similar stuff to the combine drills? Maybe it was no more than having a case of the Roxy flu.

[WestCoastJoe]

My comments weren't aimed at you directly WCJ, and I'm sure that I speak for Hambone as well. It just seems to be the general perception on this board and elsewhere that the Leos used some unvsavory tactics to somehow test his mettle and I don't think that's the case at all. At least, I am suggesting there are two (sometimes three) sides to every story.


DH

I suspect whatever workouts they ran him through are no different than the sorts of things they or any other teams would do. Similar stuff to the combine drills? Maybe it was no more than having a case of the Roxy flu.

No problem. That is fine, Guys. Language is not an exact science.

Obviously Dan Dorazio was keen to see Hunter Steward in action. Vigorous workout just after signing. After eating. Perhaps without being prepared for it. All adds up to lunch on the carpet. Still seems a bit of an unwise move to me.

For example, we are all hopeful that Danny Watkins will have his interest rekindled in playing football. This little episode will not exactly help in giving him a warm and fuzzy feeling, after his two bad experiences in the NFL, first with the Eagles, then the Dolphins. If somehow Watkins signs, I would expect Wally or Mike to say, jokingly perhaps, to Dan D, "Umm, Dan, no lunch on the carpet today, OK?"

[OV - 54:40]

Getting Watkins in the fold sure would be nice - probably an instant starter at either guard or OT; might be a long-shot but who knows his feelings on coming home to play for the Lions ? (no reports there?).

IF not - might Wally look to another O-Lineman with another early draft pick (edit - correction - #s 5, 12, 14 i think it is) - one good fit candidate could be local product - SFU's Matt Goosen - 3 time conference all-star, and has played both OT & C i believe; would they take him at #5 if available or wait and hope he is still on the board in the 2nd round? IF - he panned out as a quick learner/ pro talent at C - that would allow moving Norman to his natural position at guard, along with Fabien hopefully, and then Steward could be allowed to understudy at OT for a season (or take a starting job if he shows lots at TC); with vets Valli & Kabongo around for depth. Getting both Watkins and adding Goosen, to go along with Steward = Lions have about the best O-Line in the league IMO. Locking up Watkins might = no need to go O-Line in the draft ?

[WestCoastJoe]

Getting Watkins in the fold sure would be nice - probably an instant starter at either guard or OT; might be a long-shot but who knows his feelings on coming home to play for the Lions ? (no reports there?).

IF not - might Wally look to another O-Lineman with another early draft pick (#s 4 or 13) - one good fit candidate could be local product - SFU's Matt Goosen - 3 time conference all-star, and has played both OT & C i believe; would they take him at #4 if available or wait and hope he is still on the board at #13? IF - he panned out as a quick learner/ pro talent at C - that would allow moving Norman to his natural position at guard, along with Fabien hopefully, and then Steward could be allowed to understudy at OT for a season (or take a starting job if he shows lots at TC); with vets Valli & Kabongo around for depth. Getting both Watkins and adding Goosen, to go along with Steward = Lions have about the best O-Line in the league IMO. Locking up Watkins might = no need to go O-Line in the draft ?

Good points, OV.

O Line is still possible in round one. Goosen might be available. Prospects have improved considerably.

[Shi Zi Mi]

With Edmonton and Winnipeg in as bad a shape as the Lions as far as oline goes, it's pretty well guaranteed they will take 2 of the top 3 olineman with the 2nd and 3rd overall picks......that leaves Ottawa(1st) and Montreal(4th) picking ahead of BC with only 1 top notch olineman available.

I'm anticipating that those top 3 olineman will go 1, 2, 3.......so barring trading up, I don't see the Lions getting a shot at either Goosen, Foucault or Lavertu.

[OV - 54:40]

With Edmonton and Winnipeg in as bad a shape as the Lions as far as oline goes, it's pretty well guaranteed they will take 2 of the top 3 olineman with the 2nd and 3rd overall picks......that leaves Ottawa(1st) and Montreal(4th) picking ahead of BC with only 1 top notch olineman available.

I'm anticipating that those top 3 olineman will go 1, 2, 3.......so barring trading up, I don't see the Lions getting a shot at either Goosen, Foucault or Lavertu.

What Ottawa will do with the 1st pick? - i dunno, but Duvernay-Tardif (maybe the best O-lineman in this draft and maybe by quite a bit), is likely to garner NFL interest, so a big risk; and Ottawa already has Hage & Krauscnik-Groh as Centers with CFL experience, so not sure they would take Lavertu; the Bombers should be quite interested in Lavertu with their big need at C/O-line. Foucault is IMO probably quite over-rated and I'll bet he is not close to a top 5 pick - Goosen OTOH will be rated higher by most teams IMO. And there are all sorts of other top prospects at other positions this draft i believe. I'll bet you anything that no way Lavertu, Goosen, and Foucault are the top 3 picks this draft ; and the Als have lots of NI talent/depth at O-Line (they might take a flyer on Duvernay-Tardif if he's there). Wally will have a shot at Goosen with his first pick I'll bet.

[WestCoastJoe]

What Ottawa will do with the 1st pick? - i dunno, but Duvernay-Tardif (maybe the best O-lineman in this draft and maybe by quite a bit), is likely to garner NFL interest, so a big risk; and Ottawa already has Hage & Krauscnik-Groh as Centers with CFL experience, so not sure they would take Lavertu; the Bombers should be quite interested in Lavertu with their big need at C/O-line. Foucault is IMO probably quite over-rated and I'll bet he is not close to a top 5 pick - Goosen OTOH will be rated higher by most teams IMO. And there are all sorts of other top prospects at other positions this draft i believe. I'll bet you anything that no way Lavertu, Goosen, and Foucault are the top 3 picks this draft ; and the Als have lots of NI talent/depth at O-Line (they might take a flyer on Duvernay-Tardif if he's there). Wally will have a shot at Goosen with his first pick I'll bet.

I don't want to see Wally trade up. I think we can do well enough anyway.

D Line. O Line. DB. RB. LB. We do have needs.

[Shi Zi Mi]

Wally will have a shot at Goosen with his first pick I'll bet.

Man I hope you're right.....cuz IMHO, in the 2014 draft, Goosen is the THE guy that checks off all the boxes when it comes to what the Lions need on the oline.......local kid that is a natural Centre but can play Guard.....opens up options with how we deploy Matt Norman.

[TheLionKing]

Before we pile on the Lions for being abusive to new recruits, I'd prefer to hear their version of the story. Indeed, Hunter Steward's too.

Perhaps they worked him out to determine whether he'd be a better fit at Tackle or Guard?

Perhaps they gave him the choice of doing their testing on the same day as the press conference or the next day and he chose to do it all same day?

Perhaps it's something as simple as eating something that just didn't agree with him.....rather than some abusive old-school training ritual for new recruits?


All we have to go on is one reporter''s account. Hunter came across as a happy, confident, and well-adjusted young man in his interview, not bitter and disillusioned from mistreatment. I'd prefer to hear from others before deeming the Lions a party to some obscure hazing ritual, which is almost what they're being accused of here.



DH

X2. The only thing we know to be a fact is that he puked. Period. People are so quick to blame the Lions. There may be a variety of reasons why he threw up as David has alluded to.

[David]

Am I the only one here who thinks the Leos should go "D-line" instead of "O-line" with their first pick? This is a more pressing need IMO.

If Concordia defensive tackle Quinn Smith is still on the board at #5 (doubtful after his impressive combine), I would take him. I'm not suggesting we have an abundance of depth on the O-line, but with the chances of landing Ted Laurent still a bit of a long shot and rumours that Jabar Westerman wants to play closer to his Ontario home next year, we're woefully thin with non-import options on the defensive line. Jermaine Reid was a surprisingly good acquisition last year, but let's be clear here. We really need more non-import options on the defensive line. It may also allow us to explore import options at safety.


DH