Lions' O Line for 2014 - Montreal shows how to build an OL

[WestCoastJoe]

From my iPad, limited internet access or work ...

Jarien Moreland on the practice roster. 6'5" 321

Ryan Cave is on the PR as well, not on the active roster. Has he been deemed "not good enough" by Dan Dorazio?

[WestCoastJoe]

Kirby Fabien's return could be boost to Lions' O-line

By Mike Beamish, Vancouver Sun July 8, 2014 5:59 PM

METRO VANCOUVER - As if blocking the men directly in front of them wasn’t enough, offensive linemen are being asked to deal with ever more sophisticated defences in the Canadian Football League, where slants and stunts and other trickery require a blocker to have an almost sixth sense where the pressure is coming from.

When the B.C. Lions lined up two rookie linemen at the start of last Friday’s 24-9 defeat against the Montreal Alouettes, a light went on for defensive coordinator Noel Thorpe. The Als started attacking gaps on the left side of the Lions’ O-line, speeding through holes between centre Matt Norman, left guard T-Dre Player and left tackle Ryan Cave.

Player, a rookie, was starting his second CFL game. Cave, another newbie, had only two full practices with the Lions. Defensive end John Bowman spent the first half looping around the line of scrimmage, then shooting the gap untouched. He had five quarterback sacks in the first half (one was called back because of a penalty).

“Everybody took their turn screwing up,” explained Norman, after the Lions returned to the practice field Tuesday. “They found a stunt that worked very well against us. In the second half, we figured out some answers. But, overall, it wasn’t very good.”

The Lions, who were without four starters on offence, will get three of them back for Saturday’s game in Regina against the Roughriders, coming off a 48-15 pummeling by the Toronto Argonauts.

Guard Kirby Fabien (knee) and receivers Emmanuel Arceneaux (hand) and Marco Iannuzzi (hamstring) are ready to play and quarterback Kevin Glenn welcomes the added dash of savvy they’re expected to provide.

“Experience is a big thing,” Glenn said. “Experience is something that is valued. That doesn’t mean a first-year guy can’t have success. But, well, he’s a first-year guy.”

Fabien started only five games as a rookie right guard for the Lions last season before his knee was shredded by a crackback block. Up to that point, his growth had been exponential. When he went down, Norman, the player closest to Fabien as both friend and teammate, said it “was like losing a brother.”

Now 49 weeks removed from his catastrophic injury, which required a full knee reconstruction, Fabien is back in as a starter. He is replacing Player at left guard. The Lions are trusting that a lineman with five career games as a starter has an advantage over one with just two.

“It’s good to have a familiar face to my left there,” Norman said. “Kirby’s back in. And I’m pretty excited about it.”

A first-round pick in the 2012 draft from the University of Calgary, Fabien admitted that the psychological hurdle after a significant injury was more difficult to overcome than the physical one.

“I haven’t seen the videotape of the injury,” he said. “I refuse to watch it. I’ll never watch it. It wasn’t a good point in my life.There’s no point in re-living it. It’s been almost year now, and I’ve moved on.”

He was dressed as a seventh lineman in the Lions’ first two games and got on the field for just two plays, both from the goal-line area.

“Training camp, the two-a-days, were hard on me," Fabien admitted. "My knee swelled up a lot. It put me right back down. But that up-and-down phase is over. I feel a lot better. I’m ready to go out there.”

He knows that an O-line, working in unison, putting trust in each other, can turn Friday’s fright night from becoming a recurring nightmare.

[korey&dante4ever]

Pretty much goes without saying, but a long term injury to Norman or Fabien moving forward, and the season is gone. Must stay healthy

[cromartie]

It seems we keep chucking away reasonable candidates as we look for some kind of perfection.

How many of these reasonable candidates land other CFL jobs elsewhere for any sustainable period of time, out of curiosity?

[WestCoastJoe]

It seems we keep chucking away reasonable candidates as we look for some kind of perfection.

How many of these reasonable candidates land other CFL jobs elsewhere for any sustainable period of time, out of curiosity?

If you are suggesting they lack quality, one asks why bring them in? Is our recruiting process that inadequate? Or is there something else here?

They have been viewed on film. They have been invited to tryout camps. They have been brought to Training Camp. Many have NFL experience, and have had successful college careers. We go all across the USA to recruit them. And, once here, many are deemed to be not good enough. And we even find ourselves without one in good health as we started preparation for the Alouettes. Something seems to be amiss. At least to me. And some others here.

It seems to me that quite a few of these candidates, especially those with NFL experience, just might be good enough. They need to adapt to the CFL of course.

It seems like a disconnect between the recruiting of international tackles, and the evaluation and selection of those tackles once here.

We have two of them on the suspended list. Others got injured. Others were sent home. Others chose to go home or not even report.

Other CFL teams do not feel the reward of picking through our castoff international O Linemen. But we brought them in. Either our recruiting process is poor, or we are looking for something that is not out there, available to us. Or one can say: It is OK. We are just going through a bad time with our O Line. And that is on the international side of things.

From 2006 of course we had Murphy and Jimenez. They ultimately spent time with other CFL teams.

[B.C.FAN]

From my iPad, limited internet access or work ...

Jarien Moreland on the practice roster. 6'5" 321

Ryan Cave is on the PR as well, not on the active roster. Has he been deemed "not good enough" by Dan Dorazio?

Hunter Steward and Tim Brown are shown on the active roster but both are on the injured list until Friday. Emmanuel Arceneaux is shown on the injured list but he's on the active roster. Cave is expected to start on Saturday so he stays on the active roster. Marco Iannuzzi is also expected to come off the injured list Friday. The Lions have to declare their 46-man roster on Friday. Until then, anything posted on bclions.com is unofficial.

[TheLionKing]

Easy to criticize the Lions for their recruiting etc. but if the player decides to go home or choose not to report for whatever reason the fault is not with the Lions.

[David]

Easy to criticize the Lions for their recruiting etc. but if the player decides to go home or choose not to report for whatever reason the fault is not with the Lions.

Maybe so TheLionKing, but the question we have to ask ourselves is why does this continually happen? And why is it invariably O-linemen?? Three guys just left camp in Kamloops, one was re-signed by the Arizona Cardinals, but what about the other two? It's happened to us in other years too. They come. They see. They hear. They flee.

And why do we see injuries continue to mount at camp with this position group, year after year? I would like to put it down to bad luck, but it's definitely a trend. There has to be a reason for it.


DH

[WestCoastJoe]

"When the Lions went to training camp in Kamloops, there were 16 O Linemen competing for jobs, according to Mike Benevides. The coach said, the day before Friday's game, he had never seen such quality, size and depth before. And it all disappeared, through releases, injuries and unexpected departures." - Mike Beamish

Just bad luck. Nothing to do with the coaching. It must be the same with every team. Just about impossible to fill those tackle positions.

[WestCoastJoe]

From my iPad, limited internet access or work ...

Jarien Moreland on the practice roster. 6'5" 321

Ryan Cave is on the PR as well, not on the active roster. Has he been deemed "not good enough" by Dan Dorazio?

Hunter Steward and Tim Brown are shown on the active roster but both are on the injured list until Friday. Emmanuel Arceneaux is shown on the injured list but he's on the active roster. Cave is expected to start on Saturday so he stays on the active roster. Marco Iannuzzi is also expected to come off the injured list Friday. The Lions have to declare their 46-man roster on Friday. Until then, anything posted on bclions.com is unofficial.

http://www.bclions.com/video/index/id/98523

In the practice video, Fabien is at left guard. Cave at left tackle. Player is there. Steward is shown getting some reps. Moreland also seen.

And of course, Norman, Valli and Olafioye.

[WestCoastJoe]

Ryan Cave, no stopgap, is gone.

Moreland and Hardrick. Welcome. Thanks for coming in. Good luck.

* Is there a dearth of sufficiently high level talent out there in the hinterlands, the highlands or the lowlands? The right guy just cannot be found?

* Bad recruiting, as we crossed the United States during our tryout camps?

* Recruiting and ultimate evaluation not on the same page?

* Bad luck?

* Fussy shopping?

The search goes on. Airlift Stage 2. 13 O Line candidates was a number Benny used in describing the great depth and high quality of this year's crop of candidates. The number would seem to be up to 16 now.

When Ramsey is healed, will it be decided that he too is "not good enough"?

Archibald gave us some stability, but his play certainly backslid in his time here, from previous outstanding lineman while with Calgary.

Wouldn't it be wondrous if Steward, or Fabien, or T Dre could play that LT spot? They all played tackle in college. It seems we are kind of set on an international for that spot.

It may be chaotic, but it is interesting. And we have some fine young national talent.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

Ullrich: Lions’ left-tackle revolving door spinning out of control

By Lowell Ullrich, The Province July 15, 2014

The casual conversation about the ideal import candidate to play left tackle for the B.C. Lions went on for several minutes before practice in the office of general manager Wally Buono Tuesday.

It ended, temporarily at least, when Buono went to his rooftop perch to watch coach Mike Benevides line up non-import Hunter Steward to begin practice with the regulars.

Welcome to life with a CFL team, where no week is seemingly complete without some kind of switch at the most important position on the offensive line.

The turnstile spun again Tuesday with the release of Ryan Cave, who hitched a ride to the airport with another import, receiver Korey Williams, who was also cut when results didn’t match expectations. Cave was replaced at practice by Jermarcus Hardrick. Hardrick divided reps with Jarien Moreland, who was the import arrival du jour last week, and Steward.

Hardrick is the 11th import to contest the position since the start of training camp June 1, making it easy to suggest with the benefit of hindsight the club should have stuck with Ben Archibald, the six-year all-star veteran who retired when the Lions wouldn’t guarantee his spot before the season.

But they didn’t, and so the Lions must find a successor who not only is qualified but wants to stay. Buono knows that eventually could be the 22-year-old Steward, who played the position at Liberty University, but also knows making a starter out of a rookie 2013 draft choice reduces the team’s non-import depth.

Benevides may have contract security in a new extension, but has to win against the Montreal Alouettes Saturday at B.C. Place Stadium (4 p.m., TSN, Team 1040). He also knows he is open to second-guessing with either decision.

“I got an eye on the big picture like everyone else and Wally has a great eye for what we want, and we’re getting closer,” Benevides said after explaining the exit of Cave, whose public stock plummeted after he was lambasted by TSN announcers during his two weeks of CFL fame.

“It’s always about a young man’s game. If (Archibald had returned), the complaint department would have said it’s the same old, same old.”

In the middle of it all are the players who must act more as a cohesive unit than any other position group. They too were once untested newcomers who realize the only way to find an elusive fifth starter for the offensive line is to help where possible.

“I catch myself trying to coach up guys and I try to give them straight answers,” import right tackle Jovan Olafioye said. “But sometimes people come in and I wonder if I didn’t answer that last week.”

Dean Valli, whose status as senior statesman on the offensive line was jeopardized briefly when he became ill prior to the Lions’ road game with Saskatchewan, said adapting to change is paramount.

“A lady once asked me how we sleep at nights when our contracts aren’t guaranteed and I said it’s part of the business. … Guys have to ignore change because if they don’t, it’ll drive you insane,” said Valli, now in his ninth season.


“(Offensive line coach) Dan Dorazio said something last week: ‘At O-line, you play the hand you’re dealt’. You can make excuses after the game or you help that (new) guy help the unit be the best they can be, because you don’t have any choice.

“But it does make you appreciate Ben Archibald that much more.”

Short of Rob Murphy showing up to practice and giving the Lions a reminder of the stability they once had at tackle, Benevides said he will take the week to tinker.

It’s a prudent approach, considering the Lions had no alternative three weeks ago when Andre Ramsey was injured and served up Cave on two days notice to the delight of the Alouettes.

No matter who starts Saturday, however, bad things could happen again because of the inexperience of all three of the current candidates, and could rekindle the debate about the Lions’ short- and long-term direction at the position.

“It’s about winning today,” Benevides said. “It may take a couple of them but we’re not going to stay pat. It’s about the here and now.”

It’s also about finding a starter here and now, or eventually the Lions would be better off installing a revolving door at left tackle.

[WestCoastJoe]

The casual conversation about the ideal import candidate to play left tackle for the B.C. Lions went on for several minutes before practice in the office of general manager Wally Buono Tuesday.

It ended, temporarily at least, when Buono went to his rooftop perch to watch coach Mike Benevides line up non-import Hunter Steward to begin practice with the regulars.

One wonders, if indeed, it is the pursuit of an "ideal" left tackle that has us in this position, the position being desperartion mode. Are we too fussy in what we want? Is it that our system needs an incredibly skilled left tackle? Other CFL teams have stability at that position. They can also fit new guys in without chaos.

Welcome to life with a CFL team, where no week is seemingly complete without some kind of switch at the most important position on the offensive line.

Hardrick is the 11th import to contest the position since the start of training camp June 1, making it easy to suggest with the benefit of hindsight the club should have stuck with Ben Archibald, the six-year all-star veteran who retired when the Lions wouldn’t guarantee his spot before the season.

11th import to try out for the left tackle spot this year.

Just the nature of the business? No one fired for imcompetence? Is this the way it is on every CFL team? Just a bad luck year?

But they didn’t, and so the Lions must find a successor who not only is qualified but wants to stay.

"wants to stay" ... One gets the impression that a number of these guys do not want to stay. Some do not even want to show up to Camp, it seems.

“I got an eye on the big picture like everyone else and Wally has a great eye for what we want, and we’re getting closer,” Benevides said after explaining the exit of Cave, whose public stock plummeted after he was lambasted by TSN announcers during his two weeks of CFL fame.

“It’s always about a young man’s game. If (Archibald had returned), the complaint department would have said it’s the same old, same old.”

Dunno about "same old, same old" regarding Archibald. He had learned his trade long before he got here. And he seemed to backslide during his time here.

“(Offensive line coach) Dan Dorazio said something last week: ‘At O-line, you play the hand you’re dealt’. You can make excuses after the game or you help that (new) guy help the unit be the best they can be, because you don’t have any choice.

The guys are doing their jobs without complaint.

“But it does make you appreciate Ben Archibald that much more.”

Archibald was no longer at All Star level, but, in a Grey Cup hosting year, it seems evident now we had no adequate plan to replace him. We are groping for answers heading into Game 4 of the regular season.

It’s also about finding a starter here and now, or eventually the Lions would be better off installing a revolving door at left tackle.

"revolving door" ... 11th international trying out for left tackle this year ... Says as much about the recruiting/evaluating going back to tryout camps, the judgments made during training camp, the system, the coaching and the management of this group, as it does about those sent packing. IMO ...

[Odie]

"revolving door" ... 11th international trying out for left tackle this year ... Says as much about the recruiting/evaluating going back to tryout camps, the judgments made during training camp, the system, the coaching and the management of this group, as it does about those sent packing. IMO ...[/quote]


I would agree in some respects, but lets face one small reality that everyone seems to be forgetting. Andre Ramsey won the starting job and according to pre-camp reports, there was a suggestion that, barring injury, he might have unseated Archibald last year. It seems that the lions did, in fact, have the replacement lined up in Ramsey and that he did pan-out in the respect that he beat out all comers in camp for the job. The fact that he got hurt is really just bad luck. It was the same with Fabian last year and would be the same for any team in the league. Even Saskatchewan's vaunted o-line would take a huge hit if they were to lose a starting left tackle.

What should really be discussing here is the lack of depth, not the inability to select a tackle. of the 11 candidates, we should have kept one around in the event Ramsey went down. Now we are scrambling, but that picture is also clearing with the return of Steward. Had steward kept healthy through camp and Ramsey not gone down with injury, we would likely be chatting about the depth of the line and maybe about Steward pushing Ramsey out so that we could play an additional american at safety.... suddenly, we seem to have some depth... just not a clear starter. Hopefully one of these new guys or Steward can step in and that Ramsey can return to play at a high level. After that, these guys just need to gel a little...

[WestCoastJoe]

Ramsey had a history of injury/vulnerability with us. And he had never played a down for us. Not sure how we could count on him going into this year. And we had no backup behind him to start this year. ??? And one wonders, although his ability is praised by the staff, if Ramsey too will be sent packing, in that endless search for some kind of out of the box perfection.

And one senses that Archibald is missed, even as imperfect as he was.

Well, there have been a monumental number of decisions and evaluations that have not worked out in regard to our left tackle position. Just a run of bad luck, some suggest.

So the focus has been on evaluating prospective left tackles, and failure to find one deemed to be good enough. Perhaps more focus should be on evaluating the coaching staff and the personnel staff in this chaotic situation at left tackle.

"revolving door" Exactly.

"turnstile" ... Yes.

"left-tackle revolving door spinning out of control" ... Thus far.

Just IMO. Others can, and will see it differently.