TiCats to decide whether to open stadium early

[JohnHenry]

This latest survey is grasping a straws. TO is a hockey, baseball and maybe basketball town. It is not a football town. If Toronto was a football town then both the Argos and the Bills in Toronto series would both produce better, money making numbers.

According to an Angus Reid survey last November, pro football ranked second to the NHL in fan interest in Toronto, followed closely by baseball. The NBA and MLS ranked well behind in popularity. Ontario (especially Toronto) and the Atlantic provinces were the only parts of the country where the NFL was more popular than the CFL, but pro football still was more popular in Toronto than in Canada overall.

The poll also showed strong support in B.C. for the CFL and much less interest than the rest of the country in the NFL, but the NHL was also more popular in B.C. than anywhere else in the country.
Angus Reid poll

I believe the 30% to 21% NFL/CFL split in Toronto is unreliable. There is more than a 10% variability in the results with such a small polling sample. So these numbers tell us Angus Reid could take another Toronto poll today with the CFL getting 31% support and the NFL 20% or anywhere in between, 19 times out of 20.

We also don't know how many Toronto fans follow the NFL "very closely" or "fairly closely"? Perhaps the majority of Toronto fans follow the NFL "fairly closely" because they have a bet on the game or are in an office pool? In the U.S. it was reported that over 50% of Americans follow the NFL mainly due to gambling. I'd believe most Canadians follow the CFL "very closely" because they enjoy watching the games, not due to gambling.

MLSE CEO Leiweke said last week they hired an American stadium contractor to advise on upgrading BMO to 30,000 seats and on the construction of a NFL-sized stadium in Downsview. So we likely know the source of this most recent NFL survey, designed to gauge the interest of Toronto corporations in buy $50,000 seat licenses in a proposed NFL stadium. Getting corporations to buy seat licenses is the only way MLSE/Tannenbaum can finance building a NFL stadium in Toronto. They already know the lukewarm interest Torontonians have in attending NFL games live, so if the corporate elite won't buy the necessary seat licenses, the NFL is dead in Toronto.

Another factor is a NFL team cannot be "relocated" to Toronto as long as the Bills exist. Thanks to the Bills in Toronto series, southern Ontario is now designated as part of the Buffalo Bills market. Buying the Bills and getting approval from the NFL to move them to Toronto is likely the only way they can get a NFL team in Ontario. Not a slam dunk, even with Bon Jovi as the front man.


MLSE sudden interest in renovating the seven-year old BMO is likely a strategic move to head-off Braley's attempt to build a new Argos stadium in suburban Toronto. MLSE just doesn't want the competition. Who can say if MLSE/Tannenbaum's "love" for the Argos will be tossed away soon after they convince the team to move to BMO? The Argos could be stuck in the corner and left to wither away as MLSE's 6th-ranking franchise, while they pursue their stated dream of bringing a NFL team to Toronto.

[WestCoastJoe]

According to an Angus Reid survey last November, pro football ranked second to the NHL in fan interest in Toronto, followed closely by baseball. The NBA and MLS ranked well behind in popularity. Ontario (especially Toronto) and the Atlantic provinces were the only parts of the country where the NFL was more popular than the CFL, but pro football still was more popular in Toronto than in Canada overall.

The poll also showed strong support in B.C. for the CFL and much less interest than the rest of the country in the NFL, but the NHL was also more popular in B.C. than anywhere else in the country.

Angus Reid poll

"The poll also showed strong support in B.C. for the CFL and much less interest than the rest of the country in the NFL ... "

Yeayyy ...

God bless the little, old CFL. A Mom and Pop operation. A boutique league. OK, enough humility. The CFL provides terrific games. Great talent. Great quarterbacking. Great coaching. Great rules. Giant field. Wide open game.

Toronto can go ... (inhale foul smelling expulsions of gas) LOL NFL envy. Pathetic.

I don't expect the MLSE/Tanenbaum team to give up on their NFL fantasies. And, for me personally, I think the CFL could survive even if those wannabe NFL types in Toronto got their wish. The CFL is a niche sport, irregardless of other leagues. The CFL has hard core fans, not all worshipping at the altar of the NFL. The CFL game stands on its own merits.

I do not want to see the NFL in Toronto. One does not know if that would be the death knell of the CFL. But the NFL itself does not want to kill off the CFL.

There is even a chance, methinks, that the Canadian government could step in, and prevent the expansion of the NFL into Canada.

For me personally, it is enough that we have a dayum good NFL franchise right next door, in our sister city, Seattle.

[DanoT]

So is this Angus Reid the same pollster that called for an overwhelming victory by the NDP in the last BC election?

It is real easy to call yourself a fan or a supporter of a team or a league when asked by a company conducting a poll, but the only real poll that counts is the one you make with your wallet when you buy tickets.

[Toppy Vann]

This latest survey is grasping a straws. TO is a hockey, baseball and maybe basketball town. It is not a football town. If Toronto was a football town then both the Argos and the Bills in Toronto series would both produce better, money making numbers.

According to an Angus Reid survey last November, pro football ranked second to the NHL in fan interest in Toronto, followed closely by baseball. The NBA and MLS ranked well behind in popularity. Ontario (especially Toronto) and the Atlantic provinces were the only parts of the country where the NFL was more popular than the CFL, but pro football still was more popular in Toronto than in Canada overall.

The poll also showed strong support in B.C. for the CFL and much less interest than the rest of the country in the NFL, but the NHL was also more popular in B.C. than anywhere else in the country.
Angus Reid poll

What I don't get is how they had Pro football and then both the CFL and NFL as a category. Not sure if that muddies the water or not. The constant threat of the NFL in Toronto is not helping the Argos at all.


Yes, Angus Reid got the BC Provincial election wrong in 2013 and so did pretty much everyone else. Overall Angus Reid does a pretty job on calling things right but phone surveys are always fraught with difficulty. The link shows how others missed it as well and by how much.

Remember the LIBS insiders in the upper echelons knew their numbers were solid as it was based on what voters told them face to face at the doorsteps.
Writers post election said they put this down to what else would a top official say - they didn't believe it.

Here's why they say all missed the call.

http://www.angusreidglobal.com/wp-conte ... Record.pdf

British Columbia - May 2013

The 2013 general election in British Columbia saw the BC Liberals, led by Christy Clark, climb back from the
depths of public disfavor to win a majority.

Most pollsters - including Angus Reid Public Opinion - predicted victory for the BC New Democratic Party
and leader Adrian Dix. A thorough post-election review of ARPO’s practices and methodology indicates our
polling missed primarily because of low voter turnout among younger voters. Weighting the responses of voters
under the age of 35 to their share of the voting electorate, as opposed to weighting them to their share of
the overall BC population would have shown a much narrower three-point lead for the NDP in the final stretch
of the campaign. This would have supported the dynamic of the Liberals picking up critical momentum

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=443195

[WestCoastJoe]

Cohon to meet Mayor of Halifax about future CFL plans 20140206

Nova Scotia may be one step closer to eventually becoming the home of a tenth CFL team after this weekend.

Appearing on TSN Drive with Dave Naylor on TSN Radio 1050 Toronto on Thursday, CFL commissioner Mark Cohon said that he and CFL President Mike Copeland will be flying to Halifax on Sunday to meet with mayor Mike Savage and business leaders about the possibility of bringing a team to the city.

"(Mayor Savage) is very progressive, he is very open about the concept of building a stadium, building for the region and I think if the CFL can be catalyst for change in Halifax, I'm very excited by that," said Cohon.

Cohon suggested the idea of awarding the city a conditional franchise to inspire the area to build the necessary facilities, as the league did with the city of Ottawa and the awarding of the Redblacks.

"I'd love to see it happen, I think the mayor would love to see it happen, now we need some political and community leaders in Halifax and in the region stepping up to help us think through it."

The CFL has previously played three regular season games in Atlantic Canada. In a series called "Touchdown Atlantic", all three were played at Moncton Stadium in New Brunswick. The games took place in 2010, 2011 and most recently in September of the 2013 season, when the Hamilton Tiger-Cats defeated the Montreal Alouettes 28-26.

[WestCoastJoe]

It might take a while yet, but I think it is inevitable that the CFL has a franchise in the Maritimes.

Halifax? Moncton? Either one is OK with me.

Slow but sure. Do it right.

10 teams would be very nice. IMO there are more than enough talented players of Non Import status to support this. And of course the pool of American players is truly humongous. Talent is IMO the least of the challenges facing the CFL and its expansion plans.

Stadium? Deep pocketed, committed ownership? These are larger challenges IMO.

Halifax Schooners?
...........

Quebec City?

Another team in Ontario?

B.C.?
............

Get to 10 safe and sound first.

[notahomer]

It might take a while yet, but I think it is inevitable that the CFL has a franchise in the Maritimes.

............

Get to 10 safe and sound first.

I want a balanced league (5 teams in each division) but make them stable......

[Shi Zi Mi]

The article seems to imply that the awarding of a conditional franchise to Ottawa is what brought the Hunt consortium together in Ottawa.....total BS......the consortium formed and came looking for a franchise

If Cohon thinks meeting with the mayor and awarding a conditional franchise to Halifax is going to inspire big-pocketted individuals to fall in love with the CFL and step forward.......well, I'll have whatever he's drinking.

As much as "coast to coast" is a beautiful dream.....it's just not practical and they really need to focus their attention on Quebec City if the CFL is EVER to have a 10th franchise.

[Jim Mullin]

Actually, the mayor is trying to determine if they are going to get a stadium done 'once and for all' before his term ends this year.

Each member of council there seems to have it in their heads that there is a purrfect size, a purrfect location and a purrfect funding formula for a facility... which could likely result in the gridlock on this issue that has plagued this idea for the last FIFTY YEARS.

The trigger for this possibly moving forward is the closing of Huskies Stadium. It was condemned and is being turned into a grass berm with bleachers until the university figures out what the next step is.

If you've been following this closely, they've been talking 10k, 15k and 20k. Given the history of football in that region, something between 10-15k would be fine. If a CFL team rolls in there it should be up to them expand the stadium on their own dime.

[Jim Mullin]

Game Over for SMU Stadium: http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1180 ... mu-stadium

Mayor: Decision on Stadium Coming This Year: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/mayor-of-hal ... map=%5B%5D

[South Pender]

As much as "coast to coast" is a beautiful dream.....it's just not practical and they really need to focus their attention on Quebec City if the CFL is EVER to have a 10th franchise.

Are you saying that because Quebec City is bigger than Halifax, or because football is big there with Laval prominent in the CIS? Actually, Quebec City isn't that much larger than Halifax, and I think there's strong interest in college football , at least, in the Maritimes. Or is it because QC already has a suitable stadium (or close to it) for a CFL team, whereas Halifax will have to start from scratch?

With CFL football already entrenched in the Province of Quebec, with the Alouettes, but nothing east of there, it would provide a nice symmetry to the league to have the game played coast to coast.

[JohnHenry]

The article seems to imply that the awarding of a conditional franchise to Ottawa is what brought the Hunt consortium together in Ottawa.....total BS......the consortium formed and came looking for a franchise

If Cohon thinks meeting with the mayor and awarding a conditional franchise to Halifax is going to inspire big-pocketted individuals to fall in love with the CFL and step forward.......well, I'll have whatever he's drinking.

As much as "coast to coast" is a beautiful dream.....it's just not practical and they really need to focus their attention on Quebec City if the CFL is EVER to have a 10th franchise.

I'd assume the CFL wouldn't award a conditional franchise to Halifax unless they had ownership in place. If someone is willing to bankroll the team, like in Ottawa, then a franchise could be awarded...on the condition that a stadium was built.

The government financed B.C. Place, Commonwealth Stadium, BMO, Hamilton and Ottawa's new stadium. In fact every stadium CFL teams have ever played in were built by governments. So I don't see why Halifax should be any different? All 3 levels of gov't could finance the much-needed stadium there, perhaps in conjunction with the University.

The attraction for the CFL in the Atlantic region is increased TV ratings. That's one area in Canada which has little CFL tradition and has weak TV ratings. The CFL ratings in Atlantic Canada doubled in 2010, in conjunction with the 1st regular season game played in Moncton. That was a major factor in the record CFL ratings that season (averaging over 800,000).

But to put the Atlantic market in perspective, there are more people living in B.C. outside the Greater Vancouver/Victoria areas than in the 4 Eastern provinces combined.

I think the CFL could probably do much better in Quebec City than Halifax. Having another team La Belle province would setup a natural rivalry with the Als and open up the entire province to CFL football. The stumbling block is the Rouge et Or, who have powerful friends that don't want the CFL competition in Quebec. Their recent stadium renovation was designed so it could never be expanded for the CFL. A brand-new stadium would need to be constructed in Quebec, the same as Halifax. Then Quebec would need ownership in place, the same as Halifax.

One option could be to use federal infrastructure transfers to finance new stadiums in Quebec and Halifax (similar to the plan for Quebec's NHL stadium.)

While Quebec and Halifax make geographic sense for the CFL, it's southern Ontario cities like London or Guelph which make far superior economic sense for CFL expansion (and probably in Saskatoon too.)

[Toppy Vann]

The article seems to imply that the awarding of a conditional franchise to Ottawa is what brought the Hunt consortium together in Ottawa.....total BS......the consortium formed and came looking for a franchise

If Cohon thinks meeting with the mayor and awarding a conditional franchise to Halifax is going to inspire big-pocketted individuals to fall in love with the CFL and step forward.......well, I'll have whatever he's drinking.

As much as "coast to coast" is a beautiful dream.....it's just not practical and they really need to focus their attention on Quebec City if the CFL is EVER to have a 10th franchise.

It'd be great to go the Maritimes but for it would be a challenge for western teams and the Maritime team venturing across Canada unless they reinstate the old days of road trips where the team stays in the east for more than one game. That is a LONG way from Vancouver. It can be done.

To me the idea of Quebec City seems so much more logical as this to me makes sense. NHL did fine there before the clown in the chair Bettman) decided to move teams to the Sun Belt where that has hardly worked out. I for the life of me cannot see how the NHL would not want Seattle or even Portland - historic venues for the old Western Hockey League I grew up on where older or marginal NHLers played albeit not to large crowds but where they have junior hockey and a fan base. Phoenix yes was in that league but not a huge solid market IIRC. Now I can't for life of me understand why they don't move mountains to get into Quebec City unless it is due to the Als but how does that square with teams in Toronto, Hamilton and now back in Ottawa? Three is Ontario.

[MexicoLionFan]

It would be great, but as Joe said, TAKE IT SLOW and do it right...2 divisions and 5 teams in each would be ideal.