Did the CFL go to far to boost Argos?

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

User avatar
joe kapp22
Legend
Posts: 2754
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:26 pm

Buonosjanet69 wrote:my dream is to see the Lions go unbeaten all season and face the Argos in the Grey Cup in a tight game. Imagine the tv ratngs for that?

Now that I've snapped out of that thinking :wink: the trade is a shot in the arm for the East. And for those who say Cavillo is showing his age, trust me he can still get it done. The CFL needs to be strong in the East (esp Toronto) before it can comptemplate expansion, this is a step in the right direction.
I've found this sentiment among some of us fans of the CFL, so please do not think I'm singling you out BuonosJanet, that is not my intention.

Let's be honest here, the Argos stole Ricky Ray, there are some theories that the league strong armed the Eskimos into trading him for very little in return, which may or may not have happened.

But if that is what happened, did the league go to far to bolster the Argos sagging franchise?

A franchise that by any measuring stick has been poorly run for yrs, to the point that one Adminstrator there really believed scantily clad women would be the saving grace of the franchise...uhmm..

To my mind, the league was sort of forced into doing some drastic things, like the 1 million dollar "grant" to bolster football in the Ontario region, but aren't such short cuts counter productive in the long term? Isn't a part of the fun of being a fan is watching your team improve and get better and then enjoy it when they reach the mtn top?

Thoughts?
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

joe kapp22 wrote:Let's be honest here, the Argos stole Ricky Ray, there are some theories that the league strong armed the Eskimos into trading him for very little in return, which may or may not have happened.

But if that is what happened, did the league go to far to bolster the Argos sagging franchise?
Well if that's what really happened, and that's a pretty big if, btw, then perhaps you can consider it a quid pro quo of sorts... the league decided this was the time to phone in for some payback on that Troy Davis/Jason Maas trade of 2005.

Allegedly.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
Luke
All Star
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Yorkton

That's a serious shot at the credibility of the CFL, which as gone a long way to building a credible name over the last 10-15 years. I generally don't like this kind of what-if. Do you really see Mark Cohon pushing the Eskimos into trading a franchise QB? I realize the Argonauts are weak, but this is a little too conspiratorial for me. I hope that in that scenario, Eric Tillman and maybe even Kavis Reed would've resigned, or someone from the Eskimos or another franchise would've cried foul.

The Eskimos allowing that to happen without a fight seems unconscionable to me. I realize Hugh Campbell is gone, but there must be someone in that organization who would have the grape fruits to stand up to that.

We just saw a wacky story about the league-operated New Orleans Hornets trying to trade Chris Paul to the Lakers. As soon as that became public the Lakers backed away, and now Paul is headed to the Clippers instead. I would hope a situation where the CFL home office tried to influence a trade in one direction would get leaked to the press, or brought to the public by one of the parties involved.

Or maybe I'm just too naive.
User avatar
KnowItAll
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7458
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:32 pm
Location: Delta

I dont for one second even consider that the league might be involved.

However, for arguement sake, if they were, it will probably backfire as I dont believe that Ray fits in with present chemestry of the argos, no matter how much talent and experience he brings to the table

I predict that a Ray led argos team does not make it to the cup.
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
User avatar
Luke
All Star
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Yorkton

JohnHenry wrote:CFL teams are all independently owned enterprises and unless you have some evidence other than "theories" about a conspiracy to "strong arm" the Esks of their starting QB...this thread is ridiculous and should be moved to the joke section. :clown:
Agreed. Although, sadly this sort of conspiratorial stuff will only get worse if the Argonauts go from worst to first next season, and end up playing in the Grey Cup.
User avatar
notahomer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6258
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:09 pm
Location: Vancouver

The Grey Cup is ALWAYS a big game but the next one will be a little bit bigger, IMO. At the same time a 'racket' to set up the home team is not in anyones interests, IMO. Yes, I think the Argos won the deal but I guess we'll see.... Some leagues (NBA?) do have policies in place, perhaps due to this particular season, to reject certain deals. I wonder how such a system, could or should work in the CFL? Its the one good thing (in a selfish kind of way) about the NFL option window. Other teams losing players I respect but am glad to see getting their shot in the NFL...... For example John Chick and Andy Fantuz...
User avatar
Big Time
Champion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:45 pm

This article on TSN more or less sums it up for me. No way the league was involved: http://tsn.ca/blogs/dave_naylor/?id=382713

I think Braley is just trying to follow the BC model he used when he brought Dave Dickenson in for the 2003 season. Start with an established QB and build outward. The problems in Argoland are much greater than QB however if they can get stability there, they can start to focus on other areas. I think the East is such a toss up that they can rebuild their team fairly quickly.

They've got a long way to go before that team starts filling the building however.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12579
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

I don't believe for a second that the league had anything to do with this trade.

I also don't believe for a second Tillman's claims that Jyles will make the Eskimo offence better.
User avatar
joe kapp22
Legend
Posts: 2754
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:26 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:I don't believe for a second that the league had anything to do with this trade.

I also don't believe for a second Tillman's claims that Jyles will make the Eskimo offence better.

Well, the trade was lopsided anyway it is viewed, what bothers me is not that the league may have strong armed the Eskimos, it is taking such a shortcut as acquiring Ricky Ray essentially removes half of the fun of being a fan, unless one is the most casual of fans and is not interested in seeing the team being assembled, struggle, improve, and turn the corner.

It's a sort of microwave approach that to me cheats the Argos's fans of enjoying the process, recall how even here when we were 0-5, how pitch forks and torches were being readied to storm the front office and oust Buono and Company?

Then as the season slowly turned around and Lulay showed what he could do, and the Defence did as well, and the pieces being added like Bruce and Smith, we went from suffering to a truly memorable season?

Argos fans have been cheated of that process, and I'm wondering if that will build fans, or simply draw in fly by night casual fans? The conspiracy stuff is a small point as to me, it does not matter Ray is a Argos player now, end of story for me at least.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:I don't believe for a second that the league had anything to do with this trade.

I also don't believe for a second Tillman's claims that Jyles will make the Eskimo offence better.
I cannot believe the league is stupid enough to undermine its entire credibility in such a fashion as to legislate a trade. Just don't believe it. And I don't think Braley would even consider operating that way if he could get away with it.

Tillman may get lucky, and find a new Hall of Fame class quarterback. Hmmmm ... What are the odds of that? Pretty dayum slim, methinks. I just put it to a brain fart by Tillman, trying to be too smart, too outside the box.

Did any one here ever consider a drastic move, think about it for at least a couple of days, have uncomfortable sleep, decide against it, and realize later: Oh my God, I am so glad I held off on that decision. It would have been a disaster. (Change houses for the wrong reasons. Change jobs for the wrong reasons. Change countries for the wrong reasons. Et cetera ... ) Well I gather Reed felt that way for a coulple of days, but then went with his GM's program (or that new President's program). IMO this trade is on Tillman, and so far, unless he gets really, really lucky, it is bad on him.

Good on the Argos however. Good on the league. And good on the rest of the Western Division. Too bad for the Schmos. LOL
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Conspiracy theorists unite ! I don't think for a nanosecond that the league strong armed the Eskimos in giving away Ricky Ray. Even with Ray, the Argos are still a long ways from being a contender.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12579
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

TheLionKing wrote:Conspiracy theorists unite ! I don't think for a nanosecond that the league strong armed the Eskimos in giving away Ricky Ray. Even with Ray, the Argos are still a long ways from being a contender.
With Ray's salary to pay, the Argos are less likely to be able to sign their own free-agent linemen, Rob Murphy, Dominic Picard and Taylor Robertson. The Argos have 13 free agents, second only to Winnipeg. The full impact of this trade is yet to be felt in Argoland.
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9364
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

joe kapp22 wrote:Well, the trade was lopsided anyway it is viewed....
I am going to wait 2-3 years before I judge the trade. Playing Devil's Advocate here, how many more years does RR have to be considered a top tier quarterback? What if he becomes noodle-armed in a year or two? What if the Eskimo offense really flourishes with an offense designed for Jyles's strengths and mobility (I don't think we can judge him on last year's performance because he missed training camp and collectively, Argo receivers rank dead last in the league).

Or to go a step further, what if the Esks draft the next Fantuz or Cornish with the #2 overall pick?

Granted, the stars have to align for Tillman for this to happen. But it's way too early to unequivocally state that the Argos won a lopsided trade and, more to the point, something as preposterous as the league somehow being involved.


DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
cromartie
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5004
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:31 pm
Location: Cleveland, usually

Let me see if I understand this correctly. With television ratings near an all time high, six of eight teams likely breaking even or showing a profit and three teams getting new stadiums, the league has to cut the throat of one of it's marquee west teams in order to boost up t Toronto in order to prop up a Grey Cup for....what reason exactly? Because teams can't do well if Toronto doesn't do well?

This isn't the 1990s. Stop pretending the league is still a bush league enterprise that has to do things like this to survive. We aren't at the point where it is indestructible, but we are approaching the point where it has earned it's place with a pretty solid break even niche in the sporting marketplace.

Never attribute to conspiracy that which can instead be attributed to stupidity, ego or neglect.
Post Reply