RedBlacks 27 - Lions 16 -- Post Game Stats and Comments

[Lions4ever]

Bright spots: Lulay made it through intact (showed flashes but I don't want to hear 'rust' next week when missing receivers. He's been throwing to the same guys for the past 6 weeks + 2 games)

Agreed. If wet behind the ears types like Rakeem Cato and Trevor Harris can throw dimes all over the field, Travis has got to be much much better. And soon.

[Lions4ever]

Was at the game tonight at Landsdown Park, should have stayed home...could have save myself a lot of money, headache and traffic hassles.

Seen a lot of games the Lions stunk out the park in the last three years, but this one took the cake.

Some one should be fired for keeping Ryan Philips in the defensive secondary, should have been gone 2012.

Offense predictable and boring, defense porous and torn to sheds

Total game plan sucked, confused and disorganize, both sides of the ball

Made the mistake of wearing my Lions jersey to the park...

Wished I had a paper bag over my head, to conceal my identity!

ARRGHHH!!!

All the same,you are to be commended for getting out there and repping the team. Big thumbs up to you!

[Sir Purrcival]

The DLine has been a growing problem for some time (years). The Oline has been a problem for almost a decade. The failure to address it more substantively or even seemingly acknowledge the problems for the most part are more frustrating than the actual problems themselves. It is one thing if you just can't find good people to fill those roles but it is another when you watch other teams build in those area's, improve in those areas while you seemingly stand by and do nothing. Not drafting for those positions, not trading to improve in those positions, not going through free agency to improve those positions. I guess you could say that they have tried to draft for the Oline somewhat but the DLine situation has been getting worse and worse for a long time. Our Dline's used to be feared and emulated, now they are more a nuisance. We cut established veterans without even letting them compete for the positions that they have played. We establish an atmosphere that makes players feel unappreciated in the later stages of their careers and as such inhibit those FA's who might be a good fit for our need. Who wants to play for a team if they feel the moment their performance begins to drop off will be cut.
Players aren't like a piece of fruit where you just eat the good stuff and then throw away the rind. You have to be fair enough to let them win or lose their jobs in the spirit of competition. The proactive "cut em now" approach may have some benefits but in the long term, the reputation across the league that it has created is hurting us. At least when the choice is made on the field and not in the office, players understand that if someone plays the position better than them, that they are done. Not being able to get a chance eg. Tim Brown, Stephan Logan, Eric Taylor etc. while seeing that the team doesn't have obvious improvements at the position is just wrong.

[sj-roc]

Like a lot of fans I too was disappointed at the Lions performance on Friday or lack of performance but I'm not about to be jumping off the Lions Gate Bridge any time soon.

I'd try the Pattullo. Faster moving water pull one down quicker.

No waterways necessary — right now you'd need only stay outdoors for a few hours in defiance of the current air quality advisory.

[Blitz]

It is one thing if you just can't find good people to fill those roles but it is another when you watch other teams build in those area's, improve in those areas while you seemingly stand by and do nothing. Not drafting for those positions, not trading to improve in those positions, not going through free agency to improve those positions. I guess you could say that they have tried to draft for the Oline somewhat but the DLine situation has been getting worse and worse for a long time. Our Dline's used to be feared and emulated... Sir Percival

We are at least trying to address the problems of our offensive line this season with the hiring of Malone. Part of the problem in the past has been a lack of development. For example, other than a brief stint of trying Valli at center, we had no succession plan for the retirement of Angus Reid. We ended up switching Norman to center at training camp. Another problem as you point out has been drafting. We've also experienced a lot of injuries in the past with our National lineman - Hamiester Rees, Kirby Fabian, Hunter Steward, and now Matt Norman are more recent examples. Getting free agent offensive lineman to sign here is always going to be a challenge with Buono as the G.M. We've also released offensive lineman or not signed them again who have gone on to be successful with other teams.

As for this year's offensive line, I do think Foster is an upgrade on Norman at center. Norman never played center in college, had the position thrust upon him suddenly when Reid got hurt in training camp and we had no successor developed at the position, and Norman struggled last season. Draheim is playing left tackle because Steward got hurt and Draheim can also play center if Foster gets hurt. Player is an undersized guard and it will be interesting to see if he is kept as our starting right guard or whether Norman will become the starter at right guard when he returns. Valli has been demoted to back up offensive lineman status and his play in the past dictated that decision.

I thought our offensive line did a decent job of pass protection against Ottawa and certainly it was much better than we' ve seen for a long time. Unfortunately the same couldn't be said about our run blocking. I think its still too early to tell about our offensive line. It takes time for an offensive line to gel and we had three new starters playing against Ottawa. When Steward returns and with the coaching of Malone, I think our line will be ok.

I'm much more worried about our defensive line. The aging Khareem Smith is now our wide side rush end. Westerman is an experiment at the other defensive end spot. We started Roh at tackle where he is not only undersized but it was his first start (pro or college at the position and he spend most of training camp at his natural defensive end spot. Bazzie had more sacks as a rookie than any B.C. Lion in history other than Cameron Wake and Grey but he is undersized. Menard was used inside. We still don't know what Ajufo will be able to do.

Our Leos want to use a 6 man defensive line rotation with 4 Internationals and 2 Nationals. Keeping them fresh is one thing. Having them be an effective pass rush and run stopping unit is another. Washington wants to rush four defensive lineman, with a rare blitz, and a lot of vanilla zone. Its asking a lot of our linebackers and defensive backs if we don't get pressure on the quarterback. The field is too wide, the motion and waggles advantage the offence, and the new pass defence rules advantage it even more. If a defense can't shut down the run and can't get pressure on the quarterback, its tough to win.

[Sir Purrcival]

Yes to everything you pretty much say. What really remains to understand however is how the administration has seemingly been unaware of the growing vulnerabilities. I'm sure in truth they haven't been "unaware" but where are the new prospects to fill those holes? How can other teams manage to strengthen their teams in various positions while we either stagnate or get worse? Esp. on the DLine. Why the need to get experimental with players in unfamiliar positions? I think you nail it on the head with the development comment. We don't seem to be developing talent the way we used to and it is showing. I cut them some slack at the QB position because I think they were just victims of timing and bad luck. I hope that Tedford can begin to reverse the trend and I think it will take time but the way they started out this season cutting the likes of Brown and Logan they way they did, doesn't really inspire confidence.

[David]

I echo Blitz's post above. This is bang-on.

The perception of poor offensive line play Sir P was largely predicated on a sluggish running attack (which I will hang mostly on the O-line, some on the coaches, and some on Harris). For example, can someone explain the logic of being 3rd and 1 and doing a deep handoff to Harris from shotgun? Of course that play got blown up like The Bridge On The River Kwai. It was doomed from the start! In terms of pass blocking though, this group was largely on point. For the most part, Travis had ample time to make his progressions and find receivers. There were no blown assignments and free shots on the quarterback which was a good sign for a group playing its first game together.

The D line was a bit more worrisome to me as we seldom pressured Burris with a 4-man rush and Walker was able to eat up big chunks of yardage on the ground (at least early. The group settled down in the 2nd half I thought and stuffed him a number of times).



DH

[Sir Purrcival]

I didn't actually say they played poorly, just that it had been a problem for far too long. I would totally agree that pass protection wasn't bad this last game but as you point out, that is only one part of the role. My issues more stem from how long we have taken to get to this point. It feels like we have been sliding down a muddy slope for ages, sometimes faster than others and that we haven't done what other teams have done to right their ships. I understand that everything has it's ups and downs but it shouldn't take "years" to find a good replacement at safety. Or years to develop/find a rush end or years to rectify some of the problems we have had on Oline. Nor should be we having to move players out of their positions because we can't find the players we want at the needed position. Injuries can play a part and so can timing but we don't want to be the new rendition of Eskimo's or Bombers who went through a decade of floundering through poor management and coaching. Some might argue that we have been doing a lot of that despite 2 grey cups. I don't think you will find many takers who want to go through the experience that those fans have. It cost Ottawa a team outright (twice) and we have already engaged in some conversations about how short the attention span of the BC consumer seems to be. It certainly seems that when you have the right management in place, that traditionally bad teams (Hamilton for ex) can quickly get things moving in the right direction. At the end of the day, I don't have a magic bullet, this is just spitballin for conversation sake. I think there are some reasonable questions in there and hopefully it spurs some more input and feedback.

[TheLionKing]

Like a lot of fans I too was disappointed at the Lions performance on Friday or lack of performance but I'm not about to be jumping off the Lions Gate Bridge any time soon.

I'd try the Pattullo. Faster moving water pull one down quicker.

It'll take you forever to get there with all the traffic gridlock.

[dupsdell1]

It was a disappointing season opening loss for our B.C. Lions against the RedBlacks, who were only playing their second game of their second season as a franchise. The game showed how low our B.C. Lions have fallen from those lofty times from 2004-2007, when we were a model franchise of success.

Our Lions have now lost one out of the three games so far we have played against a new franchise in the Redblacks and we barely won in Ottawa last season with a 7=5 victory in Lulay's last start prior to this game. Ottawa has attracted free agents, made good trades, and drafted and selected wisely. They've put together a decent offensive line, an excellent receiving core, and an aggessive defence in this early second year of their operation. If only our Leos could be functioning at the same level.

In the big picture, a lack of judgment by our Leos brass has gotten us to this place, where we were chosen to finish last or fourth in the West by most prognostictors this season. The hirings of Mike Benevedes and Khari Jones, the release of Rich Stubler, the continued retention and expansion of the role of Chuck McMann (now running backs coach as well as special teams) and the release of Kelly Bates, who did such a great job of both the draft and the running backs have resulted in a price being paid.

The treatment of veteran players, who have not only given their heart and soul to the team and the community, have also not gone unnoticed across the CFL nor thas the way we have handled contracts. Getting a quality free agent to come to B.C. is a tougher challenge than getting milk from a bull.

We attempted to address a team in demise and inner turmoil last season by bringing in a very experienced Head Coach in Tedford, an offensive coordinator in Cortez who has both experience and success, and a new offensive line coach in Malone who has a proven record of successfully coaching offensive lineman.

But instead of a quick turnaround, its going to be a work in progress. Tedford inherited a team with a converted guard playing center and with no backup depth at the position, a quarterback who had a background of serious shoulder problems and who had hardly played in a year and a half, an average receiving corps, and a lack of quality depth at the backup quarterback position.

He also inherited a defense whose best pass rusher is a a 35 year old defensive end, a huge hole to fill in the interior of the defensive line, and the challenge of attemtping to convert a defensive tackle into a rush end. In this game, Roh, a college player who has never played inside, lined up for his first pro game ever in the unfamiliar position of defensive tackle, a spot he didn't even practice at for most of training camp. This is not champion building stuff.

Obviously, there are serious improvments that need to be made and I anticipate that when NFL cuts happen, we'll see more change this season than in previous seasons.

Here are some post game thoughts.

OFFENCE

Travis Lulay showed he could make all the throws he needs to make as a starting quarterback in this game. However, the greatest strength of Lulay has never been sitting in the pocket reading and making throws. His success has always been as a double threat quarterback who could throw on the run, make plays, and run the football upfield. He only ran once in this game and more than his shoulder, Lulay not being a threat to take off with the football is limiting.

A positive in this game is that we did a better job of protecting the quarterback than we have for the past two seasons. No quarterback can be successful without adequate pass protection. Kevin Glenn, for example, was 33/40 for over 477 yards passing for the Riders. He obvously had better protection in that game than he ever had with our Leos last season.

The negative was that, with three Internationals, we really struggled to open holes for the running game and it hurt our offence. It will take time for this offensive line to gel and I believe the day we have Hunter Steward back in the lineup, will be a huge step up. (hard to beleive we initially pegged Steward as a backup guard going into training camp)

Manny Arsenault looked so much better back outside at shortside wide side reciever. Austin Coliie showed that he is going to be a great addition.

However, for an innovative coach as Tedford and an offensive coordiantor with the experience of Cortez, I would have thought we would have seen a much more imaginative and dynamic offence out of our new scheme. This was a game that we really needed to show that we could be an exciting offensive team again to attract a fan base that is dwindling, Didn't happen.

DEFENSE

Our defense was hurt again by the same things that have plagued us under Mark Washington. Those three things are 1) an ineffective pass rush 2) the inability to close down the oppostiion teams running game and 3) vanilla zone defense and a passive approach to playing defense, dispite some very agressive style linebackers and defensive backs.

A 40 year old Burris can still pick a defense apart if he is given time and he gets a lot of the same look. We gave Burris too much time to often to make throws and we played a lot of vanilla zone.

Mark Washington was a Wally fave. He did a decent job taking over Stubler's defense to begin last season but it was a defense in decline as the 2014 season progressed and it certainly didn't look much improved against Ottawa.

Ryan Phillips, who has always been a favorite of mine and is an excellent cover guy was injured. I never want to see a player hurt but perhaps with Parks at wideside half and Tillman at wideside corner, we'll be a better defense. We'll miss Phillips coverage skills and experience but he has never been a great tackler.

The positives in this game on defense were the play of Khareem Smith and we finally saw the kind of safety play that we haven't seen since Barrin Miles played. Rwabukamba was unlucky not to have a number of intercpetions but he tracked and closed on the football that was a joy to see, after such a long absence from seeing any safety in a B.C. uniform to that.

There is still a lot of work to be done on this defense and Washington is not giving me the feeling that we are better off with him than Stubler..that's for sure.

SPECIAL TEAMS

We chose Leone over Fera because of his punting but Leone did not have a great first game. He shanked a punt, his directional punting was lacking, setting up potential dangerous returns, and he lacked the ability to pin a team deep when the opportunity was there.

The only real postive in this game was that Murray-Lawrence showed the speed and ability to take a return all the way.
Hopefully that burst will also make our coaching staff consider using him as a rotational tailback and give him some plays that can best utilize that speed into our offence.

WRAP

Not the way we wanted or needed to start this season. Poor tackling, bad penalties, veteran mental mistakes, and being outplayed were not inspiring takeaways from a team that really needs to get its fan base back.

Tedford has his work cut out in front of him. His voice reflected that in his post-game comments. Now that Teddord has seen our team in real game action, with his starters against another team's starters, he can better assess what he has and what he doesn't and what needs to be done to get this team turned around.

Excellent observations is is going to be progress all season long , but are the fans going to be patient are they going to accept this is a team in rebuild mode ? might take half way through the year to start putting a winning streak together it or even take a couple of years for this team to get back to were they were in the 2004-07 .

[pennw]

After watching the game a second time , I agree with Blitz on the Oline , the pass protection was actually pretty good . Lulay was not running for his life , like was the case for our QB's for the past few seasons . Run blocking was another story though , but maybe something to be expected at this point considering that it is almost a whole new unit with only Olyfioye at the spot he was last season . Given time they may become a decent Oline and get the run blocking right .
As for Dline they were not impressive , but reviewing the game a second time Burris did get ball away very fast most plays , which may have something to do with his receiving unit being pretty good . Wonder If we could trade for Ernest Jackson ? I think he would look pretty good in a Lions uniform .
Biggest negative IMO was the very weak tackling . Ottawa should have been stopped many times over when they converted for a first down due to shoddy tackling . I agree that it is our Defence that is the biggest concern . Last year we could say that maybe it was MW only doing as he was told playing it passively , this year it 's on him if the trend continues .

[Toppy Vann]

What is a bit concerning is the talk of the HC isn't aligning with the play of his team.

Penalties - a huge concern and often a marker for a team that isn't fully together or disciplined.

OFF schemes- talk of H back and up tempo offense with no huddle. Not sure of the number of times Black was noting the time clock but it seemed a lot more than a typical Lion team. I personally dislike the show boat coaching with hand signals that does little to just get the play in. This entire theory that the play goes to the QB then the sidelines (HC son) signals the play to the REC defies what they are saying this does:

> uptempo
> focus on DEF alignment.

In fact all of the REC/RBs are looking BACK mostly to the sidelines to get the call it seems and not looking at the personnel changes or the DEF.

Other teams just call the freaking play and get on with it versus so many have to learn hand signals. Fans if they followed baseball know they pick off the signals in games and have to change the signs but you can't do this easily in a football game.

Uptempo was not a word I'd used to describe an inability to run the football or vary the schemes like OTT did when they needed to. I liked Jason Maas' play calls late in the game as they helped Burris and kept the Lions off balance espec. as the pass rush was not there.

I was never one to think that this is a team ready to compete out of the gate for no. 1 as a new HC takes time to get his rhythm right and learn the up to the moment nuances of opponents. Quality of coaching in the CFL is very high these days as is the quality of opposition defences.

I feel bad for the Lions as this will affect the crowds in this hot weather and vacation times as it's hard enough to sell summer tickets even when you win in Vancouver in July-Aug.

The first thing a team must do is get balance in their offense. You can't just pass. It's like no matter who the coaches are these days in BC, the run game since the days of Kruck calling the plays is like the plaque. You can't blame Harris for the lack of production.

[Coast Mountain Lion]

Like a lot of fans I too was disappointed at the Lions performance on Friday or lack of performance but I'm not about to be jumping off the Lions Gate Bridge any time soon.

I'd try the Pattullo. Faster moving water pull one down quicker.

I've driven over pretty well every bridge in the lower mainland, but not recently over the Oak Street bridge until today. Today I noticed it has signs saying "Pedestrians no Loitering" or something like that. I know the Lions Gate has emergency/suicide hotline phones on it, and I think some of the others do too, but these signs were something I hadn't seen before (I regularly cross the Knight and Arthur Laing, and going to my previous job went over the Queensborough every day, and don't recall seeing signs like this). Is the Oak used more by jumpers? Or are pedestrians that much of a distraction there?

[DanoT]

I'm with you Toppy V on the signalling plays to the RB and RECs as it is very cumbersome and a very bad idea for all the reasons that you have listed, but it probably is the only way to get the play call in a very noisy stadium without huddling up.

I would rather see a quick huddle and quick snap to try and catch the D not yet ready and lined up for the snap of the ball, or at least vary that with their current lengthy pre snap maneuvering to try and see how the D is lining up pre snap.

[MexicoLionFan]

Get used to it...the problems that the Lions display, OLine, DLine and some coaching can't be solved in a week. The Lions possess a vet QB who hasn't played much in 2 years, so he has to find his game, and its tough without a running game, and its tough to have a running game if you are losing the battle at the LOS. As for Defence, weak DLine was NOT addressed seriously in the offseason and Mark Washington did nothing to help them. As I emphatically stated at the end of last year, Mark Washington cheats with his LBs to achieve success in the pass defence game, teams have figured out what he's doing and where these Lions are vulnerable. I say ZERO change in Washington who promised Lion's fans that he had learned his lesson...in game one he demonstrated that nothing was learned.

The good news is that Telford knows what he is doing but man does he have a lot to change before things get better...Malone will get that OLine going, but Lulay has to hit those open targets! And Tedford is going to have to get involved with both the Sts and DEF where the coaching still doesn't look up to par...changes need to be made and Tedford is the one who needs to enforce them...its his team!