With some of the recent roster moves, depth charts and emergence of younger players I can't help but wonder if we haven't already seen the last games for some Lion veterans.
Khalif Mitchell - missed a few games due to ratio. I haven't noticed him on the sidelines with other inactive Lions and the defence continues to play well without him.
Dante Marsh - seems to be some mixed vibes coming out of the Lions camp whether he's still out due to injury or if he's in the doghouse.
Courtenay Taylor - with the emergence of Jackson and Tuinei looking like a keeper can Taylor get back in this year if his foot heals? If not will he be back next year? Injuries have kept him out a few times since arriving.
Tim Brown - loyal soldier who instantly revitalized the return game when they activated him. Then Iannuzzi has a great game returning kicks Antolin is playing very well in the backfield. Logan sounds like he might be ready for a return too. Barring injury can Brown get back on the field this year?
Stefan Logan - will he get back in action even if healthy? If he doesn't will he be back next year?
Have some Leos played their last games?
Moderator: Team Captains
I've wondered the same, but there is the difficulty of judging performance when playing a couple bad teams in a row. At least, I think there is. Myself? I've made up my mind.
Khalif Mitchell: Had virtually no stats well into the season. We were told that wasn't indicative of how good his play was. I think it's safe to say it was. He isn't missed in any manner, shape or form, including his on-field cheerleading. Wally should stop being a hard-you-know-what and go about trying to sign Westerman. From there, get another Canadian DL-DE in the off season so you can have the three guys to maintain the one NI starting spot and back up the rest of the line.
Dante Marsh: This is really quite odd. Is this also a 'Wally thing'? Lee and Williams did do pretty well replacing Marsh and Yell, but I would think Marsh will play again this year. Not next, though.
Courtenay Taylor: I would have cut Ernest Jackson a long time ago. I always felt he got far too many chances and failed. I'm now wondering if he was simply not in the right position. He looked very good in these last couple games. So, he continues the way he's been going, and it would be foolish to move him out of that position. He looks dangerous once he gets the ball. I don't think we have a lot of receivers you could say that about.
Tuinei didn't have quite the game last time out that he did the game before, but I'd keep him around. Throw it near him and throw it high.
Tim Brown: He was always going to be replaced. He would have got beat up on the returns over time and some new flashy type would be brought in to take his spot. That seems to be how it is for guys like him. Good guy, but a Brown or Antolin decision would be Antolin. I especially liked the way Antolin blocked on the returns. Wondering if Iannuzzi can stand up to the pounding the returner takes?
Stefan Logan: BC somewhat overrated its talent this year. Logan and Mitchell were two who did not come through for me. Logan even made a return error in one game where he brought it out to the four or five yard line, if I'm not mistaken. He should play again this year, but there are a lot of RB's out there and maybe a bigger, younger one could come in next year to augment Harris (if he returns to form) and Antolin.
Shawn Gore: Adding this one. He will, of course, play the rest of the year, and maybe return next year. However, he's dropped enough footballs for me. I would try someone else at his position. Maybe Poblah to see if he really has anything. Maybe another import.
Ricky Schmitt: May be another overrated player. He's been okay, but not sure he's what they expected. No Canadians who can kick out there? Using up an import position to punt, regardless how important it is, seems a little wasteful. I believe Saskatchewan was able to do it because they had good Canadian talent (some of which they lost in the Ottawa draft). Did they not start 8 NI's in the Grey Cup game? Our Canadian talent? Someone explain to me how and why Keynan Parker is on the team.
My two cents.
Khalif Mitchell: Had virtually no stats well into the season. We were told that wasn't indicative of how good his play was. I think it's safe to say it was. He isn't missed in any manner, shape or form, including his on-field cheerleading. Wally should stop being a hard-you-know-what and go about trying to sign Westerman. From there, get another Canadian DL-DE in the off season so you can have the three guys to maintain the one NI starting spot and back up the rest of the line.
Dante Marsh: This is really quite odd. Is this also a 'Wally thing'? Lee and Williams did do pretty well replacing Marsh and Yell, but I would think Marsh will play again this year. Not next, though.
Courtenay Taylor: I would have cut Ernest Jackson a long time ago. I always felt he got far too many chances and failed. I'm now wondering if he was simply not in the right position. He looked very good in these last couple games. So, he continues the way he's been going, and it would be foolish to move him out of that position. He looks dangerous once he gets the ball. I don't think we have a lot of receivers you could say that about.
Tuinei didn't have quite the game last time out that he did the game before, but I'd keep him around. Throw it near him and throw it high.
Tim Brown: He was always going to be replaced. He would have got beat up on the returns over time and some new flashy type would be brought in to take his spot. That seems to be how it is for guys like him. Good guy, but a Brown or Antolin decision would be Antolin. I especially liked the way Antolin blocked on the returns. Wondering if Iannuzzi can stand up to the pounding the returner takes?
Stefan Logan: BC somewhat overrated its talent this year. Logan and Mitchell were two who did not come through for me. Logan even made a return error in one game where he brought it out to the four or five yard line, if I'm not mistaken. He should play again this year, but there are a lot of RB's out there and maybe a bigger, younger one could come in next year to augment Harris (if he returns to form) and Antolin.
Shawn Gore: Adding this one. He will, of course, play the rest of the year, and maybe return next year. However, he's dropped enough footballs for me. I would try someone else at his position. Maybe Poblah to see if he really has anything. Maybe another import.
Ricky Schmitt: May be another overrated player. He's been okay, but not sure he's what they expected. No Canadians who can kick out there? Using up an import position to punt, regardless how important it is, seems a little wasteful. I believe Saskatchewan was able to do it because they had good Canadian talent (some of which they lost in the Ottawa draft). Did they not start 8 NI's in the Grey Cup game? Our Canadian talent? Someone explain to me how and why Keynan Parker is on the team.
My two cents.
I've wondered the same, but there is the difficulty of judging performance when playing a couple bad teams in a row. At least, I think there is. Myself? I've made up my mind.
I believe the following players will not be back next season.
Khalif Mitchell
Dante Marsh
Stephan Logan
I see the following players being on the bubble but potentially brought back to training camp.
Ricky Schmitt
Tim Brown
Khareen Smith
Jamal Johnson
Competition
Our Leos could go with three import receivers next season with Arsenault, Ernest Jackson, and Courtney Taylor as the incumbants but fighting it out with Tuinei and Burnham. Gore will be back or traded. Canadian receivers like Gore have worth but we do have good depth behind him.
I believe the following players will not be back next season.
Khalif Mitchell
Dante Marsh
Stephan Logan
I see the following players being on the bubble but potentially brought back to training camp.
Ricky Schmitt
Tim Brown
Khareen Smith
Jamal Johnson
Competition
Our Leos could go with three import receivers next season with Arsenault, Ernest Jackson, and Courtney Taylor as the incumbants but fighting it out with Tuinei and Burnham. Gore will be back or traded. Canadian receivers like Gore have worth but we do have good depth behind him.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
- WestCoastJoe
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You guys are heartless. LOL
Hey, you have the basic qualification to be a GM. Hello, Wally.
I always recall one of Wally's comments in an early interview when he arrived as B.C.'s GM/HC. He said that in his career he wished he could have been nicer. Nice does not go with being a GM. Or even a HC, it seems to me. Fair. But decisive. It is a business. Not there to make friends.
I'm gonna wait until the season is over to speculate on the release of these guys.
Except I will say that Khreem Smith has been challenged by ... how many recruits? 20? 30? I would not count him out for next year. His production might be the best now of all his productive years here.
Hey, you have the basic qualification to be a GM. Hello, Wally.
I always recall one of Wally's comments in an early interview when he arrived as B.C.'s GM/HC. He said that in his career he wished he could have been nicer. Nice does not go with being a GM. Or even a HC, it seems to me. Fair. But decisive. It is a business. Not there to make friends.
I'm gonna wait until the season is over to speculate on the release of these guys.
Except I will say that Khreem Smith has been challenged by ... how many recruits? 20? 30? I would not count him out for next year. His production might be the best now of all his productive years here.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jamal Johnson will not be back IMO, too many penalties not enough impact. Sad as I was really looking for his hitting to go along with Bighill and Elimimian. Otherwise, I would say that your list is pretty accurate, Schmitt if a 3 toolbox K/P is found, Brown is as good as gone, too many injuries, and Marsh may have to relocate positions in order to stay. Mitchell has gone downhill rapidly, not enough impact that he is capable of bringing, not sure how that happened.Blitz wrote:I've wondered the same, but there is the difficulty of judging performance when playing a couple bad teams in a row. At least, I think there is. Myself? I've made up my mind.
I believe the following players will not be back next season.
Khalif Mitchell
Dante Marsh
Stephan Logan
I see the following players being on the bubble but potentially brought back to training camp.
Ricky Schmitt
Tim Brown
Khareen Smith
Jamal Johnson
Competition
Our Leos could go with three import receivers next season with Arsenault, Ernest Jackson, and Courtney Taylor as the incumbants but fighting it out with Tuinei and Burnham. Gore will be back or traded. Canadian receivers like Gore have worth but we do have good depth behind him.
Entertainment value = an all time low
Schmitt has been a disappointment. B.C. ranks third in the league in kickoffs at an average of 63.7 yards (not counting onside kicks) but just fifth in net kickoffss at 42.0 yards. Schmitt is tied for sixth in punting average at 44.5 yards despite giving way to McCallum for coffin-corner attempts that cut into punting averages. B.C. ranks eighth in net punting yards, sixth in number of punts inside the 20 yard line and seventh in number of punts inside the 10 yard line. For that, the Lions have had to adjust the ratio so players such as Ernest Jackson, Tim Brown or Khalif Mitchell often couldn't get onto the 44-man roster.
I can't disagree but also circumstances OFTEN end up 'changing the game'. A purrfect example of what I mean by that is DID ANYBODY think the Riders would DOGGEDLY pursue Henry Burris and upon failing to findangle a trade, sign Kerry Joseph?
Even if things are looking like 'thats it' for a player, due to unforseen circumstances down the road, they maybe back in a season or two....
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IMO, Wally's perspective on 'culture' is important too. I'm not going to name anybody but the BC Lions players are like any other large group of people. Some Lions players are not so good at staying on time. Arriving late for flights or practice etc.... Not saying anyone in particular, BUT, I have heard Buono openly GRUMBLING about "BEING ON TIME, HOW CAN YOU BE LATE FOR A FLIGHT?" (this was a flight from Ottawa TO Vancouver).
From my perspective, it is one of those things that is important too. Talk to people who are faithfully on time and they'll agree whilst the chronic late-comers will be 'whats the big deal'.
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I'm usually baffled by a player or two's release and one/two's non-release. For e.g. there is a starter on this years LIons that I'm amazed is still starting let alone on the team. And the fact K Banks is no longer a member of the team. Or Keron. Regardless, I wouldn't want the job of letting guys go.....
Even if things are looking like 'thats it' for a player, due to unforseen circumstances down the road, they maybe back in a season or two....
_____________________________________
IMO, Wally's perspective on 'culture' is important too. I'm not going to name anybody but the BC Lions players are like any other large group of people. Some Lions players are not so good at staying on time. Arriving late for flights or practice etc.... Not saying anyone in particular, BUT, I have heard Buono openly GRUMBLING about "BEING ON TIME, HOW CAN YOU BE LATE FOR A FLIGHT?" (this was a flight from Ottawa TO Vancouver).
From my perspective, it is one of those things that is important too. Talk to people who are faithfully on time and they'll agree whilst the chronic late-comers will be 'whats the big deal'.
_________________________________
I'm usually baffled by a player or two's release and one/two's non-release. For e.g. there is a starter on this years LIons that I'm amazed is still starting let alone on the team. And the fact K Banks is no longer a member of the team. Or Keron. Regardless, I wouldn't want the job of letting guys go.....
- Hambone
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I don't think the Riders DOGGEDLY pursued Burris. They would've inquired for sure. However I doubt it went much beyond that because I doubt Ottawa was all that interested in giving Burris up unless the Riders made a stupid offer that was flat out too good to refuse. Just as I doubt Ottawa was willing to ship Hank out I doubt the Riders were willing to surrender what it would take to change Desjardins' mind. I say that because when I look at the REDBLACKS QB depth chart and who might possibly be available in the offseason to fill the void left by Burris it appears to me that Hank would be Ottawa's best QB option for 2015. Simply put I don't believe Ottawa could afford to let Burris go until they secure a replacement for him. Last year we knew Collaros and Willy would be on the move. This year without knowing the contractual situation of the likes of Tate and possibly Nichols the cupboards may be bare for potential experienced QB candidates who might be on the move. So yes I believe the Riders did inquire but were politely told to take a hike. It's a difficult trade to try and swing when the player in question would be valued so much differently by the two potential trading partners.notahomer wrote:I can't disagree but also circumstances OFTEN end up 'changing the game'. A purrfect example of what I mean by that is DID ANYBODY think the Riders would DOGGEDLY pursue Henry Burris and upon failing to findangle a trade, sign Kerry Joseph?
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
And from what I have seen of Joseph's play in Saskatchewan, I doubt that Burris would have been an upgrade. I would have expected similar play, perhaps with a little more in the tank from Hank, going the full 60. Also, I don't think that Joseph is getting better after taking the abuse that he has so far. He is feeling the return of playing, at his age.Hambone wrote:I don't think the Riders DOGGEDLY pursued Burris. They would've inquired for sure. However I doubt it went much beyond that because I doubt Ottawa was all that interested in giving Burris up unless the Riders made a stupid offer that was flat out too good to refuse. Just as I doubt Ottawa was willing to ship Hank out I doubt the Riders were willing to surrender what it would take to change Desjardins' mind. I say that because when I look at the REDBLACKS QB depth chart and who might possibly be available in the offseason to fill the void left by Burris it appears to me that Hank would be Ottawa's best QB option for 2015. Simply put I don't believe Ottawa could afford to let Burris go until they secure a replacement for him. Last year we knew Collaros and Willy would be on the move. This year without knowing the contractual situation of the likes of Tate and possibly Nichols the cupboards may be bare for potential experienced QB candidates who might be on the move. So yes I believe the Riders did inquire but were politely told to take a hike. It's a difficult trade to try and swing when the player in question would be valued so much differently by the two potential trading partners.notahomer wrote:I can't disagree but also circumstances OFTEN end up 'changing the game'. A purrfect example of what I mean by that is DID ANYBODY think the Riders would DOGGEDLY pursue Henry Burris and upon failing to findangle a trade, sign Kerry Joseph?
Entertainment value = an all time low
-
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Given his lack of stats, Khalif Mitchell won't be back.
Other potential non returnees include: Jamal Johnson, Dante Marsh, Stefan Logan and Paul McCallum
Other potential non returnees include: Jamal Johnson, Dante Marsh, Stefan Logan and Paul McCallum
- Hambone
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In fairness one joined the defending GC champs with several of the pieces remaining from that championship team. The other joined an expansion team with a typical expansion roster full of journeymen calibre players who have bounced around the league or youngsters lacking experience. Joseph has greatly exceeded my expectations in the Rider environment but I'm not convinced he's playing better than I'd expect Burris to do in the same situation. Nor do I think he'd be in any way an improvement over Burris if thrown into the Ottawa situation.Solar Max wrote:Given Burris' performance this season , the GREENWHITES are likely better off with Joseph anyway.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
- Sir Purrcival
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Interesting topic although maybe a bit insensitive. There are several names here that resonate for me as long shots to be here next year or if they do return are likely to be relegated to backup status for less pay. I won't put names to my list at this time but there are a few on this squad who may not be able to compete with some of the newer faces who have filled in admirably when called upon to do so.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
- Hambone
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My intention wasn't to be insensitive. More an observation with the thought that all too often during the trials and tribulations of an ongoing season we as fans get caught up with the "now" moment. We don't look at players such as these and reflect back on what they've contributed until suddenly they're gone. My thinking is to recognize that their time as Lions may be soon coming to an end so that if they do get back into the lineup I can reflect and appreciate them while they are on the field for perhaps the last time.Sir Purrcival wrote:Interesting topic although maybe a bit insensitive. There are several names here that resonate for me as long shots to be here next year or if they do return are likely to be relegated to backup status for less pay. I won't put names to my list at this time but there are a few on this squad who may not be able to compete with some of the newer faces who have filled in admirably when called upon to do so.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
Every football player believes he can play. Only the most naïve player believes he can't be replaced. All of the players listed in this thread can still play. Roster decisions are based on a long list of factors, including age, salary, ratio and the availability of capable replacements. Those are the factors upon which hard decisions are made. Wally is pretty good at making those hard decisions.Hambone wrote:My intention wasn't to be insensitive. More an observation with the thought that all too often during the trials and tribulations of an ongoing season we as fans get caught up with the "now" moment. We don't look at players such as these and reflect back on what they've contributed until suddenly they're gone. My thinking is to recognize that their time as Lions may be soon coming to an end so that if they do get back into the lineup I can reflect and appreciate them while they are on the field for perhaps the last time.Sir Purrcival wrote:Interesting topic although maybe a bit insensitive. There are several names here that resonate for me as long shots to be here next year or if they do return are likely to be relegated to backup status for less pay. I won't put names to my list at this time but there are a few on this squad who may not be able to compete with some of the newer faces who have filled in admirably when called upon to do so.