Lions 26 - Bombers 9 -- Post Game Stats and Comments

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Blitz
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cromartie wrote:
Blitz wrote:We beat the Bombers because our offence contributed to our defense. Our offence played well overall, for these simple reasons -

1. We used many more tight end sets than usual with an extra lineman and Lumbala lined up as the tight ends.

2. We rushed the football more than 20 times

3. We rushed for 165 yards - a huge difference than our previous three games.

The run helped with pass protection and opened up the passing attack, allowing us to go vertical for some big plays. We wrapped up the game with our ability to run the football.
First off, kudos to whoever hung the "Parks Department" sign. That was pretty funny.

Some thoughts on this.

I would submit that the only reason you saw Lumbala on the field as much as you did was because, with injuries to Taylor and Haidera, the depth chart was getting thin.

Winnipeg doesn't disguise much on defence. In the first half, they sent Maurice Leggett three times on a short side blitz on 2nd and long, two of which resulted in sacks against a five man line. The third time it happened, you would think someone would have noticed and picked it up. Nope.

Like the Don Matthews coached Alouettes of the early 'aughts, when they put seven men on the line of scrimmage, they were sending seven men. Consistently.

The third drive of the second half is indicative of what really irritates me about this offense. Facing a consistent seven man rush, the first two plays featured seven men on the line of scrimmage, the results were an 11 yard pass and a 14 yard rush. The third play was a six man offensive line, which was a pass to Logan for no gain (thanks to a missed downfield block). The fourth play was an old Jacqueball special, a five man line with trips in tight to the short side, and that resulted in a 14 yard gain.

Then, it was a five man line, the results of which were: Harris stuffed, incompletion, punt.

In the end, we wore them down, which is fine. But it's as much about getting your line some help, understanding what your opponent is doing and adjusting to it as it is simplifying the blocking schemes. And we don't adjust very well.
Keen observations cromartie and I concur. I mostly focused on the 'what'' and you provided the 'why' insightfully.

Our offence drives me crazy too. In fact I have no idea why so many CFL offences are so stuck in the spread offence...and I was very surprised this year when Khari Jones re-introduced full spread empty backfield that even Chap had abandoned. Without going into a whole Chap thing...the best thing I liked about our offence from 2011 -2013 is that we used less spread and more power formations than any other CFL team but still it was not enough. Most CFL defenses are going to continue to blitz the spread with obvious change-ups at times.

Its interesting to see how most CFL defenses like to defend us, when we are in the spread. Most blitz us while either playing zone or combination/man zone (except in the red zone, where they often go man). For example Andrew Harris was wide open for his short touchdown pass against Winnipeg because they Winnipeg blitzed and went man and Winnipeg didn't account for him but that isn't they way defenses play us between the 20's,

A common defense against us, when we go 5 receiver spread is that they blitz with 6 (often usinng stunts as well )against our 5 offensive lineman. If we don't keep Harris or Logan in to block, then one of their defenders has a free route to our quarterback. Often this ends up being two defenders with a clear route to the quarterback because our blitz or stunt pickup is so bad. It forces a very quick throw, under lots of pressure for our quarterback, if he can get it off.

Of course we can throw to Harris or Logan out of the backfield but the defense accounts for the tailback in either zone or combination man/zone and we also have to throw the pass to the tailback quickly. How do defenses do this? Quite simply they cheat. How do they cheat>? Most often they leave the wide flat wide open, knowing that our offence is unlikely to make that long throw, under quick pressure, to Iannuzzi out there....

When they blitz seven defenders against our five offensive lineman, even if we keep our tailback in to block, one defender will come free and with Dorazio's terrible blitz/stunt pickup this usually means two defenders coming free. That, once again forces a very quick pass under big pressure, if we can avoid the sack. We can release the tailback out of the backfield for a quick pass but the tailack is accounte for. How does the defense do this, when we have five receivers and a tailback running a pass pattern. Quite simply, they cheat even more. They usually account for the tailback, leaving four defenders to cover five receivers. Once again, they leave the wide flat open and without a safety in the middle, they believe that we won't have the time to get the football off deep down the middle.

I won't even bother discussing the six receiver, empty backfield set. The results are obvious.

Of course, we so often struggle with being defended this way and our quarterback gets quick pressured, hit, mauled, and sacked. The blitz often works as a run blitz as well.

Another thing that drove me crazy at times, when Chap coached the offence and we also saw in the Winipeg game is that we used Lumbala and an extra lineman, when we go power set. The defense doesn't count for the extra lineman in their pass defense and why should they (except for down at the goal line, when they should).

What would be wiser would be to use two tight ends that can block and catch. Lumbala is ok for one of those positions. The other tight end we should have been using Ernest Jackson (when he was in the lineup) or Haidara, I remember well, at one time when we lined up Lyle Green and Jason Clermont often, as tight ends against Don Mathews Alouettes blitz and burned them but of course we went back to running Clermont on suicide underneath crossing patterns again. Its like the spread is a religion to too many offensive coordinators. The New England Patriots saw the writing on the wall for the spread, as have other NFL teams but most CFL coordinators have not made the paradign change. (hwo is that for a phrase.. :wink: )

When you look around the CFL, most offensive coordiantors are still stuck in the spread. Cortez is a huge disciple of it in Saskatchewan as is Austin in Hamilton, Milanovich in Toronto, Dinwiddie in Montreal, etc, etc, and most CFL offensive coordinators use it as their primary formation. Khari Jones uses it much more often than Chap did in his last 3 years.

Change comes slowly, even when it should be obvious that its necessary, as your post clearly showed cromartie. :beauty:
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Blitz wrote:Our offence drives me crazy too. In fact I have no idea why so many CFL offences are so stuck in the spread offence...and I was very surprised this year when Khari Jones re-introduced full spread empty backfield that even Chap had abandoned. Without going into a whole Chap thing...the best thing I liked about our offence from 2011 -2013 is that we used less spread and more power formations than any other CFL team but still it was not enough. Most CFL defenses are going to continue to blitz the spread with obvious change-ups at times.
Ya know Blitz in recent years I've wondered what would happen if on first down the QB went up under centre instead of in the shotgun. What if the RB was taking the handoff and hitting the line with speed instead of starting in a delayed handoff type thing. You know, like they used to do that in the old days? Imagine the offence breaking the huddle, trotting up to the line quickly instead of in the lumbering walk they use now. Imagine the QB quickly going under centre, snap on one and boom handoff to the RB. Would the defence even know what hit them? I'm envisioning the defence going after the refs asking if that play was legal.
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Toppy Vann wrote:
sj-roc wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:The command centre did the review as it was a scoring play. It had zero to do with the Stadium or the teams involved. Granted Wpg's HC was sure smiling when it was called out of bounds as it gave them the ball at the 38.
My understanding is that only plays that result in SCORES by on-field ruling get the automatic review treatment. So this wouldn't apply here (the FG was missed, no score there; the ball carrier was deemed out of goal, no score there either). What about plays where the ball gets spotted down inside the 1-yard line? Are these ever AR'ed to determine if there were a missed TD or safety, as the case may be? I'm not aware that this is the standard MO.

At any rate it's pure amateur hour that game ops would undermine our own team like this. At least make O'Shea throw the flag if he wants the yards.
This says all kicking plays too are reviewed. Higgins oversaw this back in 2012 and it appears the coaches wanted kicking plays in for review.
It was believed that the rules committee would only recommend nonkicking scores be reviewed without costing a coach a challenge attempt, but the group of coaches, general managers, team presidents, league personnel and a players’ association rep also included converts and field goals.

“Even if you only get one correct per year that wouldn’t have been correct, it’s worth it,” said Tom Higgins, the CFL’s director of officiating.

“Scoring plays have a great impact on the outcome of a game and putting in additional measures to ensure those calls are correct is prudent. When considering these types of changes, we also must consider the flow of the game and the duration of any challenge. For the vast majority of scoring plays, we believe that the replay official will confirm the scoring plays before the next play without a delay.

“The biggest challenge (to a kick review) is camera angles. There are 10 cameras in use during a regular-season game, as compared to 32 in the Grey Cup.”

Higgins says that the reviews won’t slow the game down.
http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/223 ... y-reviews/
Hmmmm... I don't think it says that all kicking plays are reviewed. I think it's saying that all kicking plays that generate scores are reviewed. In general it seems to say that scoring plays are subject to AR but has nothing to say about whether a play for which a score might possibly have occurred, but was deemed on-field not to, would be AR'ed.
...kicking plays are included in the CFL’s new automatic review of all scoring plays. ...

It was believed that the rules committee would only recommend nonkicking scores be reviewed without costing a coach a challenge attempt, but the group of coaches, general managers, team presidents, league personnel and a players’ association rep also included converts and field goals. ...

... "... For the vast majority of scoring plays, we believe that the replay official will confirm the scoring plays before the next play without a delay." [Higgins
But even if the FGA kick (which in this case was obviously no good) were reviewed, would they still go on to review the KR OOB aspect? I still don't see how the review that unfolded Sat night falls within the parameters of AR, because on-field, there was no deemed score. It's like that Milanovich challenge from a couple of years ago (which was re-hashed here in another thread a week ago), whereby the AR'ed did NOT include whether JJ's ceding of possession was via fumble or incompletion, rather only whether the score (the TD by the Wpg fumble recoverer) was legit as far as TDs go.

One wonders what would happen in a scenario whereby a kick (whether punt or MFG) lands short of the goal-line, is recovered in the field of play clearly short of the goal line and returned to, say, the kicking team's own 8-yd line (no TD). Is there any circumstance whereby CC would review — in the ABSENCE of a coach's challenge (i.e., an Automatic Review) — whether the KR stepped OOB anywhere in the course of his kick return? The only essential difference in this scenario from the one that unfolded is stepping OOB outside of goal rather than inside it.

The other odd aspect of this play is that you can see in the tape, there's an official (#74) not far from the KR around when his foot comes down OOB, and there's another official at the back of the endzone. I'm not trying to get into criticising officials with this, but is it part of 74's assignment to watch for OOB, or is he specifically assigned to watch for other things? Seems as the closest official to the play it ought to be part of his assignment, or perhaps this was for the guy at the back to decide. At any rate it was missed on-field.

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sj-roc wrote:

The other odd aspect of this play is that you can see in the tape, there's an official (#74) not far from the KR around when his foot comes down OOB, and there's another official at the back of the endzone. I'm not trying to get into criticising officials with this, but is it part of 74's assignment to watch for OOB, or is he specifically assigned to watch for other things? Seems as the closest official to the play it ought to be part of his assignment, or perhaps this was for the guy at the back to decide. At any rate it was missed on-field.

Image
Maybe one or both were distracted by the monster block on Bighill in that corner. I know these guys are supposed to be focused on their responsibilities but there have to be times when something such as a monster block or hit in their immediate periphrial vision that grabs their attention and draws their eyes away even if for a nanosecond.
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Hambone wrote:
Blitz wrote:Our offence drives me crazy too. In fact I have no idea why so many CFL offences are so stuck in the spread offence...and I was very surprised this year when Khari Jones re-introduced full spread empty backfield that even Chap had abandoned. Without going into a whole Chap thing...the best thing I liked about our offence from 2011 -2013 is that we used less spread and more power formations than any other CFL team but still it was not enough. Most CFL defenses are going to continue to blitz the spread with obvious change-ups at times.
Ya know Blitz in recent years I've wondered what would happen if on first down the QB went up under centre instead of in the shotgun. What if the RB was taking the handoff and hitting the line with speed instead of starting in a delayed handoff type thing. You know, like they used to do that in the old days? Imagine the offence breaking the huddle, trotting up to the line quickly instead of in the lumbering walk they use now. Imagine the QB quickly going under centre, snap on one and boom handoff to the RB. Would the defence even know what hit them? I'm envisioning the defence going after the refs asking if that play was legal.
I've favored the use of the direct snap under center for downs in which there is a run or pass option for quite a while now...eg. first and ten, second and six or shorter. The shotgun snap would only be used for long passing downs, which is the way it was introduced. However, the ability for a quarterback to take a three, five, and seven step drop these days would likely have to be re-trained.

The lineman have to be set for one second before the snap but certainly the quick snap was a good weapon in days of old.

Everything has a cycle and the cycle of the spread offence or at least its nadir is over. Defenses have more than adjusted to it with blitzes, nickel and dime backs, personell, combination man/zone defenses, etc. etc. The spread offence still has some value as a formation but it should only be one of multiple formations of an offensive system.

The CFL offensive coordinator who actually brings back the pure tight end as a vital part of an offence will be ahead of the curve. The tight end would mostly line up tight beside the tackle, on either side of the formation but on occasion could be spread out as was done at one time with players like Pat Claridge, Tony Gabriel, Ray Elgard etc. The tight end, used as a blocker, really assists the run game. But the tight end would also be a good receiver who could be used against linebackers and smaller nickel backs. In pass protection, the tight end could be used as an additional blocker to force a defensive end outside, to double team a very good pass rushing defensive end or to pick up a blitzer. The tight end could also be used to chip block, before going out on a pass pattern, provding more time for the quarterback to throw. The tight end would also be send deep on occasion if given one on one coverage with a linebacker.

The tight ends we use now, on occasion are really fullbacks who are used mainly as blockers and are not really good receivers nor are they used as such if they could be...or they are an extra lineman who are slow and are not good at pass patterns of catching the football.

The second tight end would be a hybrid player who could actually play fullback, tight end, or H back. Lumbala serves this role right now and does a decent job but a taller, faster player who had good size would be a better option. If they are not developed in college they could be.

Jason Clermont was purrfect for the role but was used in this way only occasionally. Lyle Green also had the ability of the hybrid fullback/tight end/H back. Fantuz of Hamilton is a player who should be used as a tight end and his talents are mostly wasted with the spread offence.

I think its important to remember where the spread offence came from. It orginated at the college level by underdog teams who could not compete with big colleges who could recruit studs for the offensive line and big talented running backs...those teams just ran the football down the opposition throasts. The spread was introduced as a way to upset those more talented teams. The fullback was removed from the offence, the tailback was mostly used as a receiver, and the receivers were spread out to minimize the more talented opposition's linebackers. It was primarily a passing offensive system with the running game based on quick hitters, inside the tackles, as the defense was more spread out.

The shot gun snap was introduced because the spread was mainly a passing offence. Eventually the offence became the flavor de jour and became very popular in the pros for a long while. However defenses saw it a lot and eventually adjusted to it in a variety of ways (strategy, personell). Some NFL teams have moved to becoming zone read offences with mobile quarterbacks while others have gone back to the use of tight ends (eg: New England, Seattle) and the use of multiple formations (single and double tights, pro sets, and spread sets)

We are behind the curve and going backwards. The more a defense sees something the better they get at defending it. Defenses have seen the spread offence since Hufnagel introduced it in Calgary in the 90's under Buono. Back then it was innovative. Two decades later, its boring and predictable and much more easily defended.

By the way, Tom Brady takes a direct snap under center around 50% of the time now or more and at one time he was always in the shot gun.

Time for Khari Jones to do something innovative. Your thoughts.... Hambone on the direct snap being re-introduced (while retaining the shot gun for certain situations) are shared by me...
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Sj-roc, I have a question that I would like to ask and have you comment about (others too if you care!).....

Didn't that review cause as many problems as it supposedly fixed?

I feel it did. It comes from 'consistency' which is my usual complaint/concern about officiating. I use the handle 'notahomer' here because I feel my fandoms eyes are tinted a lot less orange (BUT THEY ARE STILL ORANGE) than many of my fellow in stadium fans. I don't care what the rules are, I just want them to be called/enforced consistently. That means both teams are getting flagged/not flagged for the same things. That also means a call in the first quarter should be very close to the same call you'd make in the fourth quarter (sometimes tickytack PI's get flagged early, complete MUGGINGS are not, late in the game). So if the officials call something and it falls within the realm of what a coach can challenge, the coach tosses the challenge flag. Central Comman or whatever its called is supposed to make sure a scoring play RULED by the officiating crew, WAS A LEGAL SCORING PLAY.

If O'Shea or Benevides wanted that missed field goal play reviewed, they both had the option of tossing a flag. Since no flag was tossed and it was NOT ruled a scoring play on the field, LEAVE IT ALONE. However, if that is now the precedent, then other MIGHT BE A SCORE, had better be reviewed. And it will open up a lot more calls. WHAT COULD BE A SCORING PLAY and what was ruled a scoring play ARE OFTEN TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Do we want EVERY CALL to be right?

I do wonder if it was in anyones interest to throw a challenge flag on that play. In some ways, it may have made sense for OShea to do so, to give up the point but gain the field position. He ended up with that outcome anyways without it costing him a challenge attempt.
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notahomer wrote:Sj-roc, I have a question that I would like to ask and have you comment about (others too if you care!).....

Didn't that review cause as many problems as it supposedly fixed?

I feel it did. It comes from 'consistency' which is my usual complaint/concern about officiating. I use the handle 'notahomer' here because I feel my fandoms eyes are tinted a lot less orange (BUT THEY ARE STILL ORANGE) than many of my fellow in stadium fans. I don't care what the rules are, I just want them to be called/enforced consistently. That means both teams are getting flagged/not flagged for the same things. That also means a call in the first quarter should be very close to the same call you'd make in the fourth quarter (sometimes tickytack PI's get flagged early, complete MUGGINGS are not, late in the game). So if the officials call something and it falls within the realm of what a coach can challenge, the coach tosses the challenge flag. Central Comman or whatever its called is supposed to make sure a scoring play RULED by the officiating crew, WAS A LEGAL SCORING PLAY.

If O'Shea or Benevides wanted that missed field goal play reviewed, they both had the option of tossing a flag. Since no flag was tossed and it was NOT ruled a scoring play on the field, LEAVE IT ALONE. However, if that is now the precedent, then other MIGHT BE A SCORE, had better be reviewed. And it will open up a lot more calls. WHAT COULD BE A SCORING PLAY and what was ruled a scoring play ARE OFTEN TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Do we want EVERY CALL to be right?

I do wonder if it was in anyones interest to throw a challenge flag on that play. In some ways, it may have made sense for OShea to do so, to give up the point but gain the field position. He ended up with that outcome anyways without it costing him a challenge attempt.
Did it cause as many problems as it fixed? Perhaps. As I've said all along, it's only plays that produce scores that are subject to AR (the only exception is a play after the 3MW, after which they can review anything on their own), so this one should not have been reviewed without a coach's challenge. This is why I was so upset with game ops incessantly re-playing it on the video board (in slow motion, even, with an arrow on his foot for good measure :bang: ) because I can't see what else triggered the AR.

I agree that if scores are always AR'ed, then a play for which there is a reasonable doubt that no score occurred should also be subject to AR, but this isn't the case right now. I don't like the asymmetry of the current rule but it's on the books this way and as such we should play by it. No unilateral picking and choosing during Q3 of what, and what not, to AR.

Bad calls occur from time to time. It's part of the game. Sometimes it goes our way, sometimes not. I know this sounds homer-ish but when it does, I'd rather see game ops muzzled. Let the other team challenge. AFAIK there's no rule saying game ops has to replay everything — God knows there's enough complaints on here of not seeing enough of them — so as long as this is the case let's put our home field advantage to use.

One may ask, should game ops be obligated to replay everything, by league fiat, in the spirit of both sides getting a second look at every play that doesn't go their way and getting a chance to decide on challenging? That's a separate discussion, and one that presumes every stadium has a good quality video board (wasn't always this way but things have improved recently with many teams either moving into new buildings or upgrading existing ones). At any rate, don't both teams have access to TSN's feed on monitors in their respective spotter's booths?

I wonder if everything had happened in reverse on the play — i.e., Wpg up by 9, missing the FG and our KR accidentally stepping OOB in goal before reaching our own 10 to end the play — would game ops have been on the ball and showed all those replays in that situation? I don't know.
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notahomer wrote:I do wonder if it was in anyones interest to throw a challenge flag on that play. In some ways, it may have made sense for OShea to do so, to give up the point but gain the field position. He ended up with that outcome anyways without it costing him a challenge attempt.
After the replays of that play showed on the big screen a lot of fans were screaming for a challenge. Before CFL Control signaled Proulx to tell him they were reviewing it I saw an assistant talking in Bene's ear. It was easy to tell by the body language of both that the assistant was asking MB about challenge and MB was saying no way we want the Bombers pinned deep. When the replay came up that first had fans hollering for Bene to challenge I immediately said to the guys behind me no we don't want that challenged. A couple them couldn't grasp the logic. Even when I asked one guy what would we rather have if it was a punt? Ball out of bounds at the 10 or single and ball at the 35 he still didn't get it.
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notahomer wrote:
I do wonder if it was in anyones interest to throw a challenge flag on that play. In some ways, it may have made sense for OShea to do so, to give up the point but gain the field position. He ended up with that outcome anyways without it costing him a challenge attempt.
From a "body language" standpoint, it was my perception that MB was actively discouraging people from protesting the lack of a review too much. Probably because he sensed that the point wasn't worth more than the field position.
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Same issue in my section of the crowd. Lots of people cheering for the OOB. I felt compelled to say in a loud voice that we don't want it to be OOB. It is better if we take it as is. The guys in front of me had to think about it and so did the folks behind me. After the ball was replaced on the 35. They were a lot quieter and if anything looking a little sheepish. The replay screen operator should really know better. One replay would have been enough. The little pointy arrow however was over the top. Someone needs to teach him some strategy behind the game.
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I love to see the direct snap under centre to make a comeback. The only time we ever see it these days is on short yardage ie. 3rd and 1
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Same issue in my section of the crowd. Lots of people cheering for the OOB. I felt compelled to say in a loud voice that we don't want it to be OOB. It is better if we take it as is. The guys in front of me had to think about it and so did the folks behind me. After the ball was replaced on the 35. They were a lot quieter and if anything looking a little sheepish. The replay screen operator should really know better. One replay would have been enough. The little pointy arrow however was over the top. Someone needs to teach him some strategy behind the game.
That wasn't homefield advantage and one of the stranger happenings that you are going to witness. The fans wanting the play overturned for the single, and loss of field position. With the backup in, it was obvious to put him as close to his own goalposts as possible and let the play stand.
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Any injury updates for Friday yet? I saw Courtney Taylor at a gas station near the practice facility this morning and he was limping still:-( Hope he can go in the next few weeks...Phillips said he will play not sure about Haidera...maybe the Leos will finally activate Stephen Adekulo this Friday
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sj-roc wrote:......I agree that if scores are always AR'ed, then a play for which there is a reasonable doubt that no score occurred should also be subject to AR, but this isn't the case right now. I don't like the asymmetry of the current rule but it's on the books this way and as such we should play by it. No unilateral picking and choosing during Q3 of what, and what not, to AR......
Exactly! I felt we were on the same page back on Saturday night when I read your comments then. Consistency is what matters.
sj-roc wrote:One may ask, should game ops be obligated to replay everything,.....
I want them to have to. For lots of reasons. The fact it MAY cause a challenge is irrelevant to me. Often there are incomplete passes or stuffed runs, that I still want to see a replay on. IIRC, when BC Place first opened (in the 80s) it prided itself on showing replays of every play. Maybe its just wishful memory on my part :dizzy: I like long TD passes and long runs as much as the next fan does but I like all those other plays too. Show them, let me decide whether they are worth watching. I'm usually GLUED to the replay screen in between plays. I even sometimes end up watching a play LIVE on the replay screen because somebody is coming or going from their seat while the play is on. Nice to not miss a play just because Bob wants another beer and doesn't want to wait until the play is over to get it.... :bang:
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Rammer wrote:That wasn't homefield advantage and one of the stranger happenings that you are going to witness. The fans wanting the play overturned for the single, and loss of field position. With the backup in, it was obvious to put him as close to his own goalposts as possible and let the play stand.
Sir Purrcival wrote:Same issue in my section of the crowd. Lots of people cheering for the OOB. I felt compelled to say in a loud voice that we don't want it to be OOB. It is better if we take it as is. The guys in front of me had to think about it and so did the folks behind me. After the ball was replaced on the 35. They were a lot quieter and if anything looking a little sheepish. The replay screen operator should really know better. One replay would have been enough. The little pointy arrow however was over the top. Someone needs to teach him some strategy behind the game.
cromartie wrote:From a "body language" standpoint, it was my perception that MB was actively discouraging people from protesting the lack of a review too much. Probably because he sensed that the point wasn't worth more than the field position.
Hambone wrote:After the replays of that play showed on the big screen a lot of fans were screaming for a challenge. Before CFL Control signaled Proulx to tell him they were reviewing it I saw an assistant talking in Bene's ear. It was easy to tell by the body language of both that the assistant was asking MB about challenge and MB was saying no way we want the Bombers pinned deep. When the replay came up that first had fans hollering for Bene to challenge I immediately said to the guys behind me no we don't want that challenged. A couple them couldn't grasp the logic. Even when I asked one guy what would we rather have if it was a punt? Ball out of bounds at the 10 or single and ball at the 35 he still didn't get it.
Thanks for all your input, guys, I'll quit squawking about it now but it sounds like most of us knew then, what we are still saying now. At the time I was one of a few, but not the only one, in my section (218) NOT HOLLERING FOR THE SINGLE.

I have to give Proulx crews credit. They keep teaching me things and making me think about things due to the calls they make on the field. I gripe alot about this crew in particular, but ALWAYS ADMIT they have, can and will DO BETTER THAN I COULD.
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