Sochi Paralympics in Trouble?

[South Pender]

Maybe not, but things look dicey with the Russian intrusion of troops in Crimea. The US and UK governments have pulled their government delegations from the games. Canadian officials have remained mute on whether any Canadian protests will take place.

http://swampland.time.com/2014/03/03/u- ... incursion/

Here's a piece by Cathal Kelly of the Toronto Star advocating a total Canadian boycott (including the athletes) of the games.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2014 ... kelly.html

[KnowItAll]

and yet, the usa would do the same as Russia if it were in their interest to do so, and we would support them.

what a bunch of hypocrites.

Has Russia killed anybody, fired any missles, been involved in any actual action agains either citizens or military.
I have not heard that they have, so they should not yet be condemned.

[South Pender]

Has Russia killed anybody, fired any missles, been involved in any actual action agains either citizens or military.
I have not heard that they have, so they should not yet be condemned.

The sending of military troops into another sovereign country is against all international rules and deserves (and is getting) widespread condemnation from democracies around the world. Would you sit idly by if Russia (or even the US) sent armed forces into Vancouver and prevented us from carrying out certain functions? That's what the Russians have done in Crimea--in particular Sevastopol. This is nothing less than an armed invasion aimed at destabilizing the government of Ukraine. It may well lead to war in central Europe. And, yes, Russia has been involved in actual action against citizens--basically crippling Ukrainian action in a part of its own country.

I don't think there's much doubt about that. My point in posting was to explore opinions about whether this should be considered a reason to keep a country's athletes away from the Paralympics.

[KnowItAll]

Has Russia killed anybody, fired any missles, been involved in any actual action agains either citizens or military.
I have not heard that they have, so they should not yet be condemned.

The sending of military troops into another sovereign country is against all international rules and deserves (and is getting) widespread condemnation from democracies around the world. Would you sit idly by if Russia (or even the US) sent armed forces into Vancouver and prevented us from carrying out certain functions? That's what the Russians have done in Crimea--in particular Sevastopol. This is nothing less than an armed invasion aimed at destabilizing the government of Ukraine. It may well lead to war in central Europe. And, yes, Russia has been involved in actual action against citizens--basically crippling Ukrainian action in a part of its own country.

I don't think there's much doubt about that. My point in posting was to explore opinions about whether this should be considered a reason to keep a country's athletes away from the Paralympics.

I tried in my mind to draw comparison to Canada, but it was just too absurd. However, usa has sent their troops in to other countries and we have not condemned them. At least not till after the fact, after people were killed.

If Russia does nothing more than they have done, no harm, no foul. They have as much right to look out for their interests as USA does. At least they are next door. They have a lot more justifiable reason than the USA ever has to put military presence half way round the world.

[South Pender]

I tried in my mind to draw comparison to Canada, but it was just too absurd. However, usa has sent their troops in to other countries and we have not condemned them. At least not till after the fact, after people were killed.

I'm not sure what you had in mind regarding the US sending troops into another country, but I don't recall them doing this without UN support. In other words, I don't think they have just marched into a sovereign country without a lot of prior consultation and international support. This Russian occupation of Crimea is very different and couldn't possibly get international support. There's a big difference between the two scenarios.

If Russia does nothing more than they have done, no harm, no foul. They have as much right to look out for their interests as USA does. At least they are next door. They have a lot more justifiable reason than the USA ever has to put military presence half way round the world.

Are you suggesting that invading a sovereign country is OK if it is your own country's interests? Hitler would certainly have agreed. The international community and the UN do not regard invasion of another country as "no harm, no foul." Instead, they (rightly) regard is as a violation of international law.

[Toppy Vann]

Has Russia killed anybody, fired any missles, been involved in any actual action agains either citizens or military.
I have not heard that they have, so they should not yet be condemned.

The sending of military troops into another sovereign country is against all international rules and deserves (and is getting) widespread condemnation from democracies around the world. Would you sit idly by if Russia (or even the US) sent armed forces into Vancouver and prevented us from carrying out certain functions? That's what the Russians have done in Crimea--in particular Sevastopol. This is nothing less than an armed invasion aimed at destabilizing the government of Ukraine. It may well lead to war in central Europe. And, yes, Russia has been involved in actual action against citizens--basically crippling Ukrainian action in a part of its own country.

I don't think there's much doubt about that. My point in posting was to explore opinions about whether this should be considered a reason to keep a country's athletes away from the Paralympics.

You are right about the invasion of other nation's sovereign soil but I always find it a bit rich when the USA feigns their anger.

This is a complex one - a lot of Russian gas fuels economic power house Germany and others. It is easy to condemn and isolate others where no one loses trade or can't heat their homes or fuel their factories but this one is not like that.

I doubt it will lead but it is very possible as this is serious. When giants fight pygmies like US- Iraq, no worries that it will break out further as their friends aren't coming to help. But even that has unforeseen consequences with the rise of the Taliban terrorists that that stuff has fuelled.

Since WW 2 no two truly HAVE nations have gone to war against each others as HAVE nations have something to lose. This one is dicey and Russia wants a Ukraine lap dog it can control and many in the east of the Ukraine remember Russians help in WW2 and also are ethnically tied to them and the old USSR. With the Ukraine such a huge supplier of the world's wheat this is a big issue as to control - west vs Russia. Maybe this is a good thing as there is too much wheat gluten and without all that us with gluten intolerance will see more choices for gluten free products.

We recalled our Ambassador already which Russia would just laugh at but would we bring these athletes home. Hmm. I would hope not.

[Sir Purrcival]

It would be a largely symbolic gesture but it is kind of sad that Russia which just spent a ton of money and time trying to build a new image via the Olympics has effectively thrown all that effort away.

I am reminded somewhat of the Falklands war. The military leadership in an effort to deflect attention away from their host of economic woes chose a convenient time to assert their sovereignty over the Malvinas (Falklands). I wonder if this might also be a subtext for Russia. They have just spent 50 billion dollars? euros? No one is going to be asking questions now about the post Olympic hangover now.

[TheLionKing]

I heard last light that Canada and the Ukraine is planning to participate in the Para-Olympics.

[WestCoastJoe]

Putin is solidifying his position with the Russian people.

I gather they are proud of the Sochi Olympics. Their patriotic spirit will be roused by the action in Crimea. They will be proud that they got away with it. The US will not intervene. Europe will not intervene. Germany does much trade with Russia. Oil and gas are needed.

Bye bye, Crimea, as part of Ukraine? Hello. Russia? [Putin says Russia has no intention of annexing Crimea]

Stop the Paralympics? I doubt it. It hurts the athletes too much.

In the short term, Putin is doing fine by the Russian people. With the rest of the world, not so much. But, Hey, George Bush looked into the man and saw his soul. And it was good. LOL

[TheLionKing]

The US are hypocrits. They have no qualms in invading other countries when it suits them.

[Sir Purrcival]

The US are hypocrits. They have no qualms in invading other countries when it suits them.

Yes, I'm afraid that most of the "super powers" or "stupor powers" have that talent down in spades.

If I were an athlete in such games, I confess I would be highly conflicted about participating. One the one hand, they only come 1 time every 4 years and for some athletes, this may be their only chance to participate in such an event. On the other hand, the Olympics is supposed to be about sportsmanship, dedication, universal brotherhood and any number of other warm fuzzy terms we use to convey that feeling of community. It is hard to get that loving feeling when you know the host country is currently engaged in hostile actions against a neighbour. It is like choosing not to be a guest in someone's house when you don't like what they doing. Sometimes the better course of action is to leave or just not go in the first place. Sucks that a sports event can get caught up in International politics.
I do know one thing, the IOC should probably not give the Olympics to Russia again for a long, long time. The two times they have hosted, there has been International turmoil in close proximity. First, Afghanistan, now the Ukraine. Not a very good track record (pun intended).

[TheLionKing]

USA, Canada and other nations boycotted the summer Olympics in Russia.

[South Pender]

Putin is solidifying his position with the Russian people.

I gather they are proud of the Sochi Olympics. Their patriotic spirit will be roused by the action in Crimea. They will be proud that they got away with it. The US will not intervene. Europe will not intervene. Germany does much trade with Russia. Oil and gas are needed.

I agree that we won't see military intervention over Crimea. However, if the US and Europe get on the same page on this, Russia can be damaged economically, and there's thinking in some circles that the Russian oligarchs will pressure Putin to step back. If he doesn't, Russia may find itself with an even-worse economy than it has now.

In some ways, it might be wise for Ukraine to give up Crimea. It once was basically a part of the Russia SSR and was annexed by the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 as a gift from Khrushchev. It's populated by mainly Russian sympathizers, and the new government in Kiev (or Kyiv as we're now seeing it spelled, along with a different pronunciation) might find building an autonomous and unified Ukraine easier without some of the Russian-leaning citizens in the East of the country, like those in Crimea.

[WestCoastJoe]

Putin is solidifying his position with the Russian people.

I gather they are proud of the Sochi Olympics. Their patriotic spirit will be roused by the action in Crimea. They will be proud that they got away with it. The US will not intervene. Europe will not intervene. Germany does much trade with Russia. Oil and gas are needed.

I agree that we won't see military intervention over Crimea. However, if the US and Europe get on the same page on this, Russia can be damaged economically, and there's thinking in some circles that the Russian oligarchs will pressure Putin to step back. If he doesn't, Russia may find itself with an even-worse economy than it has now.

In some ways, it might be wise for Ukraine to give up Crimea. It once was basically a part of the Russia SSR and was annexed by the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 as a gift from Khrushchev. It's populated by mainly Russian sympathizers, and the new government in Kiev (or Kyiv as we're now seeing it spelled, along with a different pronunciation) might find building an autonomous and unified Ukraine easier without some of the Russian-leaning citizens in the East of the country, like those in Crimea.

More discussion in this thread ...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27489

Putin says Russia has no intention of annexing Crimea.

Crimea is 58% Russian ethnicity.

By agreement Russia is allowed 25,000 troops in Crimea.

IMO sanctions will be minimal. Virtually business as usual.

The markets showed recovery today, after a down day yesterday.

[Coast Mountain Lion]

Just like to point out that Russia has continued to base a large number of troops in Crimea ever since the 1991 spilt. And do we want to discuss how many US troops have been in western Europe and the far east since WWII?

As for Harper and Baird, their only interest is only in pandering to Canadian voters of Ukrainian descent.