No New Baseball Hall of Fame Members for 2013

[cromartie]

Let's just agree to disagree about this, cromartie. Reasonable people can differ....

As long as you feel free to ignore two generations of amphetamine in every major league baseball clubhouse since 1960, in justifying your hypocrisy, Captain Renault, sure.

[South Pender]

Let's just agree to disagree about this, cromartie. Reasonable people can differ....

As long as you feel free to ignore two generations of amphetamine in every major league baseball clubhouse since 1960, in justifying your hypocrisy, Captain Renault, sure.

Only in your fevered dreams, Mr. O'Reilly....

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.theolympian.com/2012/12/05/2 ... -2004.html

IOC strips 4 medals from 2004 Athens Olympics
.................

As long as they have sports, they might as well have rules of play and behaviour, et cetera. And they might as well try to control modern chemicals that can give an advantage. It is a far from purrfect system.

Aside from chemicals, the refereeing and judging at the Olympics and other events can be biased and terribly unfair. The international politics of refereeing is a big turnoff.
..............

Sports play a huge part in our society. And that is not always a good thing. Kids sees huge athletes, built like superheroes, and undertake steroid programs of tbeir own. They see boorish, selfish behaviour by "superstars," and they dream of being in postition to emulate that kind of arrogance.

Not knocking sports altogether. Of course there are the good sides. Fitness. Achievement. Self-esteem. Role models. Et cetera ...

But kind of jaundiced against all the terrible role models out there. Self centered, arrogant, abusive athletes. Getting the headlines, while many of the better citizens are in the background.
.................

So in regard to Clemens and Bonds, I will lose no sleep, I will suffer no anguish if they do not enter Valhalla for baseball players.
................

There are many issues. Was O.J. Simpson removed from the Hall of Fame after his trials? I don't think so. Should he have been? What if the first murder trial had found him guilty? It seems nowadays there is little separation from a player's career and his "private" life. Going back in time, if it was found (as speculated) that Ty Cobb had killed a man should he be in the Hall of Fame? Maybe in time the glory associated with sports Halls of Fame will lessen and the athletic career can be separated from the private life. "OK, so and so was a great player, and now he is in jail. And he is still in the Hall of Fame." Is that a problem?

Should Harold Ballard be in the Hockey Hall of Fame and the CFL Hall of Fame?

Well since Halls of Fame also talk about character, and contributions to the game, and, hopefully, contributions to society, I would say the private life does matter.
..............

The owners? Well, how often do the people at the top pay the price for their transgressions? The athletes have to take the risks. They have their livelihoods at stake. Their emotions, their desperation, can rule their decisions.
............

I'm thinking if some of the glitz and glory comes off the world of sports (NHL fight between billionaire owners and millionaire players, idols busted for steroid use, et cetera), that is not a bad thing.
.........

Many issues, and sides to the issues ....

[TheLionKing]

Wow, stripping the medals after the fact. How long does the IOC keep the samples ?

[South Pender]

http://www.theolympian.com/2012/12/05/2 ... -2004.html

IOC strips 4 medals from 2004 Athens Olympics
.................

As long as they have sports, they might as well have rules of play and behaviour, et cetera. And they might as well try to control modern chemicals that can give an advantage. It is a far from purrfect system.

Aside from chemicals, the refereeing and judging at the Olympics and other events can be biased and terribly unfair. The international politics of refereeing is a big turnoff.
..............

Sports play a huge part in our society. And that is not always a good thing. Kids sees huge athletes, built like superheroes, and undertake steroid programs of tbeir own. They see boorish, selfish behaviour by "superstars," and they dream of being in postition to emulate that kind of arrogance.

Not knocking sports altogether. Of course there are the good sides. Fitness. Achievement. Self-esteem. Role models. Et cetera ...

But kind of jaundiced against all the terrible role models out there. Self centered, arrogant, abusive athletes. Getting the headlines, while many of the better citizens are in the background.
.................

So in regard to Clemens and Bonds, I will lose no sleep, I will suffer no anguish if they do not enter Valhalla for baseball players.
................

There are many issues. Was O.J. Simpson removed from the Hall of Fame after his trials? I don't think so. Should he have been? What if the first murder trial had found him guilty? It seems nowadays there is little separation from a player's career and his "private" life. Going back in time, if it was found (as speculated) that Ty Cobb had killed a man should he be in the Hall of Fame? Maybe in time the glory associated with sports Halls of Fame will lessen and the athletic career can be separated from the private life. "OK, so and so was a great player, and now he is in jail. And he is still in the Hall of Fame." Is that a problem?

Should Harold Ballard be in the Hockey Hall of Fame and the CFL Hall of Fame?

Well since Halls of Fame also talk about character, and contributions to the game, and, hopefully, contributions to society, I would say the private life does matter.
..............

The owners? Well, how often do the people at the top pay the price for their transgressions? The athletes have to take the risks. They have their livelihoods at stake. Their emotions, their desperation, can rule their decisions.
............

I'm thinking if some of the glitz and glory comes off the world of sports (NHL fight between billionaire owners and millionaire players, idols busted for steroid use, et cetera), that is not a bad thing.
.........

Many issues, and sides to the issues ....

True, and three criteria used by the Baseball Hall of Fame are: Character, Sportsmanship, and Integrity. Hard to see drug cheaters scoring adequately on these criteria--particularly character and integrity. Not only did they cheat, they lied about it.

Re OJ: he is still in the hall (and, as it happens, currently in jail on a 33-year sentence!), but Alan Eagleson "resigned" from the hockey HOF when it became clear he'd be expelled. It likely comes down to when the malfeasance took place--while engaged in the game or after--and whether it was related to the game. For OJ, it was, of course, long after and in no way related to the game, but for guys like Eagleson, Rose, and the most recent ones, it was all game-related.

[Toppy Vann]

Wow, stripping the medals after the fact. How long does the IOC keep the samples ?

I forget what I heard on that but apparently they are keeping these samples so that as future testing improves that they can go back and re-test and declare a new winner.

Someone was on the Armstrong case saying that but I don't recall who.

[sj-roc]

Indeed. Easy to hang the players out to dry by denying them HOF entry while conveniently forgetting that the owners, media and fans pretty much all looked the other way at the time. Perhaps it's more fitting just to have them inducted as a scarlet letter of sorts.

In addition, I wouldn't exactly call denying a few players entry to the HOF "hanging them out to dry." These guys did, after all, make millions of dollars as players and undoubtedly more than they would have had they not cheated and enhanced their performance that way. They've been rewarded financially, and denial into the HOF should, in my opinion, be seen as the price they paid for their decision to cheat.

Not talking about their wallets at all. I meant that phrase in the sense that other principals aside from players are having it both ways: looking the other way while they played on PEDs, and now judging them after the fact. Where was that judgment 15 years ago as Cro has pointed out? The players were good enough to derive entertainment/profit/whatever from back in the day, but now they're not good enough for the HOF.

"Truth... or dingers?"

"Dingers!"

[video][/video]

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=413098

The vote results upcoming ...

If it wasn't for the question of performance enhancing drugs, Bonds and Clemens would be shoo ins for the Hall of Fame. Astounding stats.

Bonds, baseball's only seven-time Most Valuable Player, and Clemens, the only seven-time Cy Young Award winner.

PEDs can disqualify a player from the Hall. And so can gambling, as with Pete Rose. If steroids had not come along, I could have seen a day when baseball forgave Pete Rose for gambling, and voted him into the Hall of Fame. I can't see that now, because that might suggest that PEDs could be forgiven also. Just IMO ...

In regard to PEDs, one can only guess what the future holds in store for humanity.

NEW YORK -- Judgment day has arrived for Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa to find out their Hall of Fame fates.

With the cloud of steroids shrouding many candidacies, baseball writers may fail for the only the second time in more than four decades to elect anyone to the Hall.

About 600 people are eligible to vote in the BBWAA election, all members of the organization for 10 consecutive years at any point. Results were to be announced at 2 p.m. EST Wednesday, with the focus on first-time eligibles that include Bonds, baseball's only seven-time Most Valuable Player, and Clemens, the only seven-time Cy Young Award winner.

Since 1965, the only years the writers didn't elect a candidate were when Yogi Berra topped the 1971 vote by appearing on 67 per cent of the ballots cast and when Phil Niekro headed the 1996 ballot at 68 per cent. Both were chosen the following years when they achieved the 75 per cent necessary for election.

"It really would be a shame, especially since the other people going in this year are not among the living, which will make for a rather strange ceremony," said the San Francisco Chronicle's Susan Slusser, president of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

Three inductees were chosen last month by the 16-member panel considering individuals from the era before integration in 1946: Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert, umpire Hank O'Day and barehanded catcher Deacon White. They will be enshrined during a ceremony at Cooperstown on July 28.

Also on the ballot for the first time are Sosa and Mike Piazza, power hitters whose statistics have been questioned because of the Steroids Era, and Craig Biggio, 20th on the career list with 3,060 hits -- all for the Houston Astros. Curt Schilling, 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in post-season play, is another ballot rookie.

The Hall was prepared to hold a news conference Thursday with any electees. Or to not have one.

Biggio wasn't sure whether the controversy over this year's ballot would keep all candidates out.

"All I know is that for this organization I did everything they ever asked me to do and I'm proud about it, so hopefully, the writers feel strongly, they liked what they saw, and we'll see what happens," Biggio said on Nov. 28, the day the ballot was announced.

Jane Forbes Clark, the Hall's chairman, said last year she was not troubled by voters weighing how to evaluate players in the era of performance-enhancing drugs.

"I think the museum is very comfortable with the decisions that the baseball writers make," she said. "And so it's not a bad debate by any means."

Bonds has denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs and was convicted of one count of obstruction of justice for giving an evasive answer in 2003 to a grand jury investigating PEDs. Clemens was acquitted of perjury charges stemming from congressional testimony during which he denied using PEDs.

Sosa, who finished with 609 home runs, was among those who tested positive in MLB's 2003 anonymous survey, The New York Times reported in 2009. He told a congressional committee in 2005 that he never took illegal performance-enhancing drugs.

The BBWAA election rules say "voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

"Steroid or HGH use is cheating, plain and simple," ESPN.com's Wallace Matthews wrote. "And by definition, cheaters lack integrity, sportsmanship and character. Strike one, strike two, strike three."

Several holdovers from last year remain on the 37-player ballot, with top candidates including Jack Morris (67 per cent), Jeff Bagwell (56 per cent), Lee Smith (51 per cent) and Tim Raines (49 per cent).

When The Associated Press surveyed 112 eligible voters in late November, Bonds received 45 per cent support among voters who expressed an opinion, Clemens 43 per cent and Sosa 18 per cent. The Baseball Think Factory website compiled votes by writers who made their opinions public and with 159 ballots had everyone falling short. Biggio was at 69 per cent, followed by Morris (63), Bagwell (61), Raines (61), Piazza (60), Bonds (43) and Clemens (43).

Morris finished second last year when Barry Larkin was elected and is in his 14th and next-to-last year of eligibility. He could become the player with the highest-percentage of the vote who is not in the Hall, a mark currently held by Gil Hodges at 63 per cent in 1983.

Several players who fell just short in the BBWAA balloting later were elected by either the Veterans Committee or Old-Timers' Committee: Nellie Fox (74.7 per cent on the 1985 BBWAA ballot), Jim Bunning (74.2 per cent in 1988), Orlando Cepeda (73.6 per cent in 1994) and Frank Chance (72.5 per cent in 1945).

Ace of three World Series winners, Morris finished with 254 victories and was the winningest pitcher of the 1980s. His 3.90 ERA, however, is higher than that of any Hall of Famer. Morris will be joined on next year's ballot by Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine, both 300-game winners.

If no one is elected this year, there could be a logjam in 2014. Voters may select up to 10 players.

The only certainty is the Hall is pleased with the writers' process.

"While the BBWAA does the actual voting, it only does so at the request of the Hall of Fame," said the Los Angeles Times' Bill Shaikin, the organization's past president. "If the Hall of Fame is troubled, certainly the Hall could make alternate arrangements."

[WestCoastJoe]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/09/no ... ?hpt=hp_t2

No new Baseball Hall of Fame members this year

There will be no new entries in the National Baseball Hall of Fame for 2013, the hall's president announced Wednesday.

This is only the eighth time that's happened in the history of the Hall of Fame.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb

Biggio tops vote but no one elected to Hall

Former Astros star finishes 39 votes shy, trailed by Morris, Bagwell, Piazza

By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com | 01/09/13 2:00 PM ET

President of the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum Jeff Idelson announces that no players have been elected from the 2013 Hall of Fame ballot

NEW YORK -- The most highly debated election for entry into the National Baseball Hall of Fame ended Wednesday without a new inductee.

For the first time since 1996, eligible members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America did not vote in a single player from a ballot of 37 candidates that was deep and controversial.

Craig Biggio was the leading vote-getter, having been named on 68.2 percent of the ballots, but fell 39 votes shy of election as received 388 votes among the 569 ballots that were cast. He was followed by Jack Morris (67.7 percent), Jeff Bagwell (59.6) and Mike Piazza (57.8).

The ballot was loaded with a number of first-time-eligible players whose careers spanned a period of Major League Baseball that some believe was clouded by the use of performance-enhancing drugs:

• Barry Bonds, the all-time home run leader with 762.

• Roger Clemens, a storied right-hander with 354 wins.

• Biggio, a second baseman with 3,060 hits.

• Sammy Sosa, the only slugger to bash more than 60 homers in three different seasons and who totaled 609 in his career.

• Piazza, who hit 396 of his 427 homers as a catcher -- the most of any player at that position in Major League history.

None of them made it in.

Morris, a starter who dominated the American League during the 1980s, didn't make it, either, on his 14th try. So long as they maintain at least five percent of the ballots cast, players have 15 years on the ballot before they are no longer eligible to be elected by the BBWAA.

As all Baseball Hall of Fame votes are conducted, a candidate needed to be named on at least 75 percent of the ballots to be elected. BBWAA members with 10 consecutive years or more of covering the sport were eligible to vote and they could name as many as 10 players on their ballots.

Clemens and Bonds finished eighth and ninth, respectively, Clemens receiving 37.6 percent and Bonds 36.2. Tim Raines (52.2), Lee Smith (47.8), Curt Schilling (38.8), Edgar Martinez (35.9) and Alan Trammell (33.6) were among the remainder of the runners-up. Sosa received 12.5 percent.

There will still be an induction ceremony in Cooperstown, N.Y., on July 28. Longtime Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert, turn-of-the-20th-century umpire Hank O'Day and 19th-century catcher Deacon White were elected to the Hall last month by the Pre-Integration Committee, and their memories and heirs will be honored on that date. All three are deceased.

Tom Cheek, who called the first 4,306 regular-season games and 41 postseason games in Blue Jays history, will receive the Ford C. Frick Award for "major contributions to baseball" posthumously on July 27 during a ceremony at Doubleday Field. He is survived by his wife, Shirley, who is expected to be in Cooperstown to accept the award.

Paul Hagen of MLB.com will be presented the J.G. Taylor Spink Award for "meritorious contributions to baseball writing" and will also be honored at Doubleday Field that day.

Phil Niekro, Tony Perez and Don Sutton split the vote in 1996, with Niekro leading at 68.3 percent. All three eventually attained enshrinement. Two players and two managers, including Jim Bunning and Earl Weaver, were elected that year by a Veterans Committee.

This was the eighth time no one was elected by the writers since voting by the BBWAA began in 1936, Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson said in making the announcement.

Morris, who had 254 career wins during his 18-year career -- an American League-best 162 of them in the 1980s -- topped a list of returnees that included, among others, Bagwell, Smith, Raines, Trammell, Martinez and Dale Murphy, the center fielder who finished his 15-year tenure on the writers' ballot without success.

Among the first-timers, Biggio seems to be on a clear course toward a plaque, because 3,000 hits is an almost-certain ticket to the hallowed Hall. Of the 26 other retired players who amassed 3,000 or more hits, only two are not in the Hall, and both have extenuating circumstances. Rafael Palmeiro had 3,020 hits and 569 homers but was suspended for a positive steroid test in 2005, his last season in the Major Leagues. Pete Rose, the all-time leader with 4,256 hits, is banned from baseball because of gambling and is not eligible to be included on Hall of Fame ballots.

Biggio played 20 seasons, all for the Astros. He batted .281 as a catcher, outfielder and second baseman; he played 1,989 of his 2,850 games at second base.

Bonds played 22 seasons for the Pirates and Giants and holds the all-time records for homers in a career (762) and a single season (73), plus walks (2,558) and intentional walks (688). He is sixth all-time with a .444 on-base percentage, sixth with a .607 slugging percentage and fourth with a 1.051 OPS, which combines on-base and slugging percentages. Using the metrics of today, Bonds is third in overall WAR (Wins Above Replacement) behind Babe Ruth and Cy Young and third in offensive WAR behind Ruth and Ty Cobb. He won the National League MVP Award seven times, including three times before 1998, the demarcation line for when many believe steroid use in baseball entered its peak.

Clemens, who pitched for the Red Sox, Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros during a 24-year career, is ninth in career victories, one shy of Greg Maddux, the pitcher with the most wins in their era with 355. Clemens is third all-time with 4,672 strikeouts, behind Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson. His career WAR ranks eighth for all players and third among pitchers behind Young and Walter Johnson, the pitchers with the most wins in history. Clemens won the AL MVP Award and the Cy Young Award in 1986 for the Red Sox. He captured the Cy Young Award seven times, six of them in the AL.

Sosa hit 66 homers for the Cubs in 1998, the year of the feverish home run race with Mark McGwire to break Roger Maris' record of 61, set in 1961. McGwire finished with 70, a record that was broken three years later by Bonds. During that '98 season, Sosa led the National League with 158 RBIs and was named the NL's MVP. His home run hitting didn't end there. Sosa hit 63 in 1999, 64 in 2001 and led the league with 50 in 2000 and 49 in 2002. During that five-year period from 1998-2002, Sosa hit 292 homers.

Piazza may be the greatest offensive catcher in baseball history, hitting the most home runs of any backstop to go along with a .308 lifetime batting average, 1,335 RBIs, and a .922 OPS, the last mark also tops among catchers. The MVP of the 1996 All-Star Game in Philadelphia was a 12-time All-Star and 10-time Silver Slugger Award winner, and won Rookie of the Year honors with the Dodgers in 1993.

Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent are to be among the first-timers on next year's ballot.

[TheLionKing]

The voters got it right this time.

[Robbie]

Alex Rodriguez has been suspended through the end of the 2014 season for using and possessing testosterone and human-growth hormone.

After he retires, I wonder if he will immediately be disqualified for the Baseball Hall of Fame as well.

[Sir Purrcival]

Frankly, I never understood the holier than thou attitude with steroids. They do nothing to improve hand eye coordination, or pitch location, the two most critical traits of hitters and pitchers respectively. The hubub over steroids is nothing more than baby boomer hand wringing over the "sanctity" of their game, a game full of alcoholics who walked into day games after night games hopped up on amphetamines and other uppers.

I have to go in the disagree column as well. Batting is only one component of the game. Setting aside that part of it, there are other issues. Running speed, throwing arm strength.
Think about trying to chase down a fly ball in the outfield, or throwing a ball to catch a base stealer or as in the case of Clemons, pitch speed. You don't think enhanced abilities in these areas impact on a players ability to make plays? They absolutely do. They maybe be gifted athletes already but isn't it interesting that many of the biggest names in Baseball over the last 20 years have been linked to steroid use. If these players didn't think that steroids gave them an additional edge, they wouldn't take them would they. There would be no point, at lot less risk and a lot less cost for not taking something that doesn't make a difference anyway.

[TheLionKing]

Alex Rodriguez has been suspended through the end of the 2014 season for using and possessing testosterone and human-growth hormone.

After he retires, I wonder if he will immediately be disqualified for the Baseball Hall of Fame as well.

I hope so.