N.F.L. Ignores Deflategate Science at Patriots’ Expense

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cromartie
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Tighthead wrote:Doesn't matter if it had no effect on the game, in my opinion. Cheating on something like this can't be tolerated.

Fines mean nothing, draft picks can hurt. I think a one year suspension like with Sean Payton is appropriate, starting as soon as possible (assuming this all proves true).

Does anyone have faith in Goodell to do the right thing? No owner is tighter with him then Kraft, except perhaps O'Mara.
Jesus. People cry about everything in this day and age.

PSI differences in a football are, at most, the football equivalent of a team watering down its infield when a speedy opponent comes to town in baseball.

Taping a team's walkthrough is the baseball equivalent of sign stealing in baseball (or football, I suppose).

They've gone on for over a century. No one actually gives a great goddamn.

Save the angst for something substantive, like deliberate attempts to injure.
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B.C.FAN
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cromartie wrote:
Jesus. People cry about everything in this day and age.

PSI differences in a football are, at most, the football equivalent of a team watering down its infield when a speedy opponent comes to town in baseball.

Taping a team's walkthrough is the baseball equivalent of sign stealing in baseball (or football, I suppose).

They've gone on for over a century. No one actually gives a great goddamn.

Save the angst for something substantive, like deliberate attempts to injure.
:whs: Obviously, some people care but I don't know why. I think some people just don't like Belichick and are looking for any reason to reinforce their beliefs. Football coaches and players spend their careers studying the opposition's tendencies and trying to gain any advantage. Stealing signals, scuffing balls and watering the infield are not big deals in baseball. That type of behaviour doesn't bother me in football either.
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cromartie
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B.C.FAN wrote:
cromartie wrote:
Jesus. People cry about everything in this day and age.

PSI differences in a football are, at most, the football equivalent of a team watering down its infield when a speedy opponent comes to town in baseball.

Taping a team's walkthrough is the baseball equivalent of sign stealing in baseball (or football, I suppose).

They've gone on for over a century. No one actually gives a great goddamn.

Save the angst for something substantive, like deliberate attempts to injure.
:whs: Obviously, some people care but I don't know why. I think some people just don't like Belichick and are looking for any reason to reinforce their beliefs. Football coaches and players spend their careers studying the opposition's tendencies and trying to gain any advantage. Stealing signals, scuffing balls and watering the infield are not big deals in baseball. That type of behaviour doesn't bother me in football either.
The NFL has a clear line on where it thinks ball manipulation does and doesn't impact the game. Offenses get to handle their own balls prior to the start of a game. kickers do not, hence the special K balls that are used, with a different chain of custody. Again, think about how balls were handled during the 1977 Western Final and that makes sense.
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WestCoastJoe
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It is getting beaten to death. Huge press conference. Brady getting grilled with the most detailed, probing, suspicious questions.

Brady says he did not notice the pressure difference.

An official, or a player, would not notice a difference, unless one squeezed the footballs, with an experienced view.

But we know that cheating in sports does go on. Doctor a baseball bat. Doctor a baseball. Treat hockey pucks a certain way (not cold enough). Basketball rims. Steroids. Loaded dice in gambling. Cardsharps. Bribes. On and on ...

Brady has perspective. He cracks some jokes.
.......

A team on offence uses its own footballs. I see no issue in such a case.

But this casts doubt on Brady and Belichick. Is it possible that Brady wanted the footballs slightly deflated? God forbid. Because he has now publicly said over and over that he never asked for any such adjustment (in different words). He thinks no one in the organization knew anything about this. Apparently he has since asked the equipment staff if they did anything.

No physicist here. No weather expert here. So, is it possible, in cold, wet weather, that the footballs could lose that amount of pressure, sitting on the sidelines? One would think not.

Is it possible that constant pileups, with the ball at the bottom, could cause such deflation? Apparently the Colts' footballs did not show such deflation.

For the cheaters, I fully expect ideas have been explored in terms of how to achieve an effect, without getting caught. Anybody here cheat at cards? Ha ha ...

Is it possible that a big guy like Gronkowski could squeeze the footballs and cause this amount of deflation?

As a fan of Brady, I hope that nothing was done on his behalf (it is known that he likes a slightly deflated football).

I think the prescribed pressure should not matter for an offence, using its own footballs. But there are protocols.

It sounds like football custody protocols are insufficient in the NFL. The league was not proactive in preventing this kind of blowup. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Have some black hats on staff. And now the NFL has another huge public relations problem.

Without any protocols, imagine a coach sending out a doctored football, when the opposing team is trying for a game winning field goal.
........

I have great admiration for Brady. But ... Pro sports. Who knows what demons reside within any pro athlete? Superstitions. Rationalize to yourself ... What difference does it make if our footballs are a little deflated? An athlete might be more comfortable on a cold day with a doctored football. Equipment guys know. Players know. A little air is let out. By someone. Busted. By an opponent, on a technicality. Who the f*** cares? Well, it is a technicality.

Do I suspect this? Dunno at this time. What other reason could there be, that has not surfaced yet? Which player on the Patriots has a strong interest in the level of air pressure in his offensive footballs? Which player has the loyalty of the equipment staff? Gawd ... I hope not. I truly do. On a technicality. The equipment guys know full well what the athlete wants and needs. No discussion needed. Can some scientific, innocent reason be found for the deflations?

People have different views. All views are welcome.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/-bill-beli ... 04102.html

Excerpt ...
The short of it is this: the Patriots spent the week running all sorts of tests on footballs, simulating how it worked last Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts.

What they found was that the way the Patriots prepare the outside surface of their footballs – scrubbing, rubbing, etc. – actually raises the pound per inch levels inside the ball. Once that process ends and the ball reaches an equilibrium, the ball that was once legally measured to be 12.5 psi naturally drops to the illegal level of 11.5. Throw in the climatic differences between a room temperature locker room and a cold playing surface, and it's 1.5 psi or enough to cause this whole kerfuffle.

And that's before Belichick noted variances in measuring gauges and footballs themselves, which because they are made of animal skin, probably should never even be measured to such precise levels.

That's how it happened, Belichick said. That's it.

Why didn't the Colts' footballs also lose pressure? Perhaps they don't prepare the outside of the football the same way and thus don't cause the same internal reaction, he suggested, although he noted he has no idea how Indy does things. He made Indy's measurements irrelevant.
Possible? I think so.

Belichick is a magnet for distrust. He earned that. And he is successful. Lots of haters for that, and for the way he presents himself.

Something that the NFL has not looked at, it seems clear: football prep after the pressure test and the official approval. Scrubbing. Treating. Whatever.

I personally do not believe Belichick had anything to do with the air pressure of the footballs.

Aside from an innocent explanation, which Belichick tried on for the press, is it possible that an equipment guy might have, might have, after the approval by the official, lowered the pressure to the minimum, prior to any scuffing, scrubbing, et cetera? Dunno if that happened. Could an equipment guy who is loyal to Brady, and knows Brady likes the footballs to be at the minimum level of air pressure, bring himself to do that? Of course Brady would have to be unhinged to ask for that. And the equipment guy would have to be unhinged also. Is it possible there might be an unspoken understanding? Is an equipment guy allowed to lower the pressure to the minimum after the official OKs them? Not possible, whether or not that is explicit in the protocol.

Do the officials demand that each ball be at precisely the same air pressure? They would have to. Maximum? Middle? ... Do they allow some to be at the max, and some to be at the minimum? I doubt it.

Tired of this discussion? Well, the issue is not going away. And I do not think anyone can say it is much to do about nothing. Not anymore, when it is front line news in print and on television.
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Sir Purrcival
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As much as I think this is a trivial issue, it does seem that some players do have preferences in regards to the football and issues pertaining to it's feel and performance. It was in fact Brady and Peyton Manning that lobbied hard to change the rules the around footballs and to allow teams to provide their own equipment. Soooo, if they the players wanted this change, then in fact teams should be responsible to ensure that the equipment meets specification. They lobbied for it, they need to take responsibility for it and the punishments for transgressions should be severe. (Game forfeiture for example). I think it would be quite reasonable conversely to offer teams a choice. Either the league is responsible for the balls that they use or the team is for a given game. If they choose the latter then they are in wholly responsible for making sure that the ball is within specification. Failure in that regard should invoke a predetermined penalty, no exceptions. Then let us see just how important those minor differences in ball pressure and feel are. Forfeiture would promote a high degree of compliance IMO.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2343 ... =editorial

Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots, ups the ante.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

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B.C.FAN
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If the NFL would simply invoke the CFL procedure of having league ball boys handle all the balls once they've been tested, this whole conspiracy nonsense could go away.
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Toppy Vann
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WestCoastJoe wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2343 ... =editorial

Robert Kraft, owner of the Patriots, ups the ante.
Pretty bold statement for a HC and a team that under his ownership has had its share of issues with ah what do we call it ... cheating?

I'd not be daring the NFL to come down like that given who my HC is...and his record.

Gian Ghomeshi defence??? Deny until it brings out the accusers. That didn't work well for him.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... 90-seconds
Report: Patriots employee was alone with footballs for 90 seconds

By John Breech | CBSSports.com

January 27, 2015 2:13 pm ET

If a Patriots locker room attendant did deflate any footballs before the AFC Championship Game, it looks like he only had 90 seconds to do it.

According to ProFootballTalk.com, the locker room attendant -- who was named a "strong person of interest" on Monday -- left the officials locker room before the title game with 24 footballs that had been approved for play.

Before taking the balls to the field though, the attendant made a brief stop in a stadium bathroom, where he spent 90 seconds. An NFL source told PFT that the league is aware of the bathroom timeframe because surveillance video exists showing the man carrying the footballs into the bathroom with him.

So now the question for the NFL becomes: Was the attendant actually going to the bathroom or was he deflating footballs?

Deflating 11 footballs in 90 seconds might sound difficult, but it probably wouldn't be impossible, especially if this was something the attendant had done before.

A source told PFT that deflating 11 footballs in 90 seconds would be an "easy" thing to do.

It's also possible that he switched out footballs while in the bathroom -- but it's also possible that he did nothing at all. Keep in mind, everything's a theory at this point and the NFL is investigating any and all theories.

FoxSports.com reported on Monday that the locker room attendant was a "strong person of interest" because he appeared to be the only person who was alone with the footballs after they were approved for use in the game by the officiating crew.

The footballs were pumped to the appropriate pressure when they were taken out of the officials locker room.

If it turns out the Patriots didn't deflate any footballs, the NFL could have an issue on its hands and that issue starts with New England owner Robert Kraft. Kraft feels like the league is questioning the "integrity" and "reputation" of his team.

The Patriots owner said on Monday that he expects an apology from the NFL if the league finds no wrongdoing in Deflategate.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... attendant/
Report: NFL investigation has “zeroed in” on Patriots locker room attendant

Posted by Josh Alper on January 26, 2015, 3:34 PM EST

Bill Belichick Blinds NFL WIth Science On DeflategateGetty Images
Last week, the NFL released a statement saying they were continuing their investigation into under-inflated footballs used by the Patriots during their AFC Championship game victory over the Colts to determine if the deflation was “the result of deliberate action” by the Patriots.

Coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady both denied any knowledge of what happened and Belichick offered up an explanation via scientific experimentation on Saturday, but Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the league has “zeroed in” on a team employee in their investigation.

Per Glazer, the league has interviewed a Patriots locker room attendant who allegedly took footballs from the officials locker room after they had been inspected and approved “to another area on way to field” before the start of the game. There’s reportedly video of this attendant with the balls, although Glazer adds that the league’s investigators are “still gauging” if the attendant, called a “strong person of interest,” had anything to do with the deflation.

The Patriots are on their way to Arizona right now. If anyone’s betting on the first question Belichick gets asked after arrival, it would probably be unwise to bet on anything other than Glazer’s report.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... 0-seconds/
Can a bag of footballs be deflated in 90 seconds?

Posted by Mike Florio on January 27, 2015, 9:25 AM EST

460776304.0Getty Images
As the #DeflateGate controversy continues to overtake Super Bowl XLIX, the first tangible evidence other than footballs being underinflated (which the NFL has acknowledged) emerged Monday, when Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reported that a Patriots employee took a bag of football that had been inspected and approved by officials into a separate area. That individual has become, per Glazer’s report, a “serious person of interest” as to the question of how the footballs came to be underinflated.

As PFT reported last night, adding to Glazer’s bombshell, the separate area was a bathroom in which the employee spent approximately 90 seconds. The red state/blue state nature of the debate has caused those predisposed to assuming the Patriots are guilty to say it’s enough time to deflate the footballs. Those predisposed to assuming that this is a league- and/or media-driven witch hunt say the only leaking came from the guys urinary tract (or perhaps elsewhere).

Obviously, the report from Glazer shows an opportunity for foul play existed. And Glazer’s report became the first clear indication since this issue first arose of a chance by someone to do something to the “purrfect” footballs as hand-selected by quarterback Tom Brady to make them even more purrfect.

A separate question has emerged regarding whether a team employee should have even been taking the footballs on his own to the field without supervision. One source said it’s normal; another source believes it’s entirely abnormal. Regardless, Glazer’s report puts a Patriots employee in a room with a locking door alone with the footballs for, based on PFT’s addition to that report, approximately 90 seconds.

So can 12 (or in this case 11) footballs be deflated in that amount of time? One league source with extensive knowledge and experience in the NFL believes that 90 seconds provides enough time to do it — especially if the type of bag allowed the valves to be accessed without individually removing them. (The bag in the photo, for example, has a large zipper that when open permits quick access to the balls.)

The source called it as “easy” thing to do. “Needle in each ball for a couple of seconds,” the source said.

Indeed, if this is something that had been going on for some period of time, the employee would have developed a certain expertise in this regard, allowing him to do it quickly — which in turn would allow for the plausible argument to be made that there was no deflation but merely urination.

Is it conclusive evidence of tampering? Not without a camera in the bathroom or an admission from the employee. But it also becomes difficult to declare innocence, given that the contents of the surveillance video as first reported by Glazer reveal an employee of the Patriots taking the footballs into a place where, in theory, something could have been done to them.

That’s the most important thing to remember from Monday’s report. Whether it was 90 seconds or longer, whether it was the Patriots who surrendered the video or the NFL who found it, Glazer’s report shows an opportunity for tampering that had not previously been disclosed.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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If the employee did it, the question is why would he do it?

Once again, if ...

It is conceivable that the employee knows Brady likes a slightly deflated ball. Nothing need ever be verbalized in a conversation. The employee is ultra loyal to his team, and to Brady. The employee convinces himself that it is worth doing, for his own reasons of relevance.

Possible. Sure.

It seems unlikely that the balls deflated on their own, while those of the Colts did not.

If this scenario is true, then an employee just might have to "walk the plank."

The NFL is already going to have to tighten up its protocols for the handling of footballs.

Brady and Belichick? The Patriots are already an outlaw organization in the eyes of many. Belichick is already viewed in a poor light by many. Brady always seemed to be Mr. Clean Cut. If there is any evidence that his preference for a deflated football led to this event, then his reputation will suffer. It has already suffered.

My opinion: Belichick knew nothing of this. Brady? Who knows what was communicated in some vague manner? Brady did comment publicly how he likes a deflated football. That is dangerous enough. He commented how he likes it when Gronkowski pounds the ball into the turf after a touchdown. A ballboy will hear that kind of talk. Maybe, just maybe, a ballboy takes it upon himself to "get involved."

Worse case: Brady and the ballboy often talk, while Brady chooses the footballs. Brady makes his preference known. 13 pounds. 12 pounds. Little difference. But to change the pressure later? Yikes. That is somewhat demented. But weird stuff does happen. People make bad decisions.

If Brady ever talked with a ballboy about pressure in the football, that would be normal. If Brady expressed a preference for a slightly deflated football, that might be normal. But if such a conversation ever took place, and Brady knew this employee was in position to do something about it, Yikes. If a ballboy is found to have done it, people will want to know if Brady and the ballboy ever talked about air pressure in the football. So an employee on a very low pay scale just might take the heat. It could get more messy.

Maybe ...

Just IMO on a quiet day.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TheLionKing
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Another day, another "who done it"
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... n/1949135/
A breakdown of Brady's pact, according to a person who reviewed details of the deal, reveals that the total signing bonus for the five-year, $57 million contract is $30 million — which includes $3 million in new money and $27 million that was due to Brady from his previous deal that is converted into a signing bonus for salary cap accounting. The new agreement replaces the four-year, $72 million extension that took effect in 2011, one year after Brady signed it.
Sounds like more than $11,000,000 per year, give or take.

Meanwhile a ballboy makes what? How much per hour?

Hardly fair if a poor ballboy gets fired over this. But I do not recall ever hearing that life is fair.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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